Schwartz, the #1 RT in the NFL
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Irving starts Sunday doesn't he, interesting to see how our first round O lineman does...
Yeah, he is playing LG, maybe he has a good game. He certainly is going to make somebody expendable if he plays well, probably Mack.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Yeah, he is playing LG, maybe he has a good game. He certainly is going to make somebody expendable if he plays well, probably Mack.
Zombo
I hope you are right about Erving but wrong about Mack. Knee or leg injuries are tricky things and sometimes take more than a year to fully recover, especially when being tested by 300 + lb guys trying to knock you down. I still hold out hope that at least by next summer he has fully regained his All-Pro playing ability. A quarter step slower in this league may as well be a mile wide gap. At least this year so far gets him resigned with us.
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Z what the hell are you drinking or smoking these days? Yeah we should beat a banged up Pitt, but winning record in the second half? The D will have to go through transformation school for that to happen.
That is my hidden hope. I haven't completely written off the D yet.
Zombo
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Not all is wrong with this team - or with the player development.
PFF just today released their midseason All-Pro team.. and Schwartz is the #1 RT in all the land.
Not all is wrong with this team - or with the player development.
PFF just today released their midseason All-Pro team.. and Schwartz is the #1 RT in all the land.
So.............................the Browns have a GREAT LT, an All-Pro C and a top-rated RT AND THEY STILL CAN'T RUN THE BALL!!!!
And people tell me the RBs don't suck.........................................
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Not all is wrong with this team - or with the player development.
PFF just today released their midseason All-Pro team.. and Schwartz is the #1 RT in all the land.
So.............................the Browns have a GREAT LT, an All-Pro C and a top-rated RT AND THEY STILL CAN'T RUN THE BALL!!!!
And people tell me the RBs don't suck.........................................
So.............................the Browns have a GREAT LT, an All-Pro C and a top-rated RT AND THEY STILL CAN'T RUN THE BALL!!!!
And people tell me the RBs don't suck.........................................
Mack maybe not an all-pro this year, but Bitonio may be capable of a pro bowl this year too.
Also we have no servicable lead blockers and the TEs are shaky.
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Zombo said:
Yeah, he is playing LG, maybe he has a good game. He certainly is going to make somebody expendable if he plays well, probably Mack.
Zombo
I hope you are right about Erving but wrong about Mack. Knee or leg injuries are tricky things and sometimes take more than a year to fully recover, especially when being tested by 300 + lb guys trying to knock you down. I still hold out hope that at least by next summer he has fully regained his All-Pro playing ability. A quarter step slower in this league may as well be a mile wide gap. At least this year so far gets him resigned with us.
I hope you are right about Erving but wrong about Mack. Knee or leg injuries are tricky things and sometimes take more than a year to fully recover, especially when being tested by 300 + lb guys trying to knock you down. I still hold out hope that at least by next summer he has fully regained his All-Pro playing ability. A quarter step slower in this league may as well be a mile wide gap. At least this year so far gets him resigned with us.
I was thinking more of his contract situation than anything else.
Zombo
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I hope you are right about Erving but wrong about Mack. Knee or leg injuries are tricky things and sometimes take more than a year to fully recover, especially when being tested by 300 + lb guys trying to knock you down. I still hold out hope that at least by next summer he has fully regained his All-Pro playing ability. A quarter step slower in this league may as well be a mile wide gap. At least this year so far gets him resigned with us.
I was thinking more of his contract situation than anything else.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
I was thinking more of his contract situation than anything else.
Anyone willing to pay him the money in 2016 will have to be banking on his "continued recovery" that we are forced to hope for.
I don't see teams doing that.
Anyone willing to pay him the money in 2016 will have to be banking on his "continued recovery" that we are forced to hope for.
I don't see teams doing that.
I feel like he will get better as the year goes on. I also feel like he doesn't really want to be in Cleveland. Just a hunch, but I think he moves on, and i think we let him.
Zombo
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So.............................the Browns have a GREAT LT, an All-Pro C and a top-rated RT AND THEY STILL CAN'T RUN THE BALL!!!!
And people tell me the RBs don't suck.........................................
Mack maybe not an all-pro this year, but Bitonio may be capable of a pro bowl this year too.
Also we have no servicable lead blockers and the TEs are shaky.
Mack maybe not an all-pro this year, but Bitonio may be capable of a pro bowl this year too.
Also we have no servicable lead blockers and the TEs are shaky.
So the RBs are just fine, right?
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So the RBs are just fine, right?
No, we just cut the next Jim Brown. (Turbin)
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The problem I have with these "individual" evaluations are an O-Line is more than individuals and one break down can greatly affect the outcome of the game. The metrics don't really take into account that 5 yard false start that puts the team in 3rd in 10 instead of 3rd and 5, takes you out of field goal range, when you're down 2 may cripple a team.
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The problem I have with these "individual" evaluations are an O-Line is more than individuals and one break down can greatly affect the outcome of the game. The metrics don't really take into account that 5 yard false start that puts the team in 3rd in 10 instead of 3rd and 5, takes you out of field goal range, when you're down 2 may cripple a team.
The problem I have with these "individual" evaluations are an O-Line is more than individuals and one break down can greatly affect the outcome of the game. The metrics don't really take into account that 5 yard false start that puts the team in 3rd in 10 instead of 3rd and 5, takes you out of field goal range, when you're down 2 may cripple a team.
They do account for penalties though......and of ALL our O linemen, Schwartz has the fewest penalties.........
People have been on him since day one and I have never been able to figure that out.....glad he's finally getting his due for showing up....playing every single snap since he was drafted.....being ranked in the top half of the league every year since he was drafted......and getting progressively better every year as well....
What more should we ask?......does he have to be another Joe Thomas to be accepted ?......
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The problem I have with these "individual" evaluations are an O-Line is more than individuals and one break down can greatly affect the outcome of the game. The metrics don't really take into account that 5 yard false start that puts the team in 3rd in 10 instead of 3rd and 5, takes you out of field goal range, when you're down 2 may cripple a team.
They do account for penalties though......and of ALL our O linemen, Schwartz has the fewest penalties.........
People have been on him since day one and I have never been able to figure that out.....glad he's finally getting his due for showing up....playing every single snap since he was drafted.....being ranked in the top half of the league every year since he was drafted......and getting progressively better every year as well....
What more should we ask?......does he have to be another Joe Thomas to be accepted ?......
People have been on him since day one and I have never been able to figure that out.....
It really wasn't hard. His PassPro technique was weak and he was easily beaten by speed rushes. In our then power run game, he whiffed quick assignments with regularity.
Now it's not and he's not plus we emphasize the ZBS. I did not see his development coming. And based upon the players taken above Mitch, I had no faith in our top talent evaluation.
Aside: Looking at the 2012 Draft now rounds 2-6 were pretty good...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
PFF also answered the question asked by many people in this thread.. if the OL is so great, why the lack of running game and so many sacks?
It's everyone else.. and unfortunately, that makes total sense.
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PFF also answered the question asked by many people in this thread.. if the OL is so great, why the lack of running game and so many sacks?
It's everyone else.. and unfortunately, that makes total sense.
PFF also answered the question asked by many people in this thread.. if the OL is so great, why the lack of running game and so many sacks?
It's everyone else.. and unfortunately, that makes total sense.
Great article.
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People have been on him since day one and I have never been able to figure that out.....
It really wasn't hard. His PassPro technique was weak and he was easily beaten by speed rushes. In our then power run game, he whiffed quick assignments with regularity.
Now it's not and he's not plus we emphasize the ZBS. I did not see his development coming. And based upon the players taken above Mitch, I had no faith in our top talent evaluation.
Aside: Looking at the 2012 Draft now rounds 2-6 were pretty good...
It really wasn't hard. His PassPro technique was weak and he was easily beaten by speed rushes. In our then power run game, he whiffed quick assignments with regularity.
Now it's not and he's not plus we emphasize the ZBS. I did not see his development coming. And based upon the players taken above Mitch, I had no faith in our top talent evaluation.
Aside: Looking at the 2012 Draft now rounds 2-6 were pretty good...
2011-12 drafts produced a lot of decent players:
Taylor
Sheard
Cameron
Skrine
Schwartz
Hughes
Benjamin
Winn
Maybe heckert wasn't so bad? Sweden aside, who was a Holmgren pick. Richardson was a bust but everyone else would have done the same drafting him.
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Can he play quarterback? Wide reciever? Running back? Will he get us a play off game?
No but having one solid piece in place is one less piece you gotta replace next year so the draft picks can contribute to areas of need.
But hopefully the old story doesnt hold true.
New HC
Draft New QB
Gets 1-2 years of implimenting his system with players that dont fit the system..
Fired
Repeat.
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JT till 2019,Greco till 18, Bitonio till 18, Schwartz till end of season & deserves a deal, Mack is on Mack at end of season, Cam learning in waiting. The last thing we need to fix is a Good OL. Start fixing a Shitty D. How about some WR's with size that can get open than a QB that does not have to hold the ball so long to get a WR open. Get the ball out on time. RB's that have patience & vision to hit the correct hole or see his own. Fix whats broken & its not all on this OL imo..
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Ag taught me the other day to go a link deeper... so I did... to PFF's OL ranking article.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/04/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-9/
2. Cleveland Browns (3rd)
Pass blocking rank: 1st
Run blocking rank: 5th
Penalties rank: 25th
Stud: Joe Thomas (93.8), despite trade rumors, remains the best player the Browns have on the roster.
Dud: We’re drawing a blank here. Every starter on the line has a positive grade. That’s impressive.
Summary: The scary thing is, this line could get better. Alex Mack (77.9) isn’t back to his pre-injury levels, and as good as Joel Bitonio (83.3) has been, he’s not reached his rookie-year efforts yet. Even despite that, this is a line that does its best to overcome the limitations of the Browns’ skill players.25th in penalties? Ouch...
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