Is Haden Washed Up?
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Washed up, to me, is when you're being paid more than your worth. Haden is currently being paid what some people would call "the fourth highest average contract for CB's" but is currently ranked what some would call "121st" in passes defended.
Slow start? I'd say so. The NFL is a business, and when you're overpaid/underperforming, you're hurting the team in more ways than one. 3 games does not a trend make, but after 6 or 7, those talks should probably start gaining some traction.
Fair enough....though Id say most players get paid "after they perform".....had he left 2 years ago because we chose NOT to pay him, what would you have said then?
My whole point was I simply felt this thread was too soon and a bit misguided.....and would agree that 6-7 games would have been more appropriate......
So, now weve gone from washed up after 3 games... to....."good player, but not elite"....and 7 games is a fairer measure.....right?
Fair enough....though Id say most players get paid "after they perform".....had he left 2 years ago because we chose NOT to pay him, what would you have said then?
Beat me to it...
I'd only add that you pay to secure your top talent... and if you're signing that talent to be a building block in CLE, then you even have to pay a little more.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Name a better CB than Haden that is currently on the roster?
Right now? Based upon these 3 games only?......Traymon Williams......Kwaun Williams......
But, if THEY played on another team....how many would trade Haden straight up for either right now?
Right now? Based upon these 3 games only?......Traymon Williams......Kwaun Williams......
But, if THEY played on another team....how many would trade Haden straight up for either right now?
True, but just because a player has a good game doesn't necessarily make him a better player.
How many #1 WR's will the Williams boys line up against this season?
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Right now? Based upon these 3 games only?......Traymon Williams......Kwaun Williams......
But, if THEY played on another team....how many would trade Haden straight up for either right now?
True, but just because a player has a good game doesn't necessarily make him a better player.
How many #1 WR's will the Williams boys line up against this season?
True, but just because a player has a good game doesn't necessarily make him a better player.
How many #1 WR's will the Williams boys line up against this season?
Ha!....Im with ya 100% CD.....
I get that Haden takes the Superstar WR every single game.....I understand he plays man coverage every time and gets no help.....and I also get that he is our #1 CB and, possibly, one of the top 2-3 players on this team.....
And, I also get that he has played poorly the first 3 games(along with just about everyone else)......just dont think it means he's done, cause its happened before(like last year)........
That was my one simple point.....that apparently I was wrong to put out there.....cause it's "enjoyable"(quote) to speculate about Joes demise, whilst it's uncool to offer history that he might just get it together(like last year)....
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What was the score of that game? Remind me. How many times did kaep go down? Then you can check how many tackles shazier had that game. If he's occupying lineman and freeing up the linebackers he's doing fine. Criticizing Heyward is hilarious. He's one of the top 34 ends in the nfl.
Expect last week you played the Rams.... Two weeks ago you played kaep.....
Expect last week you played the Rams.... Two weeks ago you played kaep.....
For me last week was the niners, this week at the time of your lost was the Rams. You do realize the steelers play a 34 right? You also realize Heyward gets doubled a lot as well right? Typically in a 34 the defensive end occupies blockers to get the linebackers free. The Steelers just switched to a one gal which allows defensive ends to rush the qb more specifically. Heyward is being doubled, tuitt is doing the damage. Pretty soon Heyward won't be able to be doubled because Tuitt is tearing it up. Either way Heyward is a terrific 34 end and the Steelers extended him as a result. If you are going to pick on a steeler at least target a player open for legit critique.
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Expect last week you played the Rams.... Two weeks ago you played kaep.....
For me last week was the niners, this week at the time of your lost was the Rams. You do realize the steelers play a 34 right? You also realize Heyward gets doubled a lot as well right? Typically in a 34 the defensive end occupies blockers to get the linebackers free. The Steelers just switched to a one gal which allows defensive ends to rush the qb more specifically. Heyward is being doubled, tuitt is doing the damage. Pretty soon Heyward won't be able to be doubled because Tuitt is tearing it up. Either way Heyward is a terrific 34 end and the Steelers extended him as a result. If you are going to pick on a steeler at least target a player open for legit critique.
For me last week was the niners, this week at the time of your lost was the Rams. You do realize the steelers play a 34 right? You also realize Heyward gets doubled a lot as well right? Typically in a 34 the defensive end occupies blockers to get the linebackers free. The Steelers just switched to a one gal which allows defensive ends to rush the qb more specifically. Heyward is being doubled, tuitt is doing the damage. Pretty soon Heyward won't be able to be doubled because Tuitt is tearing it up. Either way Heyward is a terrific 34 end and the Steelers extended him as a result. If you are going to pick on a steeler at least target a player open for legit critique.
Stooler Trolls......so stupid they cant even reply to the right thread.....
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Name a better CB than Haden that is currently on the roster?
Name a better CB than Haden that is currently on the roster?
Tramon Williams, K'Wuan Williams.
There's two.
Interestingly enough - I found a tool last week that compared physical aspects and career performance - and Haden's closest match was Tramon. Let me see if I can find it later.
Fair enough....though Id say most players get paid "after they perform".....had he left 2 years ago because we chose NOT to pay him, what would you have said then?
My whole point was I simply felt this thread was too soon and a bit misguided.....and would agree that 6-7 games would have been more appropriate......
So, now weve gone from washed up after 3 games... to....."good player, but not elite"....and 7 games is a fairer measure.....right?
Absolutely. I just wanted to create the thread so that, in 4 weeks, I may be able to say "I told you so."
Right now? Based upon these 3 games only?......Traymon Williams......Kwaun Williams......
But, if THEY played on another team....how many would trade Haden straight up for either right now?
I'd probably make the Tramon/Haden trade if only for cap purposes. It's a business, man.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
For me last week was the niners, this week at the time of your lost was the Rams. You do realize the steelers play a 34 right? You also realize Heyward gets doubled a lot as well right? Typically in a 34 the defensive end occupies blockers to get the linebackers free. The Steelers just switched to a one gal which allows defensive ends to rush the qb more specifically. Heyward is being doubled, tuitt is doing the damage. Pretty soon Heyward won't be able to be doubled because Tuitt is tearing it up. Either way Heyward is a terrific 34 end and the Steelers extended him as a result. If you are going to pick on a steeler at least target a player open for legit critique.
Stooler Trolls......so stupid they cant even reply to the right thread.....
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Name a better CB than Haden that is currently on the roster?
Tramon Williams, K'Wuan Williams.
There's two.
Interestingly enough - I found a tool last week that compared physical aspects and career performance - and Haden's closest match was Tramon. Let me see if I can find it later.
Fair enough....though Id say most players get paid "after they perform".....had he left 2 years ago because we chose NOT to pay him, what would you have said then?
My whole point was I simply felt this thread was too soon and a bit misguided.....and would agree that 6-7 games would have been more appropriate......
So, now weve gone from washed up after 3 games... to....."good player, but not elite"....and 7 games is a fairer measure.....right?
Absolutely. I just wanted to create the thread so that, in 4 weeks, I may be able to say "I told you so."
Right now? Based upon these 3 games only?......Traymon Williams......Kwaun Williams......
But, if THEY played on another team....how many would trade Haden straight up for either right now?
I'd probably make the Tramon/Haden trade if only for cap purposes. It's a business, man.
Absolutely. I just wanted to create the thread so that, in 4 weeks, I may be able to say "I told you so."
Ha!....Ill give you that one....
....(and, of course, I now have that same option)Um I've had a back and forth with Columbus king in THIS thread. It's not hard to follow.
And Ill give you that one too....(have you trolls blocked so it's pretty easy to miss your posts)........
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Sorry rational thinking is not allowed here.
Says the old fart
Says the old fart
Correction-the rational thinking old fart.
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Saying a paquetes is washed up after 3 games. Haha. Pathetic. Haden is still out best corner stop being delusional
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Says the old fart
Correction-the rational thinking old fart.
Correction-the rational thinking old fart.
Amen brother!
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Faded said:
This team doesn't look good and the defense doesn't look good. But, you know, I'll bet if you could get rid of that Joe Haden guy, then things would definitely get better quickly. Yeah, I think that's where I would start....
and better yet lets ship him off to the siberia of another AFC North team so his washed up butt can downgrade their defenses.He's ranked 100 and something. Maybe get a few 4th and 5th round picks for hin. Money ball baby !
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Faded said:
This team doesn't look good and the defense doesn't look good. But, you know, I'll bet if you could get rid of that Joe Haden guy, then things would definitely get better quickly. Yeah, I think that's where I would start....
With the way Haden has been playing, you could slap Desir out there and get the same results but for $10.5 million less.
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Some of the threads on here...
Nothing new though. One guy plays off from our expectations and then he's terrible and the sky is falling.
He'll be fine.
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For those critics of Haden, who do you compare him to? I can't think of one CB who plays as much press-man against the opposing #1 (probably the most physically demanding job in the NFL), sans Revis who is an all-time great talent.
In our man coverage scheme, it is ESSENTIAL to get pressure on the QB... Haden makes the mistake of allowing the deep route bc he's expecting QB pressure. This works when you force a QB into throwing too soon, but it doesnt work when the QB has all day...
CB is one of the most thankless jobs in the game. When you're invisible (not letting guys get open) nobody notices. and when you're seen (giving up catches) you're the skapegoat...
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For those critics of Haden, who do you compare him to? I can't think of one CB who plays as much press-man against the opposing #1 (probably the most physically demanding job in the NFL), sans Revis who is an all-time great talent.
In our man coverage scheme, it is ESSENTIAL to get pressure on the QB... Haden makes the mistake of allowing the deep route bc he's expecting QB pressure. This works when you force a QB into throwing too soon, but it doesnt work when the QB has all day...
CB is one of the most thankless jobs in the game. When you're invisible (not letting guys get open) nobody notices. and when you're seen (giving up catches) you're the skapegoat...
For those critics of Haden, who do you compare him to? I can't think of one CB who plays as much press-man against the opposing #1 (probably the most physically demanding job in the NFL), sans Revis who is an all-time great talent.
In our man coverage scheme, it is ESSENTIAL to get pressure on the QB... Haden makes the mistake of allowing the deep route bc he's expecting QB pressure. This works when you force a QB into throwing too soon, but it doesnt work when the QB has all day...
CB is one of the most thankless jobs in the game. When you're invisible (not letting guys get open) nobody notices. and when you're seen (giving up catches) you're the skapegoat...
Amen on pressure being essential to a jamming CB.
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Faded said:
Well, sure, if you are going to just insist that I compare him to some actual, like, you know, flesh-and-blood-real-boy kind of cornerback, that plays real football and stuff, then it makes the whole assessment a little less cut and dried.
But when you compare him to the ideal, made-up, fantasy cornerback in my head, well, let me tell you, dude, he comes up pretty freakin' short! Or, if you like, we can compare him to the other pretend guy that I'm envisioning right now who isn't so great, and who has never done much in the league at corner, but will come here right now for, like, 1/100th of the money that Haden gets and do absolutely no worse than Haden.
I haven't even told you about the one that I came up with where the guy has webbed hands and feet and vestigial wings...
Not sure what you're trying to say...
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He's saying that you need to evaluate every play, not just the 3 during which he didn't execute something perfectly.
He's saying that few humans not named Josh Norman can actually meet the expectations you have assigned to Haden.
He's reminding you that your analysis of "washed up" doesn't mean that the DB coaching staff agrees with you.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
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