Kruger Knows What You're Feeling Mario
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By way of comparison, in 2014 we had 587 passes attempted against all season.. and accumulated 31 sacks, for a 5.3% clip. So, Cleveland is actually getting to the QB better this year as compared to last.
FYI: Last year Bills had 559 passes attempted against and 54 sacks, for 9.66% clip. That's a pretty big dropoff up north..
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
or....another way to slice those sack #'s is to look at the team w/o Kruger...
2014.....the "Browns" (less Kruger) had 20 sacks in 16 games.....(1.25 per game)
2015.....the "Browns" (less Kruger) have 25 sacks in 14 games...(1.8 per game)....so an increase of 1/2 sack per game
So...all that terrible Coaching has made Kruger worse and the rest of the team better.....hmmmmm
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Not sure that's entirely fair, but it may be the best we can come up with..
I'd only take out the percentage of Kruger's sacks that were accumulated due to Kruger winning the 1:1 battle. If he is blocked but still gets the sack [eg because the QB rolled into him without looking, or the coverage downfield was good enough that Kruger pushed the guy back into the QB] that's something that any other player could get as well, and should be included back into "The Browns" tally.
This gets into the "replacement player at the position" vs "The special-ness of Kruger" debate. If Haden locks down AJ Green [yeah, I may be living in the past] and Dalton only has eyes for Green.. is that sack on Kruger or thanks to Haden?
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
By way of comparison, in 2014 we had 587 passes attempted against all season.. and accumulated 31 sacks, for a 5.3% clip. So, Cleveland is actually getting to the QB better this year as compared to last.
FYI: Last year Bills had 559 passes attempted against and 54 sacks, for 9.66% clip. That's a pretty big dropoff up north..
. That's a pretty big dropoff up north..
I think "huge dropoff" would be a good description for Buff....
And "improvement" would be a fair description for Cleveland.....
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Not sure that's entirely fair, but it may be the best we can come up with..
I'd only take out the percentage of Kruger's sacks that were accumulated due to Kruger winning the 1:1 battle. If he is blocked but still gets the sack [eg because the QB rolled into him without looking, or the coverage downfield was good enough that Kruger pushed the guy back into the QB] that's something that any other player could get as well, and should be included back into "The Browns" tally.
This gets into the "replacement player at the position" vs "The special-ness of Kruger" debate. If Haden locks down AJ Green [yeah, I may be living in the past] and Dalton only has eyes for Green.. is that sack on Kruger or thanks to Haden?
Not sure that's entirely fair, but it may be the best we can come up with..
I'd only take out the percentage of Kruger's sacks that were accumulated due to Kruger winning the 1:1 battle. If he is blocked but still gets the sack [eg because the QB rolled into him without looking, or the coverage downfield was good enough that Kruger pushed the guy back into the QB] that's something that any other player could get as well, and should be included back into "The Browns" tally.
This gets into the "replacement player at the position" vs "The special-ness of Kruger" debate. If Haden locks down AJ Green [yeah, I may be living in the past] and Dalton only has eyes for Green.. is that sack on Kruger or thanks to Haden?
I dont remember the numbers now, but I did go back through all his sacks last year and determined he had 3 or 4 that he won the "one on one" and got the QB on his own......the rest were either unblocked, came right to him or were major coverage sacks.....
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Note that the league leader in sacks this year, denver, only gets to the QB every 9% of attempts. We'd have to have 42 sacks today to get the same rate -- so we're not at that point yet. Not shocking.
The question is, though.. what should we do to improve to Denver's level? Armonty and Nate seem like decent players.. and we need a scheme change.. But do we need to focus on ILB and DL in the draft?
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yeah I dont' want another 3-4 coach period. Tired of it.
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But both of you are dismissing what NFL Head Coach first hired him to run HIS defense. Hence, I've always mentioned we have Rex Ryan's defense with Pettine Jr's wrinkles and Pettine Sr's gray hairs. Thurman varying a front for Ryan is also a wrinkle while we cover the pass just like Buffalo in 2015.
Neither Rex or Pett have 2105 defenses that have exceeded disappointment but I will take note again there's a hybrid front variation going on. Now back to your enormous list of excuses and why 3-16 football is everybody's fault but Pettine's including the popcorn vendors.
I never did get a list of players in their 2nd seasons in Pettine's defense showing improvement.
First, Mud addressed the improved list a week or so ago. It also listed players who have improved this season and players who improved under Pet last year, but have either failed to sustain or build upon their 2014 showing... and why. It was some really good work... you should find it... read it...
Second, are you claiming that our 2015 defense is no different from the one Ryan ran in Baltimore when Pet was an assistant?
Tour's quote supported your position, Flugs.
Pray tell how, since the article was about standing Williams up an increased percentage of the time.
First, Mud addressed the improved list a week or so ago. It also listed players who have improved this season and players who improved under Pet last year, but have either failed to sustain or build upon their 2014 showing... and why. It was some really good work... you should find it... read it...
Second, are you claiming that our 2015 defense is no different from the one Ryan ran in Baltimore when Pet was an assistant?
Did I even mention Baltimore once? I was actually thinking more about the NY Jets when he was hired to be the DC for the first time in his NFL career for Rex Ryan. They were 7-7 prior to beating their last 2 regular season opponents resting plenty of starters due to clinching the playoffs early. I always got the impression Ryan was very hands-on with getting his defense fully implemented before any autonomy was handed over to a 1st time DC. Their strength was their corners. NY got hot and made it to the AFC Championship. They went to the AFC Championship again the next year where I'm guessing Pettine was granted more latitude for wrinkles.
My gut says this is what Pettine had in mind here for his DC. There was even an idea/hope we'd add a top rated corner in the draft to go with Haden. Things haven't progressed well since our 7-4 start in spite of tons of injuries last year. We closed the year with 5 straight losses before arriving to 3 and 11 this year where all of our last 6 losses show us giving up 30 or more points. Without looking, I'll bet about 60% of our sacks this year came vrs TN and SF.
You're right, I should have read what Mud said in lieu of unloading my rant on all you guys.
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Nah... just good to be talking again. Only reason I mentioned BLT is because that's where Rex and Pet common coaching path started.
I've little doubt Pet was on a tight rein in NYJ... IIRC getting out of Rex's shadow was part of the reason for the move to BUF.
While I think Pet took the core philosophy of starting with strong CB play with him to BUF and CLE, I think the overall D has evolved.... or maybe devolved depending on your point of view.
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Well... you two have convinced me of one thing...
I am no longer open to scooping up Rexy as our DC once BUF dumps him in 2 weeks...
Well... you two have convinced me of one thing...
I am no longer open to scooping up Rexy as our DC once BUF dumps him in 2 weeks...
That will cost Buffalo $25 million
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That will cost Buffalo $25 million
I haven't been paying attention to the drama going down in Buffalo, are you saying this could be Rexy's last year?
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That will cost Buffalo $25 million
I haven't been paying attention to the drama going down in Buffalo, are you saying this could be Rexy's last year?
I haven't been paying attention to the drama going down in Buffalo, are you saying this could be Rexy's last year?
I can't imagine the Bills are eating that much salary and as in Cleveland who wants to coach the Bills
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Flug, your typically one of the better posters on this board but this post leaves me scratching my head.
What does Mario Williams have to do with Paul Kruger?
What does Rex Ryan have to do with Pettine?
What does the Buffalo Bills have to do with the Cleveland Browns?
Just another effort to discredit Pettine....but without any stats or facts.....just the same innuendo weve been hearing for weeks, without any backing....
Probably the reason he's using the Buffalo article to back his argument, because there are no facts, stats or articles relating to Cleveland that will support this Kruger coverage argument....
Just another effort to discredit Pettine....but without any stats or facts.....just the same innuendo weve been hearing for weeks, without any backing....
Probably the reason he's using the Buffalo article to back his argument, because there are no facts, stats or articles relating to Cleveland that will support this Kruger coverage argument....
How about 3-13 in year 2? I'd call those some important stats.
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The reason I brought up Arians was to remind people there's always somebody. Who did Minnesota choose and how is that working? How about Oakland? Seems to me there's inspired candidates for Head Coaching jobs. Ron Rivera has also turned Carolina after some early growing pains.
Ron Rivera is a horrible choice for your argument. He's been on the chopping block in Carolina for years but they stuck with him and the team has turned around. Cleveland fans would've run him out after year 2. 6-10 and 7-9 to start. Everyone in carolina hated him.
2 new coaches have worked....several haven't. It's not a guarantee that it will change if we hire the next coordinator. Could be Arians...could be Shurmer.
Ron Rivera is a horrible choice for your argument. He's been on the chopping block in Carolina for years but they stuck with him and the team has turned around. Cleveland fans would've run him out after year 2. 6-10 and 7-9 to start. Everyone in carolina hated him.
2 new coaches have worked....several haven't. It's not a guarantee that it will change if we hire the next coordinator. Could be Arians...could be Shurmer.
But obviously his teams were showing improvement . You don't see that here. We are looking at 3-13 not 7-9.
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QBs are the reason for the examples you gave flugs. simple as that. things turned around for rivera once they got newton after building his defense.........
minnesota: bridgewater and petersen. oakland: carr and cooper arizone: really? do i have to say it?
the browns have yet to address the offense for playmakers as their #1 choices in the draft. i kinda think they wanted to build the lines and the backend of the D first. maybe, if haslam doesn't clean house, they might get that opportunity. if not, then everything is gone, once again cuz the new guy will want to reshuffle the deck and do it another way.
good luck with that.
QBs are the reason for the examples you gave flugs. simple as that. things turned around for rivera once they got newton after building his defense.........
minnesota: bridgewater and petersen. oakland: carr and cooper arizone: really? do i have to say it?
the browns have yet to address the offense for playmakers as their #1 choices in the draft. i kinda think they wanted to build the lines and the backend of the D first. maybe, if haslam doesn't clean house, they might get that opportunity. if not, then everything is gone, once again cuz the new guy will want to reshuffle the deck and do it another way.
good luck with that.
Wtf are you taking about? The panthers drafted Newton #1 after going 2-14 in Fox's last year, before Riviera ever coached a game dumbass.
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Flug, your typically one of the better posters on this board but this post leaves me scratching my head.
What does Mario Williams have to do with Paul Kruger?
What does Rex Ryan have to do with Pettine?
What does the Buffalo Bills have to do with the Cleveland Browns?
Just another effort to discredit Pettine....but without any stats or facts.....just the same innuendo weve been hearing for weeks, without any backing....
Probably the reason he's using the Buffalo article to back his argument, because there are no facts, stats or articles relating to Cleveland that will support this Kruger coverage argument....
.... because there are no facts, stats or articles relating to Cleveland that will support this Kruger coverage argument....
How about 3-13 in year 2? I'd call those some important stats.
Not if we are talking about Kruger....how he is used....and how it relates to the Buffalo Defense....
And we are......
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Well you said People were posting worthless shit to discredit Pettine. All that needs to be said is 3-13.
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