Joe Thomas
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Not dogging Thomas at all but this team has had a Pro Bowl LT for 8 years and that has gotten them nowhere. They need talent and depth and paying a LT $10 million to pass protect for nobody seems like a waste. Joe deserves to get a shot at winning and I'd wish him well but for the organization to continue to hang their hat on one guy gets the team nowhere.
If we can get a mildly competent team he'd be a bigger difference maker, I don't think we're that far off from being mildly competent really.
Trading him off for a couple low end picks would probably do us more harm than good regardless.
If he was gone our OL depth basically decreases to 0.
If we can get a mildly competent team he'd be a bigger difference maker, I don't think we're that far off from being mildly competent really.
Trading him off for a couple low end picks would probably do us more harm than good regardless.
If he was gone our OL depth basically decreases to 0.
This team fucking stinks, mildly competent is 8-8 which seems far fetched until we get the NFC East as the non-conference games
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A bird in the handSo, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better???
I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league....
Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay??
And the contract doesnt matter(not a waste).....its not like we are cash strapped or need it for some better talent thats in waiting....
A Pigeon in the hand
Fixed. ok mud yrrrr up..
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If we can get a mildly competent team he'd be a bigger difference maker, I don't think we're that far off from being mildly competent really.
Trading him off for a couple low end picks would probably do us more harm than good regardless.
If he was gone our OL depth basically decreases to 0.
This team fucking stinks, mildly competent is 8-8 which seems far fetched until we get the NFC East as the non-conference games
Getting rid of JT would make us stink harder.This team fucking stinks, mildly competent is 8-8 which seems far fetched until we get the NFC East as the non-conference games
Even if we got a #20 + #45 pick or something odds are against us in replacing what he brings to the table.
He's got 3-5+ more pro bowl years in him, hopefully enough time for us to turn it around.
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Getting rid of JT would make us stink harder.This team fucking stinks, mildly competent is 8-8 which seems far fetched until we get the NFC East as the non-conference games
Even if we got a #20 + #45 pick or something odds are against us in replacing what he brings to the table.
He's got 3-5+ more pro bowl years in him, hopefully enough time for us to turn it around.
Getting rid of JT would make us stink harder.
Even if we got a #20 + #45 pick or something odds are against us in replacing what he brings to the table.
He's got 3-5+ more pro bowl years in him, hopefully enough time for us to turn it around.
The Browns have 3 All Pro OL Thomas, Mack & Bitonio and they draft Erving with the 19th pick. Is the offensive line the best in the NFL? Dominant? Top 5? And please don't give me PFF grades. Tell me what you see, the answer is no.
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So, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better???
I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league....
Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay??
And the contract doesnt matter(not a waste).....its not like we are cash strapped or need it for some better talent thats in waiting....
Player not players. How many teams draft 20 first round picks consecutively and end up with one who actually contributes to the team for five years?
The contract isn't a waste now but if the Browns ever decide to bring in a good FA they have to over pay and as you go forward the picks, if used properly, would certainly help.
Patriots let Welker, Ty Law, Vinateri, Revis, Asanta Samuel & Seymour all go when they were All Pro caliber
How many teams draft 20 first round picks consecutively and end up with one who actually contributes to the team for five years?
Patriots let Welker, Ty Law, Vinateri, Revis, Asanta Samuel & Seymour all go when they were All Pro caliber
Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year....
So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too
And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player.....
Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work...
And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea....
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Getting rid of JT would make us stink harder.
Even if we got a #20 + #45 pick or something odds are against us in replacing what he brings to the table.
He's got 3-5+ more pro bowl years in him, hopefully enough time for us to turn it around.
The Browns have 3 All Pro OL Thomas, Mack & Bitonio and they draft Erving with the 19th pick. Is the offensive line the best in the NFL? Dominant? Top 5? And please don't give me PFF grades. Tell me what you see, the answer is no.
The Browns have 3 All Pro OL Thomas, Mack & Bitonio and they draft Erving with the 19th pick. Is the offensive line the best in the NFL? Dominant? Top 5? And please don't give me PFF grades. Tell me what you see, the answer is no.
I don't see too many weaknesses with the OL, we have some lapses with the interior OL and very few with the outside.
Fullback that can't block, RB that can't see the hole, too long for pass plays to develop. There's far bigger issues than the OLine happening that makes them look worse than they are.
Hoyer used to sit back there very comfortably but he was a guy with a quick release and quick decision most of the time - alters perception a little.
For running we have no capable lead blockers, and our best back doesn't get the bulk of the carries.
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How many teams draft 20 first round picks consecutively and end up with one who actually contributes to the team for five years?
Patriots let Welker, Ty Law, Vinateri, Revis, Asanta Samuel & Seymour all go when they were All Pro caliber
Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year....
So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too
And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player.....
Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work...
And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea....
Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year....
So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too
And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player.....
Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work...
And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea....
It has nothing to do with not needing good players. It has to do with trying to get more good players when your great one doesn't really make a difference. Joe Thomas has been great for 8 years, the Browns have one season where they won more than 5 games. Trent Williams another great left tackle Redskins have won more than 6 games once since he came on the scene. Love the blind side but unfortunately you need really good skill players. I guarantee you most NFL fans don't know how good Whitworth for the Bengals is or who plays LT for the Packers and Patriots.
Joe is great, doesn't deserve to be on a loser but being sentimental when the team has a lot of deficiencies may not work.
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The Browns have 3 All Pro OL Thomas, Mack & Bitonio and they draft Erving with the 19th pick. Is the offensive line the best in the NFL? Dominant? Top 5? And please don't give me PFF grades. Tell me what you see, the answer is no.
I don't see too many weaknesses with the OL, we have some lapses with the interior OL and very few with the outside.
Fullback that can't block, RB that can't see the hole, too long for pass plays to develop. There's far bigger issues than the OLine happening that makes them look worse than they are.
Hoyer used to sit back there very comfortably but he was a guy with a quick release and quick decision most of the time - alters perception a little.
For running we have no capable lead blockers, and our best back doesn't get the bulk of the carries.
I don't see too many weaknesses with the OL, we have some lapses with the interior OL and very few with the outside.
Fullback that can't block, RB that can't see the hole, too long for pass plays to develop. There's far bigger issues than the OLine happening that makes them look worse than they are.
Hoyer used to sit back there very comfortably but he was a guy with a quick release and quick decision most of the time - alters perception a little.
For running we have no capable lead blockers, and our best back doesn't get the bulk of the carries.
Bitonio is T2 OL player and Thomas is T9 for penalties at 7 & 5 respectively.
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A bird in the handSo, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better???
I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league....
Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay??
And the contract doesnt matter(not a waste).....its not like we are cash strapped or need it for some better talent thats in waiting....
A dick in the hand
richiswhere's fave subject.
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I don't see too many weaknesses with the OL, we have some lapses with the interior OL and very few with the outside.
Fullback that can't block, RB that can't see the hole, too long for pass plays to develop. There's far bigger issues than the OLine happening that makes them look worse than they are.
Hoyer used to sit back there very comfortably but he was a guy with a quick release and quick decision most of the time - alters perception a little.
For running we have no capable lead blockers, and our best back doesn't get the bulk of the carries.
Bitonio is T2 OL player and Thomas is T9 for penalties at 7 & 5 respectively.
Bitonio is T2 OL player and Thomas is T9 for penalties at 7 & 5 respectively.
Yet we have the second rated line in the entire league.
Funny...
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So, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better???
I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league....
Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay??
And the contract doesnt matter(not a waste).....its not like we are cash strapped or need it for some better talent thats in waiting....
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Gip, you do realize who it is your use of the "movie thing" puts you in the company of... don't you?
And no, it's not WestSideSteve...
I'm not saying that I'd take the deal, but just a first and second from a team I don't believe will be nearly as good next year will be reasonably good picks.Gip, you do realize who it is your use of the "movie thing" puts you in the company of... don't you?
And no, it's not WestSideSteve...
Wait.....
It just occurred to me if they are making a Super Bowl run in 2015 and the addition of Joe Thomas would bring them closer. Therefore they will draft low in 2016.
Never mind.
I could have just deleted this but wanted to admit my error
WSS
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I'm not saying that I'd take the deal, but just a first and second from a team I don't believe will be nearly as good next year will be reasonably good picks.Gip, you do realize who it is your use of the "movie thing" puts you in the company of... don't you?
And no, it's not WestSideSteve...
Wait.....
It just occurred to me if they are making a Super Bowl run in 2015 and the addition of Joe Thomas would bring them closer. Therefore they will draft low in 2016.
Never mind.
I could have just deleted this but wanted to admit my error
WSS
I'm not saying that I'd take the deal, but just a first and second form a team I don't believe will be nearly as good next year will be reasonably good picks.
Wait.....
It just occurred to me if they are making a Super Bowl run in 2015 and the addition of Joe Thomas would bring them closer. Therefore they will draft low in 2016.
Never mind.
I could have just deleted this but wanted to admit my error
WSS
Noble.
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Bitonio is T2 OL player and Thomas is T9 for penalties at 7 & 5 respectively.
Yet we have the second rated line in the entire league.
Funny...
Yet we have the second rated line in the entire league.
Funny...
So Duke Johnson sucks. He's averaging 3.2 ypc behind the second rated OL in the league. PFF have their ratings and unfortunately so do the fans. Watching every game other than the second half of week one I can't remember three consecutive quarters where I felt our OL was dominating or imposing their will on the DL. Some view sabermetrics as the end all be all I tend to look at rush yards per game and yards per carry. The same way we all measure our defense against the run. We don't grade out each play, we are don't give credit to the 15 times a game the other team is held under 3 ypc we care about the 30 yard breakout run.
But as Browns fans, myself included, we tend to see what we want.
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Yet we have the second rated line in the entire league.
Funny...
So Duke Johnson sucks. He's averaging 3.2 ypc behind the second rated OL in the league. PFF have their ratings and unfortunately so do the fans. Watching every game other than the second half of week one I can't remember three consecutive quarters where I felt our OL was dominating or imposing their will on the DL. Some view sabermetrics as the end all be all I tend to look at rush yards per game and yards per carry. The same way we all measure our defense against the run. We don't grade out each play, we are don't give credit to the 15 times a game the other team is held under 3 ypc we care about the 30 yard breakout run.
But as Browns fans, myself included, we tend to see what we want.
So Duke Johnson sucks. He's averaging 3.2 ypc behind the second rated OL in the league. PFF have their ratings and unfortunately so do the fans. Watching every game other than the second half of week one I can't remember three consecutive quarters where I felt our OL was dominating or imposing their will on the DL. Some view sabermetrics as the end all be all I tend to look at rush yards per game and yards per carry. The same way we all measure our defense against the run. We don't grade out each play, we are don't give credit to the 15 times a game the other team is held under 3 ypc we care about the 30 yard breakout run.
But as Browns fans, myself included, we tend to see what we want.
Wasn't it you who was shitting over using passer rating and YPG as metrics for successful QB's?
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So, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better???
I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league....
Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay??
And the contract doesnt matter(not a waste).....its not like we are cash strapped or need it for some better talent thats in waiting....
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So Duke Johnson sucks. He's averaging 3.2 ypc behind the second rated OL in the league. PFF have their ratings and unfortunately so do the fans. Watching every game other than the second half of week one I can't remember three consecutive quarters where I felt our OL was dominating or imposing their will on the DL. Some view sabermetrics as the end all be all I tend to look at rush yards per game and yards per carry. The same way we all measure our defense against the run. We don't grade out each play, we are don't give credit to the 15 times a game the other team is held under 3 ypc we care about the 30 yard breakout run.
But as Browns fans, myself included, we tend to see what we want.
Wasn't it you who was shitting over using passer rating and YPG as metrics for successful QB's?
Wasn't it you who was shitting over using passer rating and YPG as metrics for successful QB's?
Quite the opposite I was praising Mccown for Rating, Yards per Game as top 10 QB stats.
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Wasn't it you who was shitting over using passer rating and YPG as metrics for successful QB's?
Quite the opposite I was praising Mccown for Rating, Yards per Game as top 10 QB stats.
Quite the opposite I was praising Mccown for Rating, Yards per Game as top 10 QB stats.
Oh, okay. I couldn't remember who it was.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
How many teams draft 20 first round picks consecutively and end up with one who actually contributes to the team for five years?
Patriots let Welker, Ty Law, Vinateri, Revis, Asanta Samuel & Seymour all go when they were All Pro caliber
Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year....
So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too
And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player.....
Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work...
And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea....
Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year....
So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too
And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player.....
Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work...
And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea....
i hear ya, but i think i would leave the trade decision up to joe..he has his money. There does not seem to be a superbowl in the immediate future of this organization. He needs to ask himself what is more important at this point...Playing for a championship or playing to make the fans happy by staying in cleveland and going nowhere as far as playoffs and championships....
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