Design not just execution hurting Defense
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Like I've been saying, the fire the coach ship sailed about two coaches ago. We're stuck with it. Just have to deal. I'm serious, they can't be fired. The long term dmg to this team will be irreparable for at least a decade if not more. We'll see a procession of division 2 coaches wanting to sniff the bigs so they can go back and land a D1 job. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration.
Like I've been saying, the fire the coach ship sailed about two coaches ago. We're stuck with it. Just have to deal. I'm serious, they can't be fired. The long term dmg to this team will be irreparable for at least a decade if not more. We'll see a procession of division 2 coaches wanting to sniff the bigs so they can go back and land a D1 job. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration.
Well, if the defense situation doesn't turn around quick I would say it's a pretty safe bet O'Neil will be shown the door at years end. Pettine's safe though.
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Like I've been saying, the fire the coach ship sailed about two coaches ago. We're stuck with it. Just have to deal. I'm serious, they can't be fired. The long term dmg to this team will be irreparable for at least a decade if not more. We'll see a procession of division 2 coaches wanting to sniff the bigs so they can go back and land a D1 job. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration.
Well, if the defense situation doesn't turn around quick I would say it's a pretty safe bet O'Neil will be shown the door at years end. Pettine's safe though.
Well, if the defense situation doesn't turn around quick I would say it's a pretty safe bet O'Neil will be shown the door at years end. Pettine's safe though.
but if it's Pettine's D what'll be the diff?
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but if it's Pettine's D what'll be the diff?
Well you could say if Pettine was in charge of play calling and player rotations/position then maybe things would be different. I think our problems are (almost) entirely correctable but they seem to just keep getting worse.
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The analogy is to Jimmy Graham.. Anyone who drafted him for fantasy is disappointed -- because the OC in Seattle does not put him in position to "succeed" [via catches/TD's] as he can.
In NO in 2014, Graham lined up as a in-line TE only 30% of the time. In Seattle, it's near 80%.
Jimmy Graham doesn't suck.. he's just not a blocking TE.
Kruger is not a cover LB. Mingo does not set the edge. etc.
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The analogy is to Jimmy Graham.. Anyone who drafted him for fantasy is disappointed -- because the OC in Seattle does not put him in position to "succeed" [via catches/TD's] as he can.
In NO in 2014, Graham lined up as a in-line TE only 30% of the time. In Seattle, it's near 80%.
Jimmy Graham doesn't suck.. he's just not a blocking TE.
Kruger is not a cover LB. Mingo does not set the edge. etc.
The analogy is to Jimmy Graham.. Anyone who drafted him for fantasy is disappointed -- because the OC in Seattle does not put him in position to "succeed" [via catches/TD's] as he can.
In NO in 2014, Graham lined up as a in-line TE only 30% of the time. In Seattle, it's near 80%.
Jimmy Graham doesn't suck.. he's just not a blocking TE.
Kruger is not a cover LB. Mingo does not set the edge. etc.
I have him on my fantasy and it's been pretty depressing.
You have to be a total idiot of a coach if you can't figure out how to utilize Graham's size, athletic ability.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/browns_jim_oneil_defends_schem.html#incart_river
Jim O'Neil blames execution, not scheme for the worst defense in the NFL.
Sorry Jim, but you have a decent defense and made them worse than they've been for a pretty long time.
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To a degree he's right, but what I've been saying is that they don't have the talent to execute this scheme. Why the staff doesn't understand that I have no idea. They don't have the personnel to run the things they want to, so you don't run what you were doing in Buffalo because there you had some legit all world athletes. I think we may have a better secondary then them, but on the front 7 they have minimum 3 guys that not only do we not have, it's debateable whether we've ever had that kind of talent in team history.
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To a degree he's right, but what I've been saying is that they don't have the talent to execute this scheme. Why the staff doesn't understand that I have no idea. They don't have the personnel to run the things they want to, so you don't run what you were doing in Buffalo because there you had some legit all world athletes. I think we may have a better secondary then them, but on the front 7 they have minimum 3 guys that not only do we not have, it's debateable whether we've ever had that kind of talent in team history.
To a degree he's right, but what I've been saying is that they don't have the talent to execute this scheme. Why the staff doesn't understand that I have no idea. They don't have the personnel to run the things they want to, so you don't run what you were doing in Buffalo because there you had some legit all world athletes. I think we may have a better secondary then them, but on the front 7 they have minimum 3 guys that not only do we not have, it's debateable whether we've ever had that kind of talent in team history.
An NFL coach should be able to recognize this and modify scheme based on the personnel he has. Everybody should play where they're most effective.
We don't have that now, which is why O'Neil is under fire. His unwillingness to change things that aren't working or change player assignments is cause for concern.
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To a degree he's right, but what I've been saying is that they don't have the talent to execute this scheme. Why the staff doesn't understand that I have no idea. They don't have the personnel to run the things they want to, so you don't run what you were doing in Buffalo because there you had some legit all world athletes. I think we may have a better secondary then them, but on the front 7 they have minimum 3 guys that not only do we not have, it's debateable whether we've ever had that kind of talent in team history.
An NFL coach should be able to recognize this and modify scheme based on the personnel he has. Everybody should play where they're most effective.
We don't have that now, which is why O'Neil is under fire. His unwillingness to change things that aren't working or change player assignments is cause for concern.
An NFL coach should be able to recognize this and modify scheme based on the personnel he has. Everybody should play where they're most effective.
We don't have that now, which is why O'Neil is under fire. His unwillingness to change things that aren't working or change player assignments is cause for concern.
I 100% agree. Maybe they thought they could do some of the same things they did in Buffalo but woefully over estimated the talent here.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/browns_jim_oneil_defends_schem.html#incart_river
Jim O'Neil blames execution, not scheme for the worst defense in the NFL.
Sorry Jim, but you have a decent defense and made them worse than they've been for a pretty long time.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/browns_jim_oneil_defends_schem.html#incart_river
Jim O'Neil blames execution, not scheme for the worst defense in the NFL.
Sorry Jim, but you have a decent defense and made them worse than they've been for a pretty long time.
Jim, if the defense doesn't improve soon- you're going to get executed the end of the year.
It was pointed out elsewhere- what's killing this defense is an occasional lapse that's resulted in huge plays. Like having Whitner try and cover Amari Cooper.
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An NFL coach should be able to recognize this and modify scheme based on the personnel he has. Everybody should play where they're most effective.
We don't have that now, which is why O'Neil is under fire. His unwillingness to change things that aren't working or change player assignments is cause for concern.
I 100% agree. Maybe they thought they could do some of the same things they did in Buffalo but woefully over estimated the talent here.
I 100% agree. Maybe they thought they could do some of the same things they did in Buffalo but woefully over estimated the talent here.
Getting rid of Taylor and letting guys like Sheared walk was dumb , too!.. Athyba Rhubin aint doing to bad right now.
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I 100% agree. Maybe they thought they could do some of the same things they did in Buffalo but woefully over estimated the talent here.
Getting rid of Taylor and letting guys like Sheared walk was dumb , too!.. Athyba Rhubin aint doing to bad right now.
Getting rid of Taylor and letting guys like Sheared walk was dumb , too!.. Athyba Rhubin aint doing to bad right now.
I heard that...and like everyone was so sure Rubin was done. It just boggles my mind. Sheard I understood at the time letting walk cause he's a 4-3 guy and it just seemed like we had too many strong side LB'ers. I haven't been paying much attention to his stats in NE but they run a 4-3 now right? So he goes back to putting his hands down and now his career is picking up, FFS. Why couldn't our staff look at the talent we had and just ran a 4-3? We could have both Bryants and Kruger/Sheard rotating at ends. I'll have to check but I'll bet NE put those lb's back on Sheard during the offseason and that's why he's resurgent.
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Getting rid of Taylor and letting guys like Sheared walk was dumb , too!.. Athyba Rhubin aint doing to bad right now.
I heard that...and like everyone was so sure Rubin was done. It just boggles my mind. Sheard I understood at the time letting walk cause he's a 4-3 guy and it just seemed like we had too many strong side LB'ers. I haven't been paying much attention to his stats in NE but they run a 4-3 now right? So he goes back to putting his hands down and now his career is picking up, FFS. Why couldn't our staff look at the talent we had and just ran a 4-3? We could have both Bryants and Kruger/Sheard rotating at ends. I'll have to check but I'll bet NE put those lb's back on Sheard during the offseason and that's why he's resurgent.
I heard that...and like everyone was so sure Rubin was done. It just boggles my mind. Sheard I understood at the time letting walk cause he's a 4-3 guy and it just seemed like we had too many strong side LB'ers. I haven't been paying much attention to his stats in NE but they run a 4-3 now right? So he goes back to putting his hands down and now his career is picking up, FFS. Why couldn't our staff look at the talent we had and just ran a 4-3? We could have both Bryants and Kruger/Sheard rotating at ends. I'll have to check but I'll bet NE put those lb's back on Sheard during the offseason and that's why he's resurgent.
"Well it isn't really right to identify as 3-4 or 4-3 because we run a mixed scheme and will fit it to the talent we have it will always be different"
blah, blah
The incompetence is truly hard to grasp, it's no coincidence Sheard's productivity went down when we changed to a 3-4 under Horton, but both Horton and Pettine/O'Neil said they're "not 3-4 guys"
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This Sunday against the ravens would be a great time to start executing. No need to wait until the season is lost to start doing things right. Both clubs are 1-3 and the winner will have the chance to salvage their season while the loser at 1-4 the season looks really bleak. Not a time to panic but time to see a sense of urgency out of the Browns.
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I heard that...and like everyone was so sure Rubin was done. It just boggles my mind. Sheard I understood at the time letting walk cause he's a 4-3 guy and it just seemed like we had too many strong side LB'ers. I haven't been paying much attention to his stats in NE but they run a 4-3 now right? So he goes back to putting his hands down and now his career is picking up, FFS. Why couldn't our staff look at the talent we had and just ran a 4-3? We could have both Bryants and Kruger/Sheard rotating at ends. I'll have to check but I'll bet NE put those lb's back on Sheard during the offseason and that's why he's resurgent.
"Well it isn't really right to identify as 3-4 or 4-3 because we run a mixed scheme and will fit it to the talent we have it will always be different"
blah, blah
The incompetence is truly hard to grasp, it's no coincidence Sheard's productivity went down when we changed to a 3-4 under Horton, but both Horton and Pettine/O'Neil said they're "not 3-4 guys"
, but both Horton and Pettine/O'Neil said they're "not 3-4 guys"
really? that's weird given the 3-4 is all any of em have ever run their whole careers which was my understanding. Hell Pettine stood up Mario Williams in Buffalo who had been a "strict" 4-3 DE his whole career.
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really? that's weird given the 3-4 is all any of em have ever run their whole careers which was my understanding. Hell Pettine stood up Mario Williams in Buffalo who had been a "strict" 4-3 DE his whole career.
I know what they are, but they both gave the same narrative when people expressed concern of switching to a 3-4/running the 3-4. Basically that they're "hybrid" guys.
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really? that's weird given the 3-4 is all any of em have ever run their whole careers which was my understanding. Hell Pettine stood up Mario Williams in Buffalo who had been a "strict" 4-3 DE his whole career.
I know what they are, but they both gave the same narrative when people expressed concern of switching to a 3-4/running the 3-4. Basically that they're "hybrid" guys.
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This thread is hilarious.
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New England run a 3-4 base which Sheard is excelling in. Why can't they use Mingo's speed to pressure the passer, that's his strength after all, then putting Kruger in pass coverage and relying on journeyman Scott Solomon who played all of one quarter this season is laughable.
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Should struggling Cleveland Browns' defense have kept T.J. Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Buster Skrine? Tom Reed analysis
We came into the season with high expectations with our defense and I wonder if at least some of the problems are who we let leave this team?
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