If we draft Goff
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That guy was more style than substance. Time to develope a more focused and talented young player. You sticking around ?But we just prompted one stat guy and hired another.
I wonder if they know they would have to find the guy that pulled off those stats his last year in college in Las Vegas riding a swan?
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But we just prompted one stat guy and hired another.
I wonder if they know they would have to find the guy that pulled off those stats his last year in college in Las Vegas riding a swan?
I still don't doubt that Manziel can be an effective NFL player. He just can't get his head into the game...and that's what's killing him. His performances range from garbage to above average - and that's while partying and drinking and doing drugs and worrying about hiding his off-the-field antics from the coaches.
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable - like Russell Wilson unstoppable. But that's never going to happen.
His flaws aren't due to a lack of talent, they are due to poor choices and awful work ethic.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
But we just prompted one stat guy and hired another.
I wonder if they know they would have to find the guy that pulled off those stats his last year in college in Las Vegas riding a swan?
I still don't doubt that Manziel can be an effective NFL player. He just can't get his head into the game...and that's what's killing him. His performances range from garbage to above average - and that's while partying and drinking and doing drugs and worrying about hiding his off-the-field antics from the coaches.
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable - like Russell Wilson unstoppable. But that's never going to happen.
His flaws aren't due to a lack of talent, they are due to poor choices and awful work ethic.
And I mostly agree with that yet allow me to propose one scenario between his last two starts. One of our members regularly watches the game With some of us and agreed that in his penultimate start he was actually sharp and was killed by a multitude of drops. If in fact he actually had a concussion in his final start that might have explained the inaccurate passing.I still don't doubt that Manziel can be an effective NFL player. He just can't get his head into the game...and that's what's killing him. His performances range from garbage to above average - and that's while partying and drinking and doing drugs and worrying about hiding his off-the-field antics from the coaches.
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable - like Russell Wilson unstoppable. But that's never going to happen.
His flaws aren't due to a lack of talent, they are due to poor choices and awful work ethic.
WSS
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And I mostly agree with that yet allow me to propose one scenario between his last two starts. One of our members regularly watches the game With some of us and agreed that in his penultimate start he was actually sharp and was killed by a multitude of drops. If in fact he actually had a concussion in his final start that might have explained the inaccurate passing.I still don't doubt that Manziel can be an effective NFL player. He just can't get his head into the game...and that's what's killing him. His performances range from garbage to above average - and that's while partying and drinking and doing drugs and worrying about hiding his off-the-field antics from the coaches.
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable - like Russell Wilson unstoppable. But that's never going to happen.
His flaws aren't due to a lack of talent, they are due to poor choices and awful work ethic.
WSS
And I mostly agree with that yet allow me to propose one scenario between his last two starts. One of our members regularly watches the game With some of us and agreed that in his penultimate start he was actually sharp and was killed by a multitude of drops. If in fact he actually had a concussion in his final start that might have explained the inaccurate passing.
WSS
He's continuing to get better, his bad games this year were nothing like last year. Once again, imagine how good he could be if he had zero distractions.
The problem is that there's always new talent, and just because he CAN be great doesn't mean that others can't be. He's shown in two years now that he's not going to change his behavior any time soon and, if the reports are true, he doesn't even want to be here.
Personally, I'd rather move on with someone else who also has the potential to be great, rather than sit around and hope Manziel finds stability in his life.
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But we just prompted one stat guy and hired another.
I wonder if they know they would have to find the guy that pulled off those stats his last year in college in Las Vegas riding a swan?
I still don't doubt that Manziel can be an effective NFL player. He just can't get his head into the game...and that's what's killing him. His performances range from garbage to above average - and that's while partying and drinking and doing drugs and worrying about hiding his off-the-field antics from the coaches.
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable - like Russell Wilson unstoppable. But that's never going to happen.
His flaws aren't due to a lack of talent, they are due to poor choices and awful work ethic.
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable...
I have a great imagination.... and, no...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Imagine if he were to grow the hell up, study the game and cut all of this bullshit out. He'd be unstoppable...
I have a great imagination.... and, no...
I have a great imagination.... and, no...
What realistically makes you say that, from a talent standpoint?
His flaws insofar have been those of mental weakness, not physical. Missing open receivers is common in rookies and representative of not having a full grasp of the playbook.
All reports thus far have been that he's a great teammate in the facility and has extremely high football intelligence, so it doesn't seem likely that he can't understand concepts. It's much more likely that he's just not putting any real effort into football once he's outside the facilities.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Let's look at some other young QB's that have shown improvement, Bortles and Carr for example. There are two things that stand out to me: One, the QB gets TIME to make mistakes and to get more familiar with their duties. Secondly, they need WEAPONS. Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. A veteran with great hands that can move the sticks, and a young stud that can make the "wow" plays. Bortles has a killer receiving group that came together basically in a year or two. Heck, he has more weapons than most other teams. What we CAN'T do is draft a young QB, have him throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, and Travis Benjamin. If Gordon truly has changed, we must do everything we can to keep him. If we do, Benjamin then becomes an excellent addition, but we'll still need more talent at the WR position.
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And I mostly agree with that yet allow me to propose one scenario between his last two starts. One of our members regularly watches the game With some of us and agreed that in his penultimate start he was actually sharp and was killed by a multitude of drops. If in fact he actually had a concussion in his final start that might have explained the inaccurate passing.
WSS
He's continuing to get better, his bad games this year were nothing like last year. Once again, imagine how good he could be if he had zero distractions.
The problem is that there's always new talent, and just because he CAN be great doesn't mean that others can't be. He's shown in two years now that he's not going to change his behavior any time soon and, if the reports are true, he doesn't even want to be here.
Personally, I'd rather move on with someone else who also has the potential to be great, rather than sit around and hope Manziel finds stability in his life.
Well there's the kicker. If reports are true. These reports come from the same place they've come for the last 2 years including the weekly report that he was doing great at practice and really had a grasp on the offense in his first year. Which turned out to either be something another player made up and passed on to reporter or made up by the reporter himself. The rest of the shit is stuff from some idiots twitter feed blowing into a story by radio personalities with nothing else to talk about and reported as fact by a bunch of us.He's continuing to get better, his bad games this year were nothing like last year. Once again, imagine how good he could be if he had zero distractions.
The problem is that there's always new talent, and just because he CAN be great doesn't mean that others can't be. He's shown in two years now that he's not going to change his behavior any time soon and, if the reports are true, he doesn't even want to be here.
Personally, I'd rather move on with someone else who also has the potential to be great, rather than sit around and hope Manziel finds stability in his life.
So if I believe those reports, that he wants out, and I was in control, I would get rid of him.
Otherwise I would like to know more about the situation with him and whoever my new coaching staff is going to be.
Or I can just knee jerk and react emotionally.
.My super high draft pick can be spent on Goff, and further neglect other needs of the team which will make Goffs eventual possible success even less likely.
Especially since Goff will be expected to sit on the bench for at least a year due to the imbalance of experience between him and Josh McCown, right?
And face it it's like a 24-month automobile lease in Cleveland at the end of which you switch cars and pay an exorbitant fee for the mileage.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
That guy was more style than substance. Time to develope a more focused and talented young player. You sticking around ?But we just prompted one stat guy and hired another.
I wonder if they know they would have to find the guy that pulled off those stats his last year in college in Las Vegas riding a swan?
That guy was more style than substance. Time to develope a more focused and talented young player. You sticking around ?
Of course I am. I'm one of the few who showed up when JM came here and has stuck through it all. And as I have said before, there is still about a 10% chance he wakes up and becomes the player we have seen flashes of in games when he is totally focused and competitive. I just hope that happens before he goes elsewhere despite all the justifiably angry feelings Browns fans have for him with his ridiculous antics. I really don't like Dallas so if he awakens I want it to be with the more deserving fans. If it doesn't happen here and he either busts out or goes elsewhere, I'll still be a Browns fan. This is an enjoyable, knowledgeable website to spend time on if you are a real football fan. And only one pro player has ever captured my attention like Jim Brown and that was Bo Jackson. We never got to see the long term career I thought might just match JB's.
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NO QB!!! Fix the worst defense in the league. FIX IT!!!!
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But that requires picking a scheme and staying with it for 5+ years. So yeah nm, take a punter with the 1st pick fuck who knows right?
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Well there's the kicker. If reports are true. These reports come from the same place they've come for the last 2 years including the weekly report that he was doing great at practice and really had a grasp on the offense in his first year. Which turned out to either be something another player made up and passed on to reporter or made up by the reporter himself. The rest of the shit is stuff from some idiots twitter feed blowing into a story by radio personalities with nothing else to talk about and reported as fact by a bunch of us.He's continuing to get better, his bad games this year were nothing like last year. Once again, imagine how good he could be if he had zero distractions.
The problem is that there's always new talent, and just because he CAN be great doesn't mean that others can't be. He's shown in two years now that he's not going to change his behavior any time soon and, if the reports are true, he doesn't even want to be here.
Personally, I'd rather move on with someone else who also has the potential to be great, rather than sit around and hope Manziel finds stability in his life.
So if I believe those reports, that he wants out, and I was in control, I would get rid of him.
Otherwise I would like to know more about the situation with him and whoever my new coaching staff is going to be.
Or I can just knee jerk and react emotionally.
.My super high draft pick can be spent on Goff, and further neglect other needs of the team which will make Goffs eventual possible success even less likely.
Especially since Goff will be expected to sit on the bench for at least a year due to the imbalance of experience between him and Josh McCown, right?
And face it it's like a 24-month automobile lease in Cleveland at the end of which you switch cars and pay an exorbitant fee for the mileage.
WSS
Well there's the kicker. If reports are true. These reports come from the same place they've come for the last 2 years including the weekly report that he was doing great at practice and really had a grasp on the offense in his first year. Which turned out to either be something another player made up and passed on to reporter or made up by the reporter himself. The rest of the shit is stuff from some idiots twitter feed blowing into a story by radio personalities with nothing else to talk about and reported as fact by a bunch of us.
So if I believe those reports, that he wants out, and I was in control, I would get rid of him.
Otherwise I would like to know more about the situation with him and whoever my new coaching staff is going to be.
Or I can just need jerk and react emotionally.
.My super high draft pick can be spent on Goff, and further neglect other needs of the team which will make Goffsure eventual possible success even less likely.
Especially since Goff will be expected to sit on the bench for at least a year due to the imbalance of experience between him and Josh McCown, right?
And face it it's like a 24-month automobile lease in Cleveland at the end of which you switch cars and pay an exorbitant fee for the mileage.
WSS
Sure, you can have a knee-jerk emotional reaction. You can also be too paralyzed by fear (or too infatuated with potential) to make a change that probably needs to be made.
The fact is that he hasn't tried to deny the Vegas report once. He's already been to rehab, he's since had a domestic dispute, he's since had a video surface of him drinking at a nightclub (which he then tried to hide), he's already been dropped by one marketing agency, and he's already had our future HOF LT question his motives and maturity.
On their own, some of them are minor issues. Together, they are a whirlwind of immaturity.
Johnny Manziel isn't the last great hope for a franchise QB. Cutting ties with him doesn't mean we don't get another one. If he goes somewhere else and finds success, that's great.
But sticking with him just because he's looked decent this year and hoping that he gets his head out of his ass is an absolutely terrible way to start another rebuilding process.
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NO QB!!! Fix the worst defense in the league. FIX IT!!!!
NO QB!!! Fix the worst defense in the league. FIX IT!!!!
Because we didn't spend enough time or money on it last year. We just need to invest first rounders across the board - only then will we be good. Right?
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I have a great imagination.... and, no...
What realistically makes you say that, from a talent standpoint?
His flaws insofar have been those of mental weakness, not physical. Missing open receivers is common in rookies and representative of not having a full grasp of the playbook.
All reports thus far have been that he's a great teammate in the facility and has extremely high football intelligence, so it doesn't seem likely that he can't understand concepts. It's much more likely that he's just not putting any real effort into football once he's outside the facilities.
What realistically makes you say that, from a talent standpoint?
His flaws insofar have been those of mental weakness, not physical. Missing open receivers is common in rookies and representative of not having a full grasp of the playbook.
All reports thus far have been that he's a great teammate in the facility and has extremely high football intelligence, so it doesn't seem likely that he can't understand concepts. It's much more likely that he's just not putting any real effort into football once he's outside the facilities.
Sorry, TC... no disrespect, but I'm not going to spend time discussing JM any longer.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What realistically makes you say that, from a talent standpoint?
His flaws insofar have been those of mental weakness, not physical. Missing open receivers is common in rookies and representative of not having a full grasp of the playbook.
All reports thus far have been that he's a great teammate in the facility and has extremely high football intelligence, so it doesn't seem likely that he can't understand concepts. It's much more likely that he's just not putting any real effort into football once he's outside the facilities.
Sorry, TC... no disrespect, but I'm not going to spend time discussing JM any longer.
Sorry, TC... no disrespect, but I'm not going to spend time discussing JM any longer.
That's fine with me, I'd rather not either.
There's too much ill will around here for anyone to have a completely objective view either way.
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That's fine with me, I'd rather not either.
There's too much ill will around here for anyone to have a completely objective view either way.
I can evaluate JM entirely objectively and can say that he regularly makes the wrong read, struggles to get past the first or second progression, throws from his back foot in a clean pocket and has terrible footwork in general, leaves the pocket incorrectly consistently.
It's so frustrating watching this asshole turn around and run 15 yards to the left and throw on the move across his body to the middle of the field - when he had a wide open guy and a clean pocket if he would have just seen it, stepped up, and made the damn throw.
But it isn't worth debating since he won't be a Brown next year.
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Hey Tim, you could be right. I'm just stating what I would do if I own the team.
Odds are that the Fresh Start gang is going to come out on top. 2 years from now if we are talking about next week's playoff game and how our new guy, Goff, will do then great.
If, on the other hand, we're blathering about which one of Mel Kiper's butt boys to select as opposed to mortgaging the farm to get a journeyman like Kirk Cousins, what exactly will have been the difference?
For all you recent convert to analytics ask yourself how often the complete reset has worked for us?
(get out your slide rules and... Start!)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
That's fine with me, I'd rather not either.
There's too much ill will around here for anyone to have a completely objective view either way.
I can evaluate JM entirely objectively and can say that he regularly makes the wrong read, struggles to get past the first or second progression, throws from his back foot in a clean pocket and has terrible footwork in general, leaves the pocket incorrectly consistently.
It's so frustrating watching this asshole turn around and run 15 yards to the left and throw on the move across his body to the middle of the field - when he had a wide open guy and a clean pocket if he would have just seen it, stepped up, and made the damn throw.
But it isn't worth debating since he won't be a Brown next year.
I can evaluate JM entirely objectively and can say that he regularly makes the wrong read, struggles to get past the first or second progression, throws from his back foot in a clean pocket and has terrible footwork in general, leaves the pocket incorrectly consistently.
It's so frustrating watching this asshole turn around and run 15 yards to the left and throw on the move across his body to the middle of the field - when he had a wide open guy and a clean pocket if he would have just seen it, stepped up, and made the damn throw.
But it isn't worth debating since he won't be a Brown next year.
Can I just copy off of your paper?
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Hey Tim, you could be right. I'm just stating what I would do if I own the team.
Odds are that the Fresh Start gang is going to come out on top. 2 years from now if we are talking about next week's playoff game and how our new guy, Goff, will do then great.
If, on the other hand, we're blathering about which one of Mel Kiper's butt boys to select as opposed to mortgaging the farm to get a journeyman like Kirk Cousins, what exactly will have been the difference?
For all you recent convert to analytics ask yourself how often the complete reset has worked for us?
(get out your slide rules and... Start!)
WSS
Hey Tim, you could be right. I'm just stating what I would do if I own the team.
Odds are that the Fresh Start gang is going to come out on top. 2 years from now if we are talking about next week's playoff game and how our new guy, Goff, will do then great.
If, on the other hand, we're blathering about which one of Mel Kiper's butt boys to select as opposed to mortgaging the farm to get a journeyman like Kirk Cousins, what exactly will have been the difference?
For all you recent convert to analytics ask yourself how often the complete reset has worked for us?
(get out your slide rules and... Start!)
WSS
By that same reasoning, you can ask yourself any number of questions.
How many times has taking a non-consensus top ranked QB worked for us?
How many times has a QB with off-field concerns worked out in the NFL?
How many times have sub 6'-1" QB's worked out in the NFL?
There's any number of leading questions you can ask behind the guise of analytics. Each question will point to a different strategy.
The trick of it is throwing out the meaningless or inconclusive data and developing a strategy around the metrics that have a high causal relationship with success. What those metrics are? I have a few inklings, but I'm sure we're just scratching the surface.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Hey Tim, you could be right. I'm just stating what I would do if I own the team.
Odds are that the Fresh Start gang is going to come out on top. 2 years from now if we are talking about next week's playoff game and how our new guy, Goff, will do then great.
If, on the other hand, we're blathering about which one of Mel Kiper's butt boys to select as opposed to mortgaging the farm to get a journeyman like Kirk Cousins, what exactly will have been the difference?
For all you recent convert to analytics ask yourself how often the complete reset has worked for us?
(get out your slide rules and... Start!)
WSS
....a journeyman like Kirk Cousins
I don't want Cousins here, especially since it would cost us more than he's worth - but he doesn't fit the definition of "journeyman" (yet)
Our long-term guy isn't on the roster. The best place to find the long-term guy is in the draft.
By all accounts if Goff is worth a #2 pick (he is), you take him there. The Browns haven't done this in a long time - the idea is nice that we can wait for our usual reject to develop or sign a young FA reject. But you have a top prospect, you take him. The idea would be you probably don't want to plan on tanking 2 years later to get another pick for the next top prospect.
You take him when you have the chance, like we do.
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