McCown To Start Vs. Steelers If Healthy
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At this point I think both Pettine and JM would be better off with a "restart", Pettine with Cleveland with whomever he can get on board @ QB and JM on another team. But the real problem that will have to take priority with the Browns is at WR on O and with the whole run game defense. Both of those are either the worst in the NFL or very nearly so. A new QB as a high draft choice will not solve those problems and may in fact perpetuate them. Quite a dilemma!
Now this is under the assumption that many here are making that Pettine agrees with you that JM is unsalvageable.
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No other first round quarterback sat on the bench behind a journeyman. As far as I know, could be.
And not one of them from the latest crop on several occasions to act like a backup.
Yes....1st rounders have sat on the bench.....some not even getting a snap, let alone a start....
And Id say there's a (very) good chance those other guys are just better than Johnny.......and, I know for certain, none of them took their rookie seasons off ....(IE: They showed up, worked harder and played better)(fact)
People keep wanting to compare him to Teddy, Carr and Bortles.....but there is no comparison in the way they have prepared, acted or played when given the chance.........
Well mostly people are going to mention Jimmy Garoppolo or Aaron Rodgers, the former not even a first round pick, but both sitting behind Allstars. Not bums.Yes....1st rounders have sat on the bench.....some not even getting a snap, let alone a start....
And Id say there's a (very) good chance those other guys are just better than Johnny.......and, I know for certain, none of them took their rookie seasons off ....(IE: They showed up, worked harder and played better)(fact)
People keep wanting to compare him to Teddy, Carr and Bortles.....but there is no comparison in the way they have prepared, acted or played when given the chance.........
May I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert. That was an obvious insult. Why? You tell me.
And even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start.
Purposely setting him up for failure? You decide.
Well maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guys does it? And allowing the veterans to slack off?
Maybe the offensive and defensive linemen d backs etcshould be staying home studying the PlayBook too?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Can it be considered progress that y'all are not calling Pet a "hater", but instead merely a "not liker"?
Can it be considered progress that y'all are not calling Pet a "hater", but instead merely a "not liker"?
you can add hostile....
Now this is under the assumption that many here are making that Pettine agrees with you that JM is unsalvageable.
Lots of assumptions......I just assume Pettine just thinks McCown is the better QB right now......
If "Unsalvageable"....Id expect Austin at the #2 position....
Well mostly people are going to mention Jimmy Garoppolo or Aaron Rodgers, the former not even a first round pick, but both sitting behind Allstars. Not bums.
May I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert.
I didnt really hear it the way you are saying...but really see no problem with saying/making them know they gotta earn it....plus, they did say it to Bortles...
And even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start.
Purposely setting him up for failure?
To me....this assumption is ridiculous....
Well maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guy does it?
So "demanding" something is all it takes to get good play?.....who woulda thunk it.....
And allowing the veterans to slack off?
I have no idea what this even means.....But its not as if Johnny is the model for good work ethic...
Maybe the offensive and defensive linemen should be staying home studying the PlayBook too?
Maybe they are......I know they arent in the news every other week for being drunk and stupid....and almost every one of them(to a man) has performed his job better than you know who.....
But I guess game performance means nothing.....just 1st round entitlement.....
WSS
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McCown practicing today on a limited basis. I'd bet on him starting Sunday and beating the Steelers.
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I don't want to start a new thread on this, but I was just passed this along:
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/11/cleveland-browns-mike-pettine-ray-farmer/
You can just tell, at least IMO, that Pettine just doesn't want Manziel and according to this report never did. He's got a ballsy strategy on how he manages players, and I'd respect the hell out of it if we were good. We aren't though in the slightest, and as each day goes on it's hard for me to not stare down Pettine.
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http://www.sbnation.com/2015/11/10/9689988/johnny-manziel-browns-film-breakdown-not-ready-to-start
Manziel is not ready and this article will breakdown why he's not. Start McCown when he's ready.
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/11/10/9689988/johnny-manziel-browns-film-breakdown-not-ready-to-start
Manziel is not ready and this article will breakdown why he's not. Start McCown when he's ready.
OK, read it, and watched the film clips multiple times.
That's all fair and good, except that McCown has performed individually much stronger in his losses than Manziel. If both are losing, then you take the one who performs better - it's that simple. Starting Manziel over McCown would be admitting that this season is a waste, which is an even quicker way to lose your job.
Fair enough.
As much as I want the support of the article, a couple play's analysis don't ring true. Therefore the writer must be a hater...
Always wondered what it felt like to say that...
Really... he does... and I'm not saying he's a bad backup, but no way can he be deemed "reliable" at this point.
What I took away from those clips is Manziel does miss wide open receivers a on a regular basis. Slow diagnosing the coverage too. BUT. The guy isn't 6'5" either. Several of the busted plays from the pocket- he had the Bengal defense shoving the o-line back in his face. Most notably on the first clip- he might not have been able to see the back on that swing pass, because the Bengal defender was shoving Schwartz into his lap.
So yup obvious, Johnny isn't ready to be a pocket passer, but Flip isn't doing him any favors designing plays that aren't geared to his strengths. The guy has had 4 starts, I'm sure you could nit-pick Bortles or Bridgewater and come up with similar head scratchers. Let's not forget Teddy has the leading rusher in the NFL to take some of the heat off of him. The Browns rushed was it once? in the entire second half against the Bengals.
EDIT: So Pettine may as well tell Johnny- our offense demands that you stay in the pocket- so you can get your ass killed- just like Josh.
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Well mostly people are going to mention Jimmy Garoppolo or Aaron Rodgers, the former not even a first round pick, but both sitting behind Allstars. Not bums.Yes....1st rounders have sat on the bench.....some not even getting a snap, let alone a start....
And Id say there's a (very) good chance those other guys are just better than Johnny.......and, I know for certain, none of them took their rookie seasons off ....(IE: They showed up, worked harder and played better)(fact)
People keep wanting to compare him to Teddy, Carr and Bortles.....but there is no comparison in the way they have prepared, acted or played when given the chance.........
May I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert. That was an obvious insult. Why? You tell me.
And even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start.
Purposely setting him up for failure? You decide.
Well maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guys does it? And allowing the veterans to slack off?
Maybe the offensive and defensive linemen d backs etcshould be staying home studying the PlayBook too?
WSS
May I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert. That was an obvious insult. Why? You tell me.
Because it was obvious that JM was not NFL ready?
And even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start.
Purposely setting him up for failure? You decide.
Made up horseshit since JM has taken every 1st team rep before every one of his starts.
Well maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guys does it? And allowing the veterans to slack off?
Demanding = getting? I did not know it was that simple.
Giving a vet like Joe Thomas a day off is neither slacking nor unprecedented.
Maybe the offensive and defensive linemen d backs etcshould be staying home studying the PlayBook too?
First, do you know they were not?
But even if not, why would they? Everyone knows the Playbook at this point... JM knowing it made it official.
The point made was that our first-string QB, whose start this Sunday remains in doubt was in the building preparing for possibly starting. Meanwhile our second-string QB was not.
Should either start, which of them clearly needs that prep time more?
Lots of assumptions......I just assume Pettine just thinks McCown is the better QB right now......
If "Unsalvageable"....Id expect Austin at the #2 position....
Too simple... too logical...
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I don't want to start a new thread on this, but I was just passed this along:
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/11/cleveland-browns-mike-pettine-ray-farmer/
You can just tell, at least IMO, that Pettine just doesn't want Manziel and according to this report never did. He's got a ballsy strategy on how he manages players, and I'd respect the hell out of it if we were good. We aren't though in the slightest, and as each day goes on it's hard for me to not stare down Pettine.
I don't want to start a new thread on this, but I was just passed this along:
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/11/cleveland-browns-mike-pettine-ray-farmer/
You can just tell, at least IMO, that Pettine just doesn't want Manziel and according to this report never did. He's got a ballsy strategy on how he manages players, and I'd respect the hell out of it if we were good. We aren't though in the slightest, and as each day goes on it's hard for me to not stare down Pettine.
Was is OBR's reputation when it comes to this kind of Insider reporting?
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just imagine if we hadn't drafted johnny.
half the fags would have never shown up at this door, no bullshit media circus following the team around and we'd be talking about picking our franchise qb next year.
instead it's the midget vs. fidget fight.
please cut his ass after the season. or better yet trade him to the cowboys for a 7th round pick.
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just imagine if we hadn't drafted johnny.
half the fags would have never shown up at this door, no bullshit media circus following the team around and we'd be talking about picking our franchise qb next year.
instead it's the midget vs. fidget fight.
please cut his ass after the season. or better yet trade him to the cowboys for a 7th round pick.
just imagine if we hadn't drafted johnny.
half the fags would have never shown up at this door, no bullshit media circus following the team around and we'd be talking about picking our franchise qb next year.
instead it's the midget vs. fidget fight.
please cut his ass after the season. or better yet trade him to the cowboys for a 7th round pick.
Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
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just imagine if we hadn't drafted johnny.
half the fags would have never shown up at this door, no bullshit media circus following the team around and we'd be talking about picking our franchise qb next year.
instead it's the midget vs. fidget fight.
please cut his ass after the season. or better yet trade him to the cowboys for a 7th round pick.
Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
the guys that have stuck through this mess (you and wargo) i don't include when i comment like that. still like manziel AND i'd start him for the rest of the year just to get the controversy over with.
who knows what was said or done when haslam, farmer and pett got together on their weekend sabbatical? haslam might have promised them both fair shakes and said no matter what (sophomore slump/tougher schedule/injuries) they have an actual chance to do things their way and rebuild the team.
he probably apologized for forcing the manziel pick as well and hopefully said he'd keep his mint julep drinking ass out of personnel decisions forever.
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just imagine if we hadn't drafted johnny.
half the fags would have never shown up at this door, no bullshit media circus following the team around and we'd be talking about picking our franchise qb next year.
instead it's the midget vs. fidget fight.
please cut his ass after the season. or better yet trade him to the cowboys for a 7th round pick.
Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
So all I have to do to get a free Browns shirt is be a Manziel fan?
I'm in.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
So all I have to do to get a free Browns shirt is be a Manziel fan?
I'm in.
So all I have to do to get a free Browns shirt is be a Manziel fan?
I'm in.
Sorry Tim, but to use Zombo's definitions, you can only qualify as an outsider. Not possible to be a Manzealot fanboy unless you started 4 years ago just like you can't be a Browns fan unless you started 40 years ago.
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Yeah, but I never would have gotten that free Browns T-shirt from you that I proudly wear in public no matter the record or the controversy.
So all I have to do to get a free Browns shirt is be a Manziel fan?
I'm in.
So all I have to do to get a free Browns shirt is be a Manziel fan?
I'm in.
or if you had just responded to a PM i sent regarding such while asking certain people if they wanted one.
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I don't think it's going to matter which QB starts.
If the defense lays another turd, we lose.
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So all I have to do to get a free Browns shirt is be a Manziel fan?
I'm in.
or if you had just responded to a PM i sent regarding such while asking certain people if they wanted one.
or if you had just responded to a PM i sent regarding such while asking certain people if they wanted one.
I did.
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βmay I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert. That was an obvious insult. Why? You tell me.β
Because it was obvious that JM was not NFL ready?
β no, because the coach had no fucking idea about that two days after the draft.
It makes more sense to assume he was pissed off at ray farmer for something. Human nature. If a restaurant manager forced me to use a lead guitar player I didn't want I would not want to make him look good.β
And even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start.
Purposely setting him up for failure? You decide.
Made up horseshit since JM has taken every 1st team rep before every one of his starts.
β made up horseshit is all we have.
I don't put much stock into what Tony Grossi has to say but yesterday he made a statement asking incredulously it's Wednesday of Steelers week and the coach hasn't decided yet who his starting quarterback will be?β
Well maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guys does it? And allowing the veterans to slack off?β
Demanding = getting? I did not know it was that simple.
Giving a vet like Joe Thomas a day off is neither slacking nor unprecedented.
β hard to say. Do you suppose Vince Lombardi gives the offensive line time to kick back when the quarterback is getting pummeled every week? Or when your feet your back gets hit in the backfield a third of the time?β
Maybe the offensive and defensive linemen d backs etcshould be staying home studying the PlayBook too?
First, do you know they were not?
But even if not, why would they? Everyone knows the Playbook at this point... JM knowing it made it official.
The point made was that our first-string QB, whose start this Sunday remains in doubt was in the building preparing for possibly starting. Meanwhile our second-string QB was not.
Should either start, which of them clearly needs that prep time more?
β I've got no idea what any of the players were doing over the weekend.
so unless I'm mistaken its your opinion that the coach new johnny was no damn good on draft day?
If the conclusion doesn't sound reasonable it's probably not true.
I maintain that it would be it's shocking statement for any coach on any team to describe any player taken in the first round as a backup. Furthermore to say often very early on that player should accept his role as a backup. That's a hostile statement and you'd think so if you didn't dislike Manziel.
Notice he did not say that about Justin Gilbert. And Justin Gilbert has been a much worse pick than Johnny. How many games has Justin Gilbert played for the Browns?
And no, I don't know that the other players weren't staying home all weekend studying the playbook.
Maybe they were. That means the reason they suck is due to some other factor.
I want to see Josh McCown succeed as much as anybody. If it means Johnny sits, fine with me.
But if the couch is channeling is old man, catering to the seniors even when they underperform, and punishing kids that break curfew...
But rest assured unlike some of the mugs on this board I will watch every game and root for my guy till the end without a single "fuck you or you suck or cut that cock sucker."
As to the prediction that Josh beat the Steelers? I would love to see that and see no reason why it couldn't happen. My fear? That Tomlin and his shit eating cheap shot Steelers go right for the poor bastards ribs and put him out for the season.
Then the usual gang of haters gloat that Johnny doesn't bring back the collapsed team.
WSSβ
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βmay I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert. That was an obvious insult. Why? You tell me.β
Because it was obvious that JM was not NFL ready?
β no, because the coach had no fucking idea about that two days after the draft.
It makes more sense to assume he was pissed off at ray farmer for something. Human nature. If a restaurant manager forced me to use a lead guitar player I didn't want I would not want to make him look good.β
And even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start.
Purposely setting him up for failure? You decide.
Made up horseshit since JM has taken every 1st team rep before every one of his starts.
β made up horseshit is all we have.
I don't put much stock into what Tony Grossi has to say but yesterday he made a statement asking incredulously it's Wednesday of Steelers week and the coach hasn't decided yet who his starting quarterback will be?β
Well maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guys does it? And allowing the veterans to slack off?β
Demanding = getting? I did not know it was that simple.
Giving a vet like Joe Thomas a day off is neither slacking nor unprecedented.
β hard to say. Do you suppose Vince Lombardi gives the offensive line time to kick back when the quarterback is getting pummeled every week? Or when your feet your back gets hit in the backfield a third of the time?β
Maybe the offensive and defensive linemen d backs etcshould be staying home studying the PlayBook too?
First, do you know they were not?
But even if not, why would they? Everyone knows the Playbook at this point... JM knowing it made it official.
The point made was that our first-string QB, whose start this Sunday remains in doubt was in the building preparing for possibly starting. Meanwhile our second-string QB was not.
Should either start, which of them clearly needs that prep time more?
β I've got no idea what any of the players were doing over the weekend.
so unless I'm mistaken its your opinion that the coach new johnny was no damn good on draft day?
If the conclusion doesn't sound reasonable it's probably not true.
I maintain that it would be it's shocking statement for any coach on any team to describe any player taken in the first round as a backup. Furthermore to say often very early on that player should accept his role as a backup. That's a hostile statement and you'd think so if you didn't dislike Manziel.
Notice he did not say that about Justin Gilbert. And Justin Gilbert has been a much worse pick than Johnny. How many games has Justin Gilbert played for the Browns?
And no, I don't know that the other players weren't staying home all weekend studying the playbook.
Maybe they were. That means the reason they suck is due to some other factor.
I want to see Josh McCown succeed as much as anybody. If it means Johnny sits, fine with me.
But if the couch is channeling is old man, catering to the seniors even when they underperform, and punishing kids that break curfew...
But rest assured unlike some of the mugs on this board I will watch every game and root for my guy till the end without a single "fuck you or you suck or cut that cock sucker."
As to the prediction that Josh beat the Steelers? I would love to see that and see no reason why it couldn't happen. My fear? That Tomlin and his shit eating cheap shot Steelers go right for the poor bastards ribs and put him out for the season.
Then the usual gang of haters gloat that Johnny doesn't bring back the collapsed team.
WSSβ
βmay I repeat right at the time of the draft Mike P kept repeating prepare to be a backup. Nobody said that about carr Bortles or Bilgewater. Or Gilbert. That was an obvious insult. Why? You tell me.β
Because it was obvious that JM was not NFL ready?
β no, because the coach had no fucking idea about that two days after the draft.β
Why not? I knew...
βIt makes more sense to assume he was pissed off at ray farmer for something. Human nature. If a restaurant manager forced me to use a lead guitar player I didn't want I would not want to make him look good.β
It's the difference between professional and petty. I do not see Pet as petty.
And the rumor that had Pet telling JM what you claim, also had Farmer telling JM the same thing.
βAnd even when josh is walking dead the coach waits to last minute so as to not properly prepare the rookie for a start. Purposely setting him up for failure? You decide.β
Made up horseshit since JM has taken every 1st team rep before every one of his starts.
β made up horseshit is all we have.
I don't put much stock into what Tony Grossi has to say but yesterday he made a statement asking incredulously it's Wednesday of Steelers week and the coach hasn't decided yet who his starting quarterback will be?β
So in this case horseshit is acceptable? The starter has been named. If Josh can play, then he will start.
However, who will start has absolutely nothing to do with who has been getting the reps in practice.
βWell maybe this really is a tough coach who demands his guys play like browns, but it doesn't seem that way looking at the performance of his defensive guys does it? And allowing the veterans to slack off?β
Demanding = getting? I did not know it was that simple.
Giving a vet like Joe Thomas a day off is neither slacking nor unprecedented.
β hard to say. Do you suppose Vince Lombardi gives the offensive line time to kick back when the quarterback is getting pummeled every week? Or when your feet your back gets hit in the backfield a third of the time?β
I don't think Lombardi gave days off to anyone for any reason including broken limbs. Different era...
βMaybe the offensive and defensive linemen d backs etcshould be staying home studying the PlayBook too?β
First, do you know they were not?
But even if not, why would they? Everyone knows the Playbook at this point... JM knowing it made it official. The point made was that our first-string QB, whose start this Sunday remains in doubt was in the building preparing for possibly starting. Meanwhile our second-string QB was not. Should either start, which of them clearly needs that prep time more?
β I've got no idea what any of the players were doing over the weekend.
so unless I'm mistaken its your opinion that the coach new johnny was no damn good on draft day?
If the conclusion doesn't sound reasonable it's probably not true.β
You are mistaken. What part of "not NFL ready" did you not understand? Is that equivalent in your mind to "no damn good"?
And clearly, your conclusion does not strike ne a "reasonable".
βI maintain that it would be it's shocking statement for any coach on any team to describe any player taken in the first round as a backup. Furthermore to say often very early on that player should accept his role as a backup. That's a hostile statement and you'd think so if you didn't dislike Manziel.β
When did Pet first say this? And what exactly did he say?
As I remember there was a QB competition through most of JM's first camp. Finally after the 2nd pre-season game, Pet picked Hoyer on the basis of consistency and knowledge of the playbook. JM earned the bench. He had not put in the work. By definition any player on the bench is a "backup".
As for accepting the role, clearly JM did not in 2014. He pouted visibly during games. In terms of preparedness he had not even done enough to be the backup in 2014. Something we saw all too well from his second regular season series through his last start.
If anything, Pet was restraining his criticism.
βNotice he did not say that about Justin Gilbert. And Justin Gilbert has been a much worse pick than Johnny. How many games has Justin Gilbert played for the Browns?β
But in essence Pet did... because Gilbert was benched as well... and more deeply than JM ever was. Do you not remember public criticism of Gilbert's readiness to play?
Of Gilbert and JM, whose progress has Pet publicly praised the most?
βAnd no, I don't know that the other players weren't staying home all weekend studying the playbook.
Maybe they were. That means the reason they suck is due to some other factor.β
My point was that no one needed to be studying the playbook that weekend...
Well, maybe Turbine...
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First let me apologize for the rambling nature of my rant. I'll try not to rehash every single point. Let me say that you know a lot more about football than I do but that I believe your position is formed by a dislike of Johnny, for whatever reason personal or professional.
Your first bold statement that you knew johnny was not in NFL caliber quarterback the day after the draft? If that's true you have knowledge that eclipses many if not most who have made a living in the NFL for many years.
Yes horseshit and innuendo is all we have.
Tony Grossi Mary Kay Cabot Patrick McManamon and the entire herd ESPN hacks report it all day long.
Different era? Yes probably but still does not ir seem other teams are more disciplined and successful? Why are we first in the league at false starts?
As I recall, since I was slightly stunned by the statement, the coach said prepare to be a backup within 48 hours of the draft.
I grant you that would be perfectly acceptable during training camp when Johnny was apparently not ready to play.
Still I don't fault him for looking pissed off watching the guy starting ahead of him suck on the field. As I recall your boy Hoyer did his share of sulking as well.
And whose progress has been more widely praised? We know the answer to that and it's because Justin Gilbert, a top five pick is completely unable to play in the NFL well Johnny actually did make great strides. So....
Anyway since the quarterback position has not lost any games for us, we are in essence stepping over a dollar to pick up a quarter.
Maybe TMZ should spend more time finding out what our veteran defensive backs, offensive lineman and defensive lineman did on their day off.
WSS
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