We need a Hard Hitting Safety
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I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties.
I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good.
Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast.
I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year.
I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties.
I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good.
Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast.
I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year.
I may have to respectfully disagree with you on that. This may be the deepest year for impact SSs that I have seen in a lon, long time. Delmas, Moore and Chung could start from day one for half the teams in the league. Chip Vaughn may be a nice value pick in the 3rd round. He's a hitter and has a lot of upside. From day one he would be a better cover man then Jones ever was and he is a hitter also.
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A hard hitting safety can be a game changer! He can make wide outs scared and running backs tremble.
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That's cool man...that is what this time of year is all about.
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I like moore with our second! He is nasty! Especially if were able to get another first by trading BE or someone, and scoop up Maualuga.
My Dream Draft goes Maualuga, Orapko, Moore, Jennings!
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I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd.
The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning.
Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season).
Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety.
Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again.
I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd.
The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning.
Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season).
Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety.
Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again.
First off Stan, your wrong (IMHO) about the whole premise of this thread. Safeties hard hitting are the least important part of a football team. Safeties that can make make interceptions are a very important part of a football team. Massively important! Further safeties that can actually grab on and hold on as the last resort are also very important. NONE more important than a corner who is disruptive and shuts people down. Then again in the front seven, if you play a 4-3 two dominant pass rushers on especially ends in the front four make a D dominant. And if you play a 3-4 those ILB guys if they are run stuffers coupled with two OLB's who can do it all including crushing a QB (ie Pittsburgh) make for a good D
But none of this is as important than OFFENSE.............See all as opposed to popular opinion Offense wins FOOTBALL GAMES......Bill Belichick will never tell the herd this.......but he knows it and if he pronounces it.........well hell his secret ingredient just got demolished
All highly successful franchises always could do two things well PASS the BALL and RUN the BALL
Stan get with the program.......rich always got it and if this place listens and the Browns listen
well winning will be easy..........GO BROWNS
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
Zombo beat me to the punch with Thane Gash - he even had the name for a hard hitting safety.
When we first came back into the league I hated watching our safeties (and linebackers) bounce of of Corey Dillon and Jamal Lewis. and about every other physical back we faced.
I can remember this latest group of safeties being the group that were supposed to bring some enforcement to the defensive backfield.
besides hard hitting I want sure tackling.
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I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd.
The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning.
Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season).
Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety.
Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again.
First off Stan, your wrong (IMHO) about the whole premise of this thread. Safeties hard hitting are the least important part of a football team. Safeties that can make make interceptions are a very important part of a football team. Massively important! Further safeties that can actually grab on and hold on as the last resort are also very important. NONE more important than a corner who is disruptive and shuts people down. Then again in the front seven, if you play a 4-3 two dominant pass rushers on especially ends in the front four make a D dominant. And if you play a 3-4 those ILB guys if they are run stuffers coupled with two OLB's who can do it all including crushing a QB (ie Pittsburgh) make for a good D
But none of this is as important than OFFENSE.............See all as opposed to popular opinion Offense wins FOOTBALL GAMES......Bill Belichick will never tell the herd this.......but he knows it and if he pronounces it.........well hell his secret ingredient just got demolished
All highly successful franchises always could do two things well PASS the BALL and RUN the BALL
Stan get with the program.......rich always got it and if this place listens and the Browns listen
well winning will be easy..........GO BROWNS
First off Stan, your head is still upurass about the whole premise of this thread. Safeties hard hitting are the least important part of a football team. Safeties that can make make interceptions are a very important part of a football team. Massively important! Further safeties that can actually grab on and hold on as the last resort are also very important.
Ahhh ... the 'dime-a-dozen' guy surfaces.
Rich has been telling me for years how the safety position doesn't matter.
Did these guys (below) make their name by being ankle-grabbers and holding on for bigger tougher guys to assist them on tackles, or did they seperate the receiver or running back from the ball, causing turn-overs, alligator arms, and boosting the morale of all their teammates by making the 'Big Hit' game-in and game-out?
Eric Turner
Don Rogers
Carnell Lake
Bob Sanders
Troy Polly
Ed Reed
Sean Taylor
Mike Brown
Ronnie Lott
Jack Tatum
Todd Bell
David Fulcher
John Lynch
Steve Atwater
These guys had as much to do with run support than they did coverage. Many of these guys could also be labeled 'ball hawks' but basically they had great football instincts, played farther off the ball than line-backers, and "erased mistakes" all over the field, making their clubs better. That is the exact recipe needed for this program, and always has been.
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Stan, you get it. SS is one of the most important positions in a 3-4 defensive scheme. You have to have that man who can come up in the box and lay a hit on a guy. When you watch great defensive teams most have a thumper as a Safety for run support. When you stop the run you can make a team one dimentional.
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First off Stan, your head is still upurass about the whole premise of this thread. Safeties hard hitting are the least important part of a football team. Safeties that can make make interceptions are a very important part of a football team. Massively important! Further safeties that can actually grab on and hold on as the last resort are also very important.
Ahhh ... the 'dime-a-dozen' guy surfaces.
Rich has been telling me for years how the safety position doesn't matter.
Did these guys (below) make their name by being ankle-grabbers and holding on for bigger tougher guys to assist them on tackles, or did they seperate the receiver or running back from the ball, causing turn-overs, alligator arms, and boosting the morale of all their teammates by making the 'Big Hit' game-in and game-out?
Eric Turner
Don Rogers
Carnell Lake
Bob Sanders
Troy Polly
Ed Reed
Sean Taylor
Mike Brown
Ronnie Lott
Jack Tatum
Todd Bell
David Fulcher
John Lynch
Steve Atwater
These guys had as much to do with run support than they did coverage. Many of these guys could also be labeled 'ball hawks' but basically they had great football instincts, played farther off the ball than line-backers, and "erased mistakes" all over the field, making their clubs better. That is the exact recipe needed for this program, and always has been.
Ahhh ... the 'dime-a-dozen' guy surfaces.
Rich has been telling me for years how the safety position doesn't matter.
Did these guys (below) make their name by being ankle-grabbers and holding on for bigger tougher guys to assist them on tackles, or did they seperate the receiver or running back from the ball, causing turn-overs, alligator arms, and boosting the morale of all their teammates by making the 'Big Hit' game-in and game-out?
Eric Turner
Don Rogers
Carnell Lake
Bob Sanders
Troy Polly
Ed Reed
Sean Taylor
Mike Brown
Ronnie Lott
Jack Tatum
Todd Bell
David Fulcher
John Lynch
Steve Atwater
These guys had as much to do with run support than they did coverage. Many of these guys could also be labeled 'ball hawks' but basically they had great football instincts, played farther off the ball than line-backers, and "erased mistakes" all over the field, making their clubs better. That is the exact recipe needed for this program, and always has been.
I LOVE that list - where have I seen it before? Just kidding - GOOD stuff in a great thread. Teams deep in the playoffs in the last few years have been there via BIG-PLAY guys like Bob Sanders, Ed Reed and Pollyneedsahaircut. Didn't Polly score the last TD on Baltimore? Taylor Mays LOOKED like alot of guys on that list - I was stunned and bummed when I saw he went back to USC for another year. MEN don't need to play against boys when they can play against MEN. Mays wants another year of playing with boys and all I can say to that is GOOSEFRABBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Tom F. (Like Skippy says, we need to get back to playing kill the guy with the ball. It's alot more attractive than watch us chase our tails)
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Here are highlight reels of some of the top safeties in this year's draft.
If you click on the prospect's name, you'll get a scouting report on the prospect. And if you click on the title of the clip, a larger, higher quality copy will open up in a new tab/window.
Louis Delmas, #9, Western Michigan
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I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties.
I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good.
Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast.
I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year.
I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties.
I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good.
Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast.
I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year.
Wait a minute.
My eyes must deceive me.
Is this ballpeen actually taking into account players that will be available next year to influence who we should pick in this year's draft?
I'm pretty sure I remember Mr. Peen, just a few days ago, espousing the idea that you should NOT take into account next year's available players when considering who/what to select this year.
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I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties.
I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good.
Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast.
I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year.
Wait a minute.
My eyes must deceive me.
Is this ballpeen actually taking into account players that will be available next year to influence who we should pick in this year's draft?
I'm pretty sure I remember Mr. Peen, just a few days ago, espousing the idea that you should NOT take into account next year's available players when considering who/what to select this year.
Wait a minute.
My eyes must deceive me.
Is this ballpeen actually taking into account players that will be available next year to influence who we should pick in this year's draft?
I'm pretty sure I remember Mr. Peen, just a few days ago, espousing the idea that you should NOT take into account next year's available players when considering who/what to select this year.
Personally, I think this is a very good draft at the Strong Safety position.
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Great post Aloysius. Thanks a lot for the video's and scouting reports ... I will try to make some time to go through them all tomorrow. Excellent piece!
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Wait a minute.
My eyes must deceive me.
Is this ballpeen actually taking into account players that will be available next year to influence who we should pick in this year's draft?
I'm pretty sure I remember Mr. Peen, just a few days ago, espousing the idea that you should NOT take into account next year's available players when considering who/what to select this year.
Personally, I think this is a very good draft at the Strong Safety position.
Personally, I think this is a very good draft at the Strong Safety position.
I disagree.
One of the things to take into account is that the top safety prospects are usually combo guys: physical enough to play in the box but also rangy enough to play centerfield. Other than Louis Delmas, there aren't any guys like that in this year's draft.
There are lot of pure strong safeties - guys who are either unproven or have deficient cover skills - but none talented enough to warrant serious first round consideration. Because of that, there may be a run on safeties in the second round, but how many of them actually deserve to go that high? Chung may be the best of the bunch, but I think even he's a slight reach talent-wise at #50.
If we didn't have a huge need at safety, I'd be all for taking a mid-Day Two flier on a guy like Courtney Greene (started off the season disastrously bad, then turned things around) or Stephen Hodge (tremendous hitter but wasn't really asked to play in coverage). But with a giant hole at strong safety, I'm not sure we can afford to go in that direction.
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2010. Berry or Mays. I don't even care which. Berry may be more polished and a better defender against the pass but I love Mays freakish size and speed.
I think either is a no brainer in 2010....The only problem is I'm thinking with the awful schedule the Browns play, we could be 7-9 or better and won't be in the running to grab either one of these guys
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I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd.
The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning.
Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season).
Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety.
Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again.
I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd.
The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning.
Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season).
Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety.
Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again.
Glad you mentioned Stevon Moore, Stan.
For my money, I'd love to have had two Stevon Moore's rather than one Stevon Moore and one E Rock.
E Rock had one great year - not be be brushed aside - but spent most of his career making big hits AFTEER the receiver made the catch. Overrated in my book.
He met a tragic end.
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Personally, I think this is a very good draft at the Strong Safety position.
I disagree.
One of the things to take into account is that the top safety prospects are usually combo guys: physical enough to play in the box but also rangy enough to play centerfield. Other than Louis Delmas, there aren't any guys like that in this year's draft.
There are lot of pure strong safeties - guys who are either unproven or have deficient cover skills - but none talented enough to warrant serious first round consideration. Because of that, there may be a run on safeties in the second round, but how many of them actually deserve to go that high? Chung may be the best of the bunch, but I think even he's a slight reach talent-wise at #50.
If we didn't have a huge need at safety, I'd be all for taking a mid-Day Two flier on a guy like Courtney Greene (started off the season disastrously bad, then turned things around) or Stephen Hodge (tremendous hitter but wasn't really asked to play in coverage). But with a giant hole at strong safety, I'm not sure we can afford to go in that direction.
Aloysius said:
I disagree.One of the things to take into account is that the top safety prospects are usually combo guys: physical enough to play in the box but also rangy enough to play centerfield. Other than Louis Delmas, there aren't any guys like that in this year's draft.
There are lot of pure strong safeties - guys who are either unproven or have deficient cover skills - but none talented enough to warrant serious first round consideration. Because of that, there may be a run on safeties in the second round, but how many of them actually deserve to go that high? Chung may be the best of the bunch, but I think even he's a slight reach talent-wise at #50.
If we didn't have a huge need at safety, I'd be all for taking a mid-Day Two flier on a guy like Courtney Greene (started off the season disastrously bad, then turned things around) or Stephen Hodge (tremendous hitter but wasn't really asked to play in coverage). But with a giant hole at strong safety, I'm not sure we can afford to go in that direction.
So, what you are saying is there is, except for Delmas, a whole bunch of Sean Jones's available in the second round. But, they are healthy and hit harder. Steuber's analysis of Moore says he has hard hitting tackling ability and he is very good defending in coverage. Never could accuse Sean Jones of being a good cover man. Chung and Vaughn are weak in coverage, but that doesn't mean they can't cover, they didn't have to in college. They played in the box or dropped into the middle in zone coverage. Neither of their teams played a lot of cover 2.
This draft doesn't have a Sean Taylor or Reed but it has 4 or 5 very solid guys that could step right in as a starter for us and many other teams and grow into stars in this league. As much negative as you can find there is a whole lot of positive about these guys.
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