Is it Ray Farmer or Mike Pettine who's responsible for this dumpster fire?
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Here's another article about the lack of talent thanks to Ray Farmer. . .
Rest of the article can be found here:
http://www.dawgpoundnation.com/2015/11/02/all-roads-lead-back-to-ray-farmer-in-browns-failure/
Very similar to the take I posted a couple days ago, but I gave some consideration to Farmer being on the job only a short period before the 2014 draft.
But bottom line is Ray has not yet hit upon a true impact player yet. One, or more, may yet emerge out of his drafts, but none as of yet.
But bottom line is Ray has not yet hit upon a true impact player yet. One, or more, may yet emerge out of his drafts, but none as of yet.
Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."?
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I don't have a ton of confidence in Ray Farmer. Don't think Pettine has a lot of talent to work with.
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I don't have a ton of confidence in Ray Farmer. Don't think Pettine has a lot of talent to work with.
^^^^I don't have a ton of confidence in Ray Farmer. Don't think Pettine has a lot of talent to work with.
This.
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Maybe the Gilbert we saw last year who pretty much sucked is also making progress this year? He looks to be a pretty decent tackler and quick on special teams anyway.
Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others....
And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have.....
So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW......
Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others....
And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have.....
So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW......
Good stuff Mud! If we put a blindfold on him - he couldn't be worse in coverage than Bademosi. How Justin has responded to his Special Teams role says a lot about him. It's a blue collar role that a lot of players don't want to do. Where I thought he'd excel would be at returning kickoffs rather than covering them. Wrong again!
I was a BIG critic of Justin's tackling in the secondary; especially considering how good our corners have been at that art prior to 2015. Corners are often your last tier of defense out there so I hold them to high standards. As recently as our preseason game vrs Washington - not long after he got toasted by Garcon (who dropped it) he couldn't tackle a guy on the sideline or knock him out of bounds. He grabbed the guy instead of attempting to put a shoulder into him and wrap. That was consistent with many pre-draft reports that indicated he was going to need to improve his tackling at the next level. There were definitely reasons to be critical IMO.
All that said, tackling is something guys can improve if they work at it. Maybe I should have remembered that before I ran out of patience with him. Another thing to keep in mind when a guy plays corner is what kind of position is he in when the opponent makes a catch? Was he in a back pedal? Was he changing directions? Was there a chance to square up? How quickly does he adjust and get into position to tackle? Is he a good open field tackler? Big 12 games have a tendency to end up looking like basketball scores so my guess is there's some bad habits to straighten out even with talented guys.
What's changed? When you cover kicks, you're sprinting forward before get yourself under control as you get closer to the return guy so you can square up rather than run past the guy. If your role is contain on the outside- you keep the outside leverage and you can either run him down or into teammates to your inside. Justin has been dynamite. We should have done this with him last year rather than keep our entire fan base on alert that he's a bad boy and he's being grounded. Remember what turned a close Jax game into undoable? We replaced our punt returner in the 4th quarter with someone that hadn't been doing it (Poyer?) and he muffed/fumbled it away to with Jax inside our 10 yard line. We had a guy pegged by Mike Mayock as the best return man in the 2014 draft watching a much lesser return man botching that up.
Here's where we're at. Who would you rather have playing corner vrs Cincy - Gilbert or Bademosi? I never thought I'd be saying this after the preseason but I dare say Gilbert. And why? He's not playing like he's entitled. He's playing like he has something to prove.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh
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Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others....
And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have.....
So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW......
Good stuff Mud! If we put a blindfold on him - he couldn't be worse in coverage than Bademosi. How Justin has responded to his Special Teams role says a lot about him. It's a blue collar role that a lot of players don't want to do. Where I thought he'd excel would be at returning kickoffs rather than covering them. Wrong again!
I was a BIG critic of Justin's tackling in the secondary; especially considering how good our corners have been at that art prior to 2015. Corners are often your last tier of defense out there so I hold them to high standards. As recently as our preseason game vrs Washington - not long after he got toasted by Garcon (who dropped it) he couldn't tackle a guy on the sideline or knock him out of bounds. He grabbed the guy instead of attempting to put a shoulder into him and wrap. That was consistent with many pre-draft reports that indicated he was going to need to improve his tackling at the next level. There were definitely reasons to be critical IMO.
All that said, tackling is something guys can improve if they work at it. Maybe I should have remembered that before I ran out of patience with him. Another thing to keep in mind when a guy plays corner is what kind of position is he in when the opponent makes a catch? Was he in a back pedal? Was he changing directions? Was there a chance to square up? How quickly does he adjust and get into position to tackle? Is he a good open field tackler? Big 12 games have a tendency to end up looking like basketball scores so my guess is there's some bad habits to straighten out even with talented guys.
What's changed? When you cover kicks, you're sprinting forward before get yourself under control as you get closer to the return guy so you can square up rather than run past the guy. If your role is contain on the outside- you keep the outside leverage and you can either run him down or into teammates to your inside. Justin has been dynamite. We should have done this with him last year rather than keep our entire fan base on alert that he's a bad boy and he's being grounded. Remember what turned a close Jax game into undoable? We replaced our punt returner in the 4th quarter with someone that hadn't been doing it (Poyer?) and he muffed/fumbled it away to with Jax inside our 10 yard line. We had a guy pegged by Mike Mayock as the best return man in the 2014 draft watching a much lesser return man botching that up.
Here's where we're at. Who would you rather have playing corner vrs Cincy - Gilbert or Bademosi? I never thought I'd be saying this after the preseason but I dare say Gilbert. And why? He's not playing like he's entitled. He's playing like he has something to prove.
Here's where we're at. Who would you rather have playing corner vrs Cincy - Gilbert or Bademosi? I never thought I'd be saying this after the preseason but I dare say Gilbert. And why? He's not playing like he's entitled. He's playing like he has something to prove.
well stated Fluges......and exactly where I am too....
I also was fading fast on him, after he started this season so rough.....never gave up on his talent tho, but did question his heart....
But now I think I see a guy "finally getting it" and fighting to show he belongs...With Haden down, its the right the time to get him some action and see if that new effort shows up when he's plays CB.....
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Whats really upsetting to think about is that we have the oldest roster in the NFL, a bunch of flop first round picks, a handful of good, young players whos contract expire after the year and will most certainly opt for free agency, and an owner who is commited to a subpar front office/ coaching staff because of the franchises image. There is no light at the end of this broken tunnel...
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Aha... there seems to be a split among the fans of who should own the blame...
Team Farmer or Team Pettine ??? Which side are you on???
Or will you defend neither?
Team Farmer or Team Pettine ??? Which side are you on???
Hasn't been a split like this since the Twilight Saga...
Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."?
lol... Haven't felt that yeti since my last trip to the Himalayas...
The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh
Can't appreciate a conspiracy theory? Take it a step at a time...
Once you acknowledge that Pet does in fact hate a given player or group of players then it's a small step to assigning any evidence to it no matter how ridiculous it may seem to the objective. Here's an example:
"It's only Pet's hated of Manziel that is keeping from holding FGs and PATs. Think of all the two-point players we could run off of PAT fakes! The fact that the PAT is not from the 15 only means Johnny has more room to operate."
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The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh
The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh
Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league.
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The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh
Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league.
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I think the Browns are suffering from Farmeritis. He has brought guys to the
Browns, via the draft who haven't been coached to step into the Browns' system.
And with FA, no idea.... but the legacy of the Dwayne Bowe 9mill guarantee contract
could end up with a new GM.
Now, I've been a Farmer defender...but texting down to the oc during a game, which was illegal?
He couldn't wait til after the game and have a talk with Pettine?
How is it, that he didn't know better?
Farmer can be gone, with no ill effects to the team. As far as Oneil, I think that would be
addition by subtraction.
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I think the Browns are suffering from Farmeritis. He has brought guys to the
Browns, via the draft who haven't been coached to step into the Browns' system.
And with FA, no idea.... but the legacy of the Dwayne Bowe 9mill guarantee contract
could end up with a new GM.
Now, I've been a Farmer defender...but texting down to the oc during a game, which was illegal?
He couldn't wait til after the game and have a talk with Pettine?
How is it, that he didn't know better?
Farmer can be gone, with no ill effects to the team. As far as Oneil, I think that would be
addition by subtraction.
Now, I've been a Farmer defender...but texting down to the oc during a game...
How is it, that he didn't know better?
Definitely NOT a good move......but I do think it was simply a case where he trusted his own coaches not to snitch him out....
BUT....whiny ass cry baby Shanahan didnt like it, so he snitched out his own team....and boss....for his own selfish reasons.....
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Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."?
Have we as yet found a yeti?
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Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others....
And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have.....
So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW......
Good stuff Mud! If we put a blindfold on him - he couldn't be worse in coverage than Bademosi. How Justin has responded to his Special Teams role says a lot about him. It's a blue collar role that a lot of players don't want to do. Where I thought he'd excel would be at returning kickoffs rather than covering them. Wrong again!
I was a BIG critic of Justin's tackling in the secondary; especially considering how good our corners have been at that art prior to 2015. Corners are often your last tier of defense out there so I hold them to high standards. As recently as our preseason game vrs Washington - not long after he got toasted by Garcon (who dropped it) he couldn't tackle a guy on the sideline or knock him out of bounds. He grabbed the guy instead of attempting to put a shoulder into him and wrap. That was consistent with many pre-draft reports that indicated he was going to need to improve his tackling at the next level. There were definitely reasons to be critical IMO.
All that said, tackling is something guys can improve if they work at it. Maybe I should have remembered that before I ran out of patience with him. Another thing to keep in mind when a guy plays corner is what kind of position is he in when the opponent makes a catch? Was he in a back pedal? Was he changing directions? Was there a chance to square up? How quickly does he adjust and get into position to tackle? Is he a good open field tackler? Big 12 games have a tendency to end up looking like basketball scores so my guess is there's some bad habits to straighten out even with talented guys.
What's changed? When you cover kicks, you're sprinting forward before get yourself under control as you get closer to the return guy so you can square up rather than run past the guy. If your role is contain on the outside- you keep the outside leverage and you can either run him down or into teammates to your inside. Justin has been dynamite. We should have done this with him last year rather than keep our entire fan base on alert that he's a bad boy and he's being grounded. Remember what turned a close Jax game into undoable? We replaced our punt returner in the 4th quarter with someone that hadn't been doing it (Poyer?) and he muffed/fumbled it away to with Jax inside our 10 yard line. We had a guy pegged by Mike Mayock as the best return man in the 2014 draft watching a much lesser return man botching that up.
Here's where we're at. Who would you rather have playing corner vrs Cincy - Gilbert or Bademosi? I never thought I'd be saying this after the preseason but I dare say Gilbert. And why? He's not playing like he's entitled. He's playing like he has something to prove.
All that said, tackling is something guys can improve if they work at it. Maybe I should have remembered that before I ran out of patience with him. Another thing to keep in mind when a guy plays corner is what kind of position is he in when the opponent makes a catch? Was he in a back pedal? Was he changing directions? Was there a chance to square up? How quickly does he adjust and get into position to tackle? Is he a good open field tackler? Big 12 games have a tendency to end up looking like basketball scores so my guess is there's some bad habits to straighten out even with talented guys.
What's changed? When you cover kicks, you're sprinting forward before get yourself under control as you get closer to the return guy so you can square up rather than run past the guy. If your role is contain on the outside- you keep the outside leverage and you can either run him down or into teammates to your inside. Justin has been dynamite. We should have done this with him last year rather than keep our entire fan base on alert that he's a bad boy and he's being grounded. Remember what turned a close Jax game into undoable? We replaced our punt returner in the 4th quarter with someone that hadn't been doing it (Poyer?) and he muffed/fumbled it away to with Jax inside our 10 yard line. We had a guy pegged by Mike Mayock as the best return man in the 2014 draft watching a much lesser return man botching that up.
Ya know Tom- it's stuff like this that lends credence to the conspiracy theorists. Yup, Gilbert was horrible in games last year. But with Joe out tonight, we're going to need all hands on deck- and I'd rather see Justin screw up than watching Bad-emosi blow another coverage.
Regarding the McCown-Manziel controversy, Pettine is saying well, look at McCown's stats. Shades of Archie Manning.
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The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh
Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league.
Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league.
Pettine doesn't get another job after the debacle in Cleveland, he's becomes a supporting cast member. Not sure how many guys have thrown away their career 2 years in to prove a point. We aren't talk Shanahan RG3
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Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."?
Have we as yet found a yeti?
Have we as yet found a yeti?
That's a "bumble"...
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