2016 qb's rated
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No, not really. None of you have really done better at all.
Actually, looking back at it over the last like 5 years, here is where I stood:
2015. I was on the Danny Shelton train. Still am. And I was wanting one of the WRs Agholor or Perriman over Erving. But I knew that with Farmer picking nothing like that was happening.
2014. I was all over Khalil Mack. Or Sammy Watkins. I didn't want the trade down. With the second 1st round pick I went homer wanting Bradley Roby over JFF. It was all fun and hoopla getting Johnny....but, like I said, I was more hopeful it would work out than anything.
2013. I was thinking Dee Milliner over Mingo. Either way that would have turned out bad.
2012. I was OK with the TR pick. I like most others assumed he was the real deal. With the second pick I was on Whitney Mercilus...the local boy, or Nick Perry
2011. I was on the AJ Green bandwagon. The trade down out of that didn't bother me. (Hindsight for others said we should have just taken Julio Jones. Yea, that was hindsight). But when the trade down was made, I was hoping the Browns would take Cameron Heyward, not Phil Jackson. Again, probably an OSU/homer pick for me.
So that is where I stood on the evaluations. Overall, I could have probably done better than the Browns did.
Got it, so we're better.
Got it, so we're better.
No. I suspect that if you went back and were honest about it, your picks would have been full of busts. But I don't expect you to be honest about it for self aggrandizement purposes.
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wanted to add watched enough of Wentz that he earned that "elite game manager" North Dakota St was 29-1 the 2 years before Wentz become starting qb and 20-3 with Wentz starting....elite defense and running attack. Wentz was barely ever called to carry the team on his shoulders..lot of 200 yard passing games in his career....actually 12 under 200
watching entire games don't see a great passer when moving or what especially bothers me when playing in tight games...hence a game manager
huge contrast between Goff or Lynch who had to carry their teams on their shoulders...and often did
Wentz is the perfect qb when you draw up arm/size/intelligence but comes in #3 when I add in competitiveness
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Hogan needs to be 6 spots higher
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wanted to add watched enough of Wentz that he earned that "elite game manager" North Dakota St was 29-1 the 2 years before Wentz become starting qb and 20-3 with Wentz starting....elite defense and running attack. Wentz was barely ever called to carry the team on his shoulders..lot of 200 yard passing games in his career....actually 12 under 200
watching entire games don't see a great passer when moving or what especially bothers me when playing in tight games...hence a game manager
huge contrast between Goff or Lynch who had to carry their teams on their shoulders...and often did
Wentz is the perfect qb when you draw up arm/size/intelligence but comes in #3 when I add in competitiveness
wanted to add watched enough of Wentz that he earned that "elite game manager" North Dakota St was 29-1 the 2 years before Wentz become starting qb and 20-3 with Wentz starting....elite defense and running attack. Wentz was barely ever called to carry the team on his shoulders..lot of 200 yard passing games in his career....actually 12 under 200
watching entire games don't see a great passer when moving or what especially bothers me when playing in tight games...hence a game manager
huge contrast between Goff or Lynch who had to carry their teams on their shoulders...and often did
Wentz is the perfect qb when you draw up arm/size/intelligence but comes in #3 when I add in competitiveness
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Sorry, but your conclusion is based on the amount of yards passing...and false conclusions. That stat involves a lot
more than what you are taking it for. There's yds rushing, passing offense, or more running based. Involves quality and strengths
of defenses faces vs the offense talent...
If you listen to Wentz's head coach - you are way wrong. I heard him say so himself, that they just gave
Wentz the reins at the los. He called his own plays and protections.
Not sure if Goff ever did that, or Lynch. Bad conclusion.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/04/08/north-dakota-state-coach-carson-wentz/
"Nearly five years later, Mattern tells the story in his office, seated in front of a team championship banner. "Without him," he says, pointing at Wentz, "we don't have this"."
...didn't carry the team on his shoulders....WHAT???
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29-1 before Wentz 20-3 with Wentz= (elite)game manager
kept it simple didn't make mistakes and allowed the d and the running to do the heavy lifting...like Wentz have him #5 overall in this draft...just like Goff and Lynch more
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Okay.... it's just crazy, this draft. Who knows. But I have Wentz as absolutely the
#1 qb in this draft.
Goff at #2 of course.
Lynch needs a lot of coaching and experience before
he is ready to be an NFL starter.
Here's a terrific write up on all three. Goff with the spread offense, was allowed
to change plays, don't know if he ever called protections or not. Wentz
ran with the pro style offense and called his own everything often,
and Lynch didn't call much on his own, in a spread offense...
1a. *Wentz*
1b. Wentz
2. Goff
3. Lynch - won't be ready to start for an entire year. Amazing raw talent, though.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/23/nfl-draft-carson-wentz-jared-goff-paxton-lynch
4. Everybody else
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29-1 before Wentz 20-3 with Wentz= (elite)game manager
kept it simple didn't make mistakes and allowed the d and the running to do the heavy lifting...like Wentz have him #5 overall in this draft...just like Goff and Lynch more
One QB had full control of his offense at the LOS, calling 100% of his protections, hot routes and a completely open audible playbook. Which QB was it?29-1 before Wentz 20-3 with Wentz= (elite)game manager
kept it simple didn't make mistakes and allowed the d and the running to do the heavy lifting...like Wentz have him #5 overall in this draft...just like Goff and Lynch more
Hint: it wasn't Jared Goff.
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One QB had full control of his offense at the LOS, calling 100% of his protections, hot routes and a completely open audible playbook. Which QB was it?29-1 before Wentz 20-3 with Wentz= (elite)game manager
kept it simple didn't make mistakes and allowed the d and the running to do the heavy lifting...like Wentz have him #5 overall in this draft...just like Goff and Lynch more
Hint: it wasn't Jared Goff.
One QB had full control of his offense at the LOS, calling 100% of his protections, hot routes and a completely open audible playbook. Which QB was it?
Hint: it wasn't Jared Goff.
which QB called running plays and easy check downs..hint it also wasn't Goff
watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back
lot of easy victories....saw the same thing with Sam Bradford(another elite game manager) at Oklahoma. Wentz reminds me of Bradford. Just not 4th quarter QB's.
to another poster Lynch could easily start in 2016....Manning threw 28 int his rookie year and Cleveland ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. any avg IQ person can learn a NFL playbook..ask Elway, Marino and Bradshaw. Don't make it out to be anything special.....
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One QB had full control of his offense at the LOS, calling 100% of his protections, hot routes and a completely open audible playbook. Which QB was it?
Hint: it wasn't Jared Goff.
which QB called running plays and easy check downs..hint it also wasn't Goff
watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back
lot of easy victories....saw the same thing with Sam Bradford(another elite game manager) at Oklahoma. Wentz reminds me of Bradford. Just not 4th quarter QB's.
to another poster Lynch could easily start in 2016....Manning threw 28 int his rookie year and Cleveland ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. any avg IQ person can learn a NFL playbook..ask Elway, Marino and Bradshaw. Don't make it out to be anything special.....
which QB called running plays and easy check downs..hint it also wasn't Goff
watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back
lot of easy victories....saw the same thing with Sam Bradford(another elite game manager) at Oklahoma. Wentz reminds me of Bradford. Just not 4th quarter QB's.
to another poster Lynch could easily start in 2016....Manning threw 28 int his rookie year and Cleveland ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. any avg IQ person can learn a NFL playbook..ask Elway, Marino and Bradshaw. Don't make it out to be anything special.....
Goff couldn't have called those things, because he doesn't know how to. I'd rather take a QB that calls his own plays and isn't benefitting from being in a high-percentage offense.
I think watching 20+ years of bad Cleveland football has blinded some fans on what an actual decent QB looks like. Now we're at the point where QB's who have full control of their entire offense pre-snap and successfully audible into the right plays are considered "game managers". That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard.
Tom Brady is a hell of a game manager.
And before you get started - I've watched every collegiate snap of every QB in this draft multiple times, with the exception of some late round guys.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back
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Well, I think it's more like a brilliant qb who can fool defenses by getting the
ball to his playmakers, and coordinate the entire offense to be effective. I don't know
how many "game managers" occaisionally made huge plays reading the defense
and calling his own number once in a while.
http://www.inforum.com/sports/bison/3652794-kolpack-wentzs-title-winning-td-vaults-him-ndsu-lore
I am saying that both the top qb's are very impressive. But Wentz is the kid with ALL of "It". When
I watch Wentz in games - he has an instinctive misdirection body movement. I remember
one interview with Steve Mariuchi sp? when Steve was laughing that on a long TD run
by Wentz, he even juked a safety away from him on the play. When I read about Wentz,
I see outstanding leadership.
Goff is also impressive, but I don't see him as elusive in the pocket, he doesn't seem as sudden in
his movements...to me.
Now, on the flip side, Maruicci sp? lol.... says that Goff is the best passer in the draft. Sounds good
to me.
But at the los in the pros, under pressure..Goff had scramble drills that are impressive, but
if I imagine I'm a lb trying to get to him...Goff is easier to read as far as getting your hands
on his jersey...
I just see Wentz being a terrific, not perfect passer like Goff seems to be a "perfect passer"...but
I see Wentz as being a terrific pick for all his intangibles. Not that I want a qb to run very often
and get banged up badly. But the occaisional run to keep the defenses honest - remember -
Wentz has made huge plays running the ball after tricking the defense...
Goff - Gruden laughed about needing an airline puke bag about Goff's yards rushed. Goff
admitted it was terrible - about -1 yard...
I will be delighted with either guy of these two. But if I were picking, the all around pro style,
more intangibles, greater leader in the lockerroom/huddle/make an occaisional giant play
running for a 1st down or TD.... is Wentz, absolutely.
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Brady is a great white shark....farthest thing from a game manager you can find
not a Browns fan..from st Louis but do like Jackson and loved the old Browns teams under Kosar. Think you are way overrating calling your own plays..if Bradshaw could do it anyone can
also does anyone really think Jackson will be selecting a qb with the #2 pick? RG3/ McCown and dumping older veterans left and right. From St Louis sure looks like he is looking to trade down and pick up a bundle of picks and rebuild his roster from the ground up.. Maybe Lynch around #/10/12 or even Cardale Jones at the top of the 2nd
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The Browns may very well trade down for more high picks...
Bradshaw, though, struggled badly for a few years. He admits he
got booed badly, laughed about it.
If the Browns don't keep McCown... and RGIII gets injured again....
you don't want Lynch or Cardale to have to step in and carry the Browns
offense the rest of the season.
This draft is going to be crazy.
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Did you say Bradshaw had a few bad years? A few years is more than 18 months isn't it; which is about what these guys are going to get in Cleveland.
WSS
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which QB called running plays and easy check downs..hint it also wasn't Goff
watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back
lot of easy victories....saw the same thing with Sam Bradford(another elite game manager) at Oklahoma. Wentz reminds me of Bradford. Just not 4th quarter QB's.
to another poster Lynch could easily start in 2016....Manning threw 28 int his rookie year and Cleveland ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. any avg IQ person can learn a NFL playbook..ask Elway, Marino and Bradshaw. Don't make it out to be anything special.....
Goff couldn't have called those things, because he doesn't know how to. I'd rather take a QB that calls his own plays and isn't benefitting from being in a high-percentage offense.
I think watching 20+ years of bad Cleveland football has blinded some fans on what an actual decent QB looks like. Now we're at the point where QB's who have full control of their entire offense pre-snap and successfully audible into the right plays are considered "game managers". That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard.
Tom Brady is a hell of a game manager.
And before you get started - I've watched every collegiate snap of every QB in this draft multiple times, with the exception of some late round guys.
Goff couldn't have called those things, because he doesn't know how to. I'd rather take a QB that calls his own plays and isn't benefitting from being in a high-percentage offense.
Franklin says the biggest misconception he’s had to address is the complexity of the Bear Raid offense, a branch off the Air Raid offense developed in the late 80’s by Hal Mumme and Mike Leach, which many football types believe affords the quarterback little opportunity to make pre-snap judgment calls. They couldn’t be more wrong, Franklin says.
“People think because we’re in this Air Raid family that there’s one or two progressions for the quarterback, which is really an insult because it’s nowhere near the truth,” Franklin says. “We give the quarterback an incredible amount of responsibility and (Goff) got more than any quarterback since I’ve been coaching.
“He probably had more on his shoulders before the snap than any quarterback in the NFL.”
Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/23/nfl-draft-carson-wentz-jared-goff-paxton-lynch"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Did you say Bradshaw had a few bad years? A few years is more than 18 months isn't it; which is about what these guys are going to get in Cleveland.
WSS
Did you say Bradshaw had a few bad years? A few years is more than 18 months isn't it; which is about what these guys are going to get in Cleveland.
WSS
No....
..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both
very, very smart.
Wentz is still my pick.
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Did you say Bradshaw had a few bad years? A few years is more than 18 months isn't it; which is about what these guys are going to get in Cleveland.
WSS
No....
..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both
very, very smart.
Wentz is still my pick.
No....
..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both
very, very smart.
Wentz is still my pick.
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
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No....
..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both
very, very smart.
Wentz is still my pick.
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
Not really rumours of anything, basically nobody knows and anything could happen.
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my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland? Poplar
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And that is the question, alright. RG admits he's grown a lot. Does it mean the Browns might draft a second tier qb?
Trade down and get Lynch and keep him on the bench for a year? nobody knows. It's flat out crazy.
I'll support whatever the Browns do and whoever they pick. But, if they pick Goff over Wentz at two...
I'll fall out of my chair laughing, rof,l... and I'll just have to remind Canton Mike and Mr. Flugels to not step/stomp on me...
I don't see trade down rumors... it could happen. Suppose Dallas wants Bosa, and they think the Chargers
want him. It could happen that Dallas trades ahead of them with the Browns.... or the Chargers do a little
switch positions with the Browns to keep Dallas at bay. Sounds goofy, but I would hope it would happen,
and the Browns could still get Wentz, and out of respect for Canton Mike's mancave, I'll put my food and drink
down before I do a happy dance.
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No....
..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both
very, very smart.
Wentz is still my pick.
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
What do you mean by "high pick development QB?"
In this day and age, any team that drafts a QB #2 overall.....that guy is starting from Day One. He does not get the luxury to develop.
He must play and he must play now.
If the Browns take a guy #2....HE is our starter....not RGIII. Griffin will be the backup. Plain and simple.
On the other hand, you mean "high" like 3rd round high.....that is another matter. Yes, he sits and develops....unless he proves himself to like Russell Wilson and grabs the job by the jock right at the outset.
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No....
..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both
very, very smart.
Wentz is still my pick.
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's
looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?
This is the silly season- and there's about as many trade down rumors as goofy trade up rumors- including the Rams jumping to #1 overall to take Wentz. IMHO- the only two teams that realistically could jump the Browns are the Cowboys and 49ers- and you can bet if they do they're taking a quarterback. It would be cost prohibitive for anyone else. (the Eagles don't have a 2nd round pick this year.)
BTW, there's been rumors the Broncos are interested in McCown.
Hue has already said picking up RG III doesn't preclude the Browns taking a QB @ #2, and Griffin has stated he's cool with that scenario if it comes to pass.
Don't know if I'm in the majority of browns fans- but I like to think I am- Cleveland has been shopping the Bargain Bin, 2nd or third best rated QBs- or lower, third round guys like McCoy and Frye- Free agents like Dilfer or Garcia for well over a decade. Personally, I'm damn tired of going for factory seconds. We haven't drafted a QB in the top 5 since Couch- and I say its about damn time to pull the trigger, assuming Hue and the FO think they're Franchise caliber.
And in reply to Gip- the only "developmental" quarterback I'm interested in is Cardale Jones- and not before the third round.
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