Worst Case Scenario
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Is there any actual evidence it was Haslam's pick?
Of course not. Just internet bullshit.
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Part of a worst-case scenario might be Danny Shelton out for the season which I assume is internet bullshit.
WSS
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Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
I like your statement & especially the 2 sentences I highlighted. Johnny & Pettine have both shown me they share the qualities of pride & determination. I have a lot of faith in both as those 2 qualities are either there or they aren't. Without them, you're very limited. With them, the sky's the limit.
Mike
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As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
Another very well stated post. In a rather short statement, you've said it all.
Thank you!
Mike
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4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
throwing a records prediction in with a scenario of picking the best qb next year is kinda reaching. first off we're all just guessing about the record and second who knows who will be the next golden-boy flame-out 'franchise' qb next year?
i'd never substitute wins for a shot at a draft pick. you lose faith in the fanbase and it's just a shitty way of going about things. the only team that has 'won' in the draft by doing this is the colts and they still haven't done shit. hell we almost and should have beat them last year and we were sportin brian hoyer so...............
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I pushed all of my chips to the center of the table for Pettine and Farmer quite a while ago. I like what I see and I see what I like: that they're building the team from the inside out; that they're willing to forgo splashy WR's and, instead, go with guys that can actually catch the ball; that they're walking the walk with regards to having the players on the field that have earned it in practice, regardless of where they were drafted; that they are building a bully-mentality on both sides of the ball; and that they want to sledgehammer their opponent's teeth in with a running game, control the clock, and dare their opponents to score.
Let's not forget that this is a rebuilding project. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress that Farmer and Pettine have shown. The Browns organization has been in shambles for over a decade, but under the Farmer/Pettine regime I sense a change for the better. Farmer has made several shrewd player acquisitions, and Pettine has blended a few stars, a few veteran free agents, and a bunch of young talent into a team that can beat any opponent on any given Sunday.
I sense a new spirit, a more competitive attitude, a team that will explode - and the "pundits" will be eating CROWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BROWNS!!!
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Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
For a variety of reasons I simply cannot get to a 2015 case that is worse than our 2014 reality...
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
Ag, I admire your persistence. You even had me going for a while... but upon further review...
Pet only has control over who sees the field, not the final 53. Of the roster choices he has, I do trust Pet to put the best QB on the field... just as he did in 2014.
I was as big a Hoyer backer as anyone here and the choice of McCown as a bridge QB is clearly better to me... stronger psyche... stronger arm... better $$$ value. Any "mentor" capability is frosting, not cake.
While I do agree with the roster decision to keep JM another year to see if the "dedicated" version is the QB at the end of the bridge, the idea that anyone in a position of authority with any organization would spend a first on any player knowing that the player would need a year to work through personal issues before getting serious about competing for playing time is ludicrous. At least not with a player with all the translation questions Johnny brought with him... none of which have been answered to date.
Gig 'em Browns...
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4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
It's the paradox of adding a QB last...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Is there any actual evidence it was Haslam's pick?
Probably no smoking gun....but it had his fingerprints all over it. Farmer and Pettine may deny it was Jimmah that snarled them into taking JFF....but what Lola wants, Lola gets.....and the owner is Lola.
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I pushed all of my chips to the center of the table for Pettine and Farmer quite a while ago. I like what I see and I see what I like: that they're building the team from the inside out; that they're willing to forgo splashy WR's and, instead, go with guys that can actually catch the ball; that they're walking the walk with regards to having the players on the field that have earned it in practice, regardless of where they were drafted; that they are building a bully-mentality on both sides of the ball; and that they want to sledgehammer their opponent's teeth in with a running game, control the clock, and dare their opponents to score.
Let's not forget that this is a rebuilding project. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress that Farmer and Pettine have shown. The Browns organization has been in shambles for over a decade, but under the Farmer/Pettine regime I sense a change for the better. Farmer has made several shrewd player acquisitions, and Pettine has blended a few stars, a few veteran free agents, and a bunch of young talent into a team that can beat any opponent on any given Sunday.
I sense a new spirit, a more competitive attitude, a team that will explode - and the "pundits" will be eating CROWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BROWNS!!!
I pushed all of my chips to the center of the table for Pettine and Farmer quite a while ago. I like what I see and I see what I like: that they're building the team from the inside out; that they're willing to forgo splashy WR's and, instead, go with guys that can actually catch the ball; that they're walking the walk with regards to having the players on the field that have earned it in practice, regardless of where they were drafted; that they are building a bully-mentality on both sides of the ball; and that they want to sledgehammer their opponent's teeth in with a running game, control the clock, and dare their opponents to score.
Let's not forget that this is a rebuilding project. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress that Farmer and Pettine have shown. The Browns organization has been in shambles for over a decade, but under the Farmer/Pettine regime I sense a change for the better. Farmer has made several shrewd player acquisitions, and Pettine has blended a few stars, a few veteran free agents, and a bunch of young talent into a team that can beat any opponent on any given Sunday.
I sense a new spirit, a more competitive attitude, a team that will explode - and the "pundits" will be eating CROWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BROWNS!!!
Just curious....why do you call yourself "Finland" in the native tongue?
(and yes, good points)
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For a variety of reasons I simply cannot get to a 2015 case that is worse than our 2014 reality...
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
Ag, I admire your persistence. You even had me going for a while... but upon further review...
Pet only has control over who sees the field, not the final 53. Of the roster choices he has, I do trust Pet to put the best QB on the field... just as he did in 2014.
I was as big a Hoyer backer as anyone here and the choice of McCown as a bridge QB is clearly better to me... stronger psyche... stronger arm... better $$$ value. Any "mentor" capability is frosting, not cake.
While I do agree with the roster decision to keep JM another year to see if the "dedicated" version is the QB at the end of the bridge, the idea that anyone in a position of authority with any organization would spend a first on any player knowing that the player would need a year to work through personal issues before getting serious about competing for playing time is ludicrous. At least not with a player with all the translation questions Johnny brought with him... none of which have been answered to date.
Gig 'em Browns...
For a variety of reasons I simply cannot get to a 2015 case that is worse than our 2014 reality...
Ag, I admire your persistence. You even had me going for a while... but upon further review...
Pet only has control over who sees the field, not the final 53. Of the roster choices he has, I do trust Pet to put the best QB on the field... just as he did in 2014.
I was as big a Hoyer backer as anyone here and the choice of McCown as a bridge QB is clearly better to me... stronger psyche... stronger arm... better $$$ value. Any "mentor" capability is frosting, not cake.
While I do agree with the roster decision to keep JM another year to see if the "dedicated" version is the QB at the end of the bridge, the idea that anyone in a position of authority with any organization would spend a first on any player knowing that the player would need a year to work through personal issues before getting serious about competing for playing time is ludicrous. At least not with a player with all the translation questions Johnny brought with him... none of which have been answered to date.
Gig 'em Browns...
I don't think I worded that well. I think he knew exactly what he was getting as a QB talent. None of us fully understood the baggage he has had to deal with, Pet included. I don't think even JF understood the depth of the problem. I think he does now. But like his idol Farve, he will still be a handful on the field. Hard to reign that improv style back to a manageable level.
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4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
It's the paradox of adding a QB last...
It's the paradox of adding a QB last...
The Steelers in 2004 followed that exact pattern. They had been building up their defense/OL/running game over a 3-4 year period then finally decided to go for the cherry on top in 2004.
A really not very good yet rookie BR still was able to get that team to 15-1....via their defensive and running prowess. A still average BR got them a SB title (with the worst performance by a winning SB starting QB in history)...via their defense and running prowess.
A very much improved BR was the lead catalyst in their 2008 SB title.
So, I have no problem following that model. Whether that cherry on top is JMZ or someone else remains to be seen.
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I pushed all of my chips to the center of the table for Pettine and Farmer quite a while ago. I like what I see and I see what I like: that they're building the team from the inside out; that they're willing to forgo splashy WR's and, instead, go with guys that can actually catch the ball; that they're walking the walk with regards to having the players on the field that have earned it in practice, regardless of where they were drafted; that they are building a bully-mentality on both sides of the ball; and that they want to sledgehammer their opponent's teeth in with a running game, control the clock, and dare their opponents to score.
Let's not forget that this is a rebuilding project. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress that Farmer and Pettine have shown. The Browns organization has been in shambles for over a decade, but under the Farmer/Pettine regime I sense a change for the better. Farmer has made several shrewd player acquisitions, and Pettine has blended a few stars, a few veteran free agents, and a bunch of young talent into a team that can beat any opponent on any given Sunday.
I sense a new spirit, a more competitive attitude, a team that will explode - and the "pundits" will be eating CROWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BROWNS!!!
Just curious....why do you call yourself "Finland" in the native tongue?
(and yes, good points)
Just curious....why do you call yourself "Finland" in the native tongue?
(and yes, good points)
My wife is half-Finnish, we visited her cousin just outside of Helsinki about 10 years ago and I had a great time, and "Suomi" is usually available as a username on U.S. message boards.
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4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
throwing a records prediction in with a scenario of picking the best qb next year is kinda reaching. first off we're all just guessing about the record and second who knows who will be the next golden-boy flame-out 'franchise' qb next year?
i'd never substitute wins for a shot at a draft pick. you lose faith in the fanbase and it's just a shitty way of going about things. the only team that has 'won' in the draft by doing this is the colts and they still haven't done shit. hell we almost and should have beat them last year and we were sportin brian hoyer so...............
throwing a records prediction in with a scenario of picking the best qb next year is kinda reaching. first off we're all just guessing about the record and second who knows who will be the next golden-boy flame-out 'franchise' qb next year?
i'd never substitute wins for a shot at a draft pick. you lose faith in the fanbase and it's just a shitty way of going about things. the only team that has 'won' in the draft by doing this is the colts and they still haven't done shit. hell we almost and should have beat them last year and we were sportin brian hoyer so...............
I'm not advocating the tanking of a season. I'm just saying that a mediocre season is not in our best interests, despite what some people may think. I'd be less happy with an 8-win season than I would a hard fought 4-win season.
Not taking a QB just because you're worried he may be a "flavor of the week" kind of guy is a good way to miss out on a franchise QB. Don't let the fear of striking out prevent you from stepping to the plate. It's pretty easy to spot those kind of flash in the pan guys. Den LeFevour, Tony Pike, Graham Harrell, Kellen Moore, etc...all of those are guys who are perfect examples of flash in the pan success.
If you're a GM and you take a guy off of one explosive season and no other body of work, he better be 6'5", have a rocket arm, and have won the National Championship (ahem...Cardale). But the top QB's in the draft are normally the top QB's in the draft because of their bodies of work as a whole. Guys like Hackenberg and Cook are solid bets because of the systems they've played in, the athletic talent they possess, the level of competition they've played and their physical stature.
At this point, I'd rather be picking a QB in the 2016 draft than the 2014, that's for sure.
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i get ya. i'm hoping a 9 win season will get the browns in the playoffs, at least as a wild card. it would suck to have a 8 win season only to fall short of the playoffs. i think this browns team needs to taste the fruits of their labor and if they don't soon the older vets are going to be just that and i could see a collapse of will even though farmer is building a team for the future.
hopefully the browns can put the hood ornaments on this team next year. but we do have to watch out (and i'm not going to jinx them) for an unexpected hole that opens up and is a dire need for drafting a player before the qb or wr.
hackenberg and cook could be bums in people's eyes by the draft or succumb to injury, plus add 2-3 more guys that people will fall in love with and it will be another 'race to find the franchise qb' draft again next year.
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For a variety of reasons I simply cannot get to a 2015 case that is worse than our 2014 reality...
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
Ag, I admire your persistence. You even had me going for a while... but upon further review...
Pet only has control over who sees the field, not the final 53. Of the roster choices he has, I do trust Pet to put the best QB on the field... just as he did in 2014.
I was as big a Hoyer backer as anyone here and the choice of McCown as a bridge QB is clearly better to me... stronger psyche... stronger arm... better $$$ value. Any "mentor" capability is frosting, not cake.
While I do agree with the roster decision to keep JM another year to see if the "dedicated" version is the QB at the end of the bridge, the idea that anyone in a position of authority with any organization would spend a first on any player knowing that the player would need a year to work through personal issues before getting serious about competing for playing time is ludicrous. At least not with a player with all the translation questions Johnny brought with him... none of which have been answered to date.
Gig 'em Browns...
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i get ya. i'm hoping a 9 win season will get the browns in the playoffs, at least as a wild card. it would suck to have a 8 win season only to fall short of the playoffs. i think this browns team needs to taste the fruits of their labor and if they don't soon the older vets are going to be just that and i could see a collapse of will even though farmer is building a team for the future.
hopefully the browns can put the hood ornaments on this team next year. but we do have to watch out (and i'm not going to jinx them) for an unexpected hole that opens up and is a dire need for drafting a player before the qb or wr.
hackenberg and cook could be bums in people's eyes by the draft or succumb to injury, plus add 2-3 more guys that people will fall in love with and it will be another 'race to find the franchise qb' draft again next year.
i get ya. i'm hoping a 9 win season will get the browns in the playoffs, at least as a wild card. it would suck to have a 8 win season only to fall short of the playoffs. i think this browns team needs to taste the fruits of their labor and if they don't soon the older vets are going to be just that and i could see a collapse of will even though farmer is building a team for the future.
hopefully the browns can put the hood ornaments on this team next year. but we do have to watch out (and i'm not going to jinx them) for an unexpected hole that opens up and is a dire need for drafting a player before the qb or wr.
hackenberg and cook could be bums in people's eyes by the draft or succumb to injury, plus add 2-3 more guys that people will fall in love with and it will be another 'race to find the franchise qb' draft again next year.
Same here. Hell, it would really suck to have a 10-win season and fall short of the playoffs, a la 2007. I wouldn't put it past this division to have four 10 win teams.
Cook and Hackenberg are my #1 and #2, respectively, regardless of any previously unheralded phenom who comes out of the woodwork this season. The only ones who could jump them would be:
- Cardale Jones with a full, solid season of productive play.
- Jonathan Goff with an absolutely crazy, Heisman-level season. (It would show the career progression, not a flash-in-the-pan success)
There will be guys who climb based off of stellar seasons and ultimately fail in the NFL. Guys like Malik Zaire, Dak Prescott and Trevone Boykin are athletically gifted and play in strong conferences. A crazy season is not out of the picture, and they would fly up boards.
Similarly, smaller school guys like Fredi Knighton, Drew Hare, Tommy Knighton and Josh Dobbs could go off and be thrown in contention.
But I wouldn't rank those guys ahead of Cook or Hackenberg, simply because of their limited resume.
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