* * * Official Raiders @ Browns Game Day Thread * * *
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Crazy Defensive play. Aw fuck I'm a terrible psychic.
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A fitting end to the game.
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The BROWNS need to pick one QB and let him ride. The fiasco last year was bullshit. HAVE FAITH IN YOUR QB. McCown had a horrible first half but he showed some really good gusto in the 2nd half.
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Rough ending
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Benjamin open deep on every play. We can't miss him that many times. Also the booth should have reviewed woodsons interception.. Looked like he was bobbling it as he went out of bounds
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The BROWNS need to pick one QB and let him ride. The fiasco last year was bullshit. HAVE FAITH IN YOUR QB. McCown had a horrible first half but he showed some really good gusto in the 2nd half.
The BROWNS need to pick one QB and let him ride. The fiasco last year was bullshit. HAVE FAITH IN YOUR QB. McCown had a horrible first half but he showed some really good gusto in the 2nd half.
Once they get one I'll agree. I think you go Manziel for the rest of the year and see if he is good enough, if not move on. Mccown hasn't done anything to lose the job but this is a 4-12 team with or without him.
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If Josh could've put another 2 yards on that sideline pass to Benji, I believe he would've scored.
I also think that Johnny could've made that throw, and I'm not a Johnny fan.
It's time to start the kid and see what we have (or don't have) in our QB.
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Faded said:
The real beauty of it is that McCown played well enough so that there is no way you can make the switch now, but the Browns lost anyway. Meanwhile, the guy you spent a first round pick on watches and will watch again next week. That's the risk.
If McCown uses this to springboard to a good season, everything is great. If not, everybody can kind of scratch their heads at draft time next year and wonder what to do.
I must have watched a different game. McCown under threw, threw behind, missed open receivers so many times. He sucked, imho.
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Faded said:
Just be aware that when you do it's going to be a carnival freakshow of highs and lows for a while. You either go through that and accept it for a few games (or half a season), or you should have never drafted the guy.
And that would be worse than what we're seeing now??
And that would be worse than what we're seeing now??
This game was terrible.
Faded said:
Now McCown will have a chance to pad the stats a little with the Raiders nursing a 3 score lead. Pettine can come out in the PC and talk about what solid play he got from the veteran QB and how there is no need to alter the plan.
Nice garbage time stats. Underthown int. the guy isn't accurate, even with zero pressure.
I'm so glad I didn't renew my season tickets
I'm thinking the same next year. They can ride McClown to 2-14. With the running game not working- Josh is worse than worthless.
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Faded said:
I'm only looking at the stats. Until the last INT, they were average for McCown. I don''t know that Manziel could have duplicated it on 40+ throws (though we don't really know, since they only let him throw it 15 times last week). It certainly wasn't lights out by any means, and the yds/att (~7.1) was just about the mean. It certainly wasn't a terrible performance, maybe slightly sub-par.
But, it doesn't matter. I predict Pettine will praise the veteran QB play, point out that, though it needs to improve, they are on the right track, and McCown will be under center on the first play next week. The idea of Manziel scampering around chucking unscripted bombs scares him worse than it does the opposing DCs...
The problem is Johnny hasn't proven much better. He has completed two bombs to Travis Benjamin but other than that he has been a fumbling, incompletion, interception losing machine.
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If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
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If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
Empty seats won't happen in our lifetime, supporting a loser is a badge of honor in Cleveland unfortunately
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Faded said:
Yeah, if you discount the spectacular TD bombs, it definitely takes some of the luster off.
...
...
Now, remind me again, why am I supposed to discount the TD bombs?....
Because you can't sustain that. In today's NFL you either sling it all around and complete 65% of your passes or you have balance. TD bombs are like kick returns for TDs, awesome when they happen but can't count on them.
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Alrighty I guess mine wasn't satisfactory.
Could have been.... had you gotten the title right...
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Faded said:
I haven't looked up the exact stats, but the frequency of 40+ yard touchdown plays is a lot higher than kick returns for TDs, so, while i get the analogy, it's not a very good one.
I'm not saying success on the deep balls is everything, but, yeah, it's a big deal. Also, the threat can be parlayed into other advantages for the offense, as the defense has to respect the long ball. Manziel has thrown 3 (not 2) in 7 quarters this year. It would be crazy to not include them in the overall assessment of his performance. (I have to point out that electrifying wins are nice, too.)
He's complete 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters
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This isn't an overreaction IMO: I see why Josh deserved a chance to start today, I get it. But it's obvious this whole team plays down when he's under center. The team plays a lot different when Manziel is in there. Correct your mistake and put Manziel in.
This isn't an overreaction IMO: I see why Josh deserved a chance to start today, I get it. But it's obvious this whole team plays down when he's under center. The team plays a lot different when Manziel is in there. Correct your mistake and put Manziel in.
I got there a little later than you. To start the 2nd half's 2nd Series, I would have made the change. Just to see if JM could provide a sorely needed spark.
Faded said:
Maybe McCown is going to make us eat our words....
Nah... just a snack...
Faded said:
The real beauty of it is that McCown played well enough so that there is no way you can make the switch now, but the Browns lost anyway. Meanwhile, the guy you spent a first round pick on watches and will watch again next week. That's the risk.
If McCown uses this to springboard to a good season, everything is great. If not, everybody can kind of scratch their heads at draft time next year and wonder what to do.
Outcomes are not that binary... plenty of room in between.
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Faded said:
Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial...
Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something.
I would have started Manziel today, not because I think he's the savior just want to move on sooner rather than later.
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Faded said:
Actually, that's mostly what I'm saying. Manziel is an intriguing talent with serious flaws. Troy Aikman had 9 TDs and 18 INTs his rookie season, but he gained the experience that made him successful later under more favorable circumstances. I think Manziel has shown just enough (he didn't look too bad in the preseason, either), to let him run with it for a few games. Pettine probably doesn't think he has that luxury, but I don't think 7-9 with McCown will help his job security much either.
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
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If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
^+1
He's completed 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters
And McClown has completed 56% of his passes, and fumbled twice in 5 quarters.
Faded said:
Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial...
Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something.
correction- ride Josh to nothing.
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
He missed more throws than he made.
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