Scheme Induced O-Line Personnel Changes
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We need one OL coach & Hue to be the leader of what scheme we will run period. Flip comes in & OL men want to stick with Shanny's ZBS did not work? When we started to get away from it with Pazor in 9'ers game & Seattle & KC it looked better imo. The Personal is not the issue it's blending schemes? Tour your call?
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
Good God.
Zombo
--Where can I buy tickets?
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We need one OL coach & Hue to be the leader of what scheme we will run period. Flip comes in & OL men want to stick with Shanny's ZBS did not work? When we started to get away from it with Pazor in 9'ers game & Seattle & KC it looked better imo. The Personal is not the issue it's blending schemes? Tour your call?
Tour your call?
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
More power less ZBS would at least illustrate if this O Line has the nuts PFF claims it has.
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"Greco can legitimately play all 3 interior line spots "
"Greco makes under $1 million per year. Financially speaking, Greco is a worthwhile commodity".
"They may well release Greco to add youth to develop on the offensive line".
This guys all over the place.
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Tour your call?
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
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Tour your call?
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
Power run game huh? So our #2 is Henry after all?
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Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
Only problem is Manziel has worn out his welcome in Cleveland. Did you miss that hilarious spoof before the Carolina- Seattle game featuring Betty White? She wouldn't even talk to Manziel.
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If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
Power run game huh? So our #2 is Henry after all?
Power run game huh? So our #2 is Henry after all?
Just like I said about my Mock Sim... if he falls into the 3rd round, then why not?
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we're not going "anywhere" with this o line. period. They are not strong enough to compete with the upper level defense's in this league.
we're not going "anywhere" with this o line. period. They are not strong enough to compete with the upper level defense's in this league.
For the 3714th time, our OL was GOOD this year.
The run game and passpro sucked because the blocking of non-OL positions weren't just the league worst.. they were 5 times below the league average.
Barnidge is a dumpster fire of a blocker. Johnson shouldn't be on an NFL team.
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Hue has said we need a new qb for the future. Might not be Goff, a lot of time,
combine, etc etc etc.
Maybe Wentz wows scouts and coaches with far more ability to read
defenses and make quick decisions than he got to show in college.
But the Browns have the high pick to get the qb they want. JM is gone. It's classy
to not say that, and interview the players first, and not throw him under the bus, Pettine style.
But he has worn out his welcome, and the players around him deserve a hell of a lot better.
BTW, Goff is a student of the game, loves the game. Even if Wentz turns out to be the guy..
you have to just take him at two.
The offensive line is fine...actually, it's excellent. Cam knows he has to get stronger, and will.
And the Browns oline blocked a lot better when it wasn't a zbs. A lot of olines have a far easier
time of it, because they have the wr's to get open.
BTW, Bito struggled only because of injuries. With a bigtime qb, and a couple of star wide receivers,
the Browns offense could rock. I mean, they put up 33 points against Denver. They aren't that far away.
My bet is, that not only are many assistants wanting to coach under Hue, but a lot of free agents
will now look at Cleveland, and want to come here.
"Tearing up the entire oline" ? HC's all over the NFL would love to have the Browns oline.
It's the LACK OF WR's who can get open. I mean, seriously, come on, man. It's the wr's. The Browns
need TWO new starters next year. You could draft one in the second round, another later....
and...maybe sign Sanu as a fa. The Hue connection.....
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I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Browns had the second highest sacks allowed in the league. By one.
I don't believe this is because the RB couldn't pick up the blitz, either.
Browns QB has a defender on him in 3 seconds or less.
If you're running a pocket passing offense, until this is fixed any QB will get murdered.
It won't matter what WRs they have, either. There's no time to let a play develop to throw to them.
IF your offense MUST be designed around the pass, then the only ways to compensate for the O-line sieve is to design an offense with more bodies to block; design an offense around a mobile QB; or to design plays that only take 3 seconds to execute.
You could run a 2 or 3 tight end offense.
You could use a full backfield of RB and FB to pick up blitz (do they even have a FB?)
You design plays for a roll-out QB (hmm.. do we have one of those?...)
You design plays that take 3 seconds to execute.
If you watch the Patriots, they run a lot of plays that take only 3 seconds. Brady throws the ball to a receiver crossing over the middle in 3 seconds. 5 yard gain each time.
You also need a fast receiver in order to execute those plays. (hmmm... Do we have a fast receiver already?...)
So, live with an O-line that is a sieve and compensate for it, or fix the O-line.
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I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Browns had the second highest sacks allowed in the league. By one.
I don't believe this is because the RB couldn't pick up the blitz, either.
Browns QB has a defender on him in 3 seconds or less.
If you're running a pocket passing offense, until this is fixed any QB will get murdered.
It won't matter what WRs they have, either. There's no time to let a play develop to throw to them.
IF your offense MUST be designed around the pass, then the only ways to compensate for the O-line sieve is to design an offense with more bodies to block; design an offense around a mobile QB; or to design plays that only take 3 seconds to execute.
You could run a 2 or 3 tight end offense.
You could use a full backfield of RB and FB to pick up blitz (do they even have a FB?)
You design plays for a roll-out QB (hmm.. do we have one of those?...)
You design plays that take 3 seconds to execute.
If you watch the Patriots, they run a lot of plays that take only 3 seconds. Brady throws the ball to a receiver crossing over the middle in 3 seconds. 5 yard gain each time.
You also need a fast receiver in order to execute those plays. (hmmm... Do we have a fast receiver already?...)
So, live with an O-line that is a sieve and compensate for it, or fix the O-line.
I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Mostly grading data of individuals... some by me... mostly by ProFootballFocus (PFF). All five of our starters graded out very well with a couple (Thomas and Schwartz) graded the best at their position. Problem was that the whole was much less than the sum of the parts.
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Interestingly you just picked up Terrell Watson from the Bengals. Watson is an explosive power runner who Bengals rate very highly and definitely did NOT want to give up, but we have too much talent in this position. Good pick up by the Browns IMO.
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Interestingly you just picked up Terrell Watson from the Bengals. Watson is an explosive power runner who Bengals rate very highly and definitely did NOT want to give up, but we have too much talent in this position. Good pick up by the Browns IMO.
Interestingly you just picked up Terrell Watson from the Bengals. Watson is an explosive power runner who Bengals rate very highly and definitely did NOT want to give up, but we have too much talent in this position. Good pick up by the Browns IMO.
Papa Hue definitely saw some good stuff in him. I hope it works out, but we'll see.
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I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Browns had the second highest sacks allowed in the league. By one.
I don't believe this is because the RB couldn't pick up the blitz, either.
Browns QB has a defender on him in 3 seconds or less. Brownpile
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Our oline is great. The stats don't mean the Browns oline is terrible.
The situation is. Defenses know they don't have to fear the Browns wr.s
That's the problem. They double or triple cover Barnidge, have their best cb
cover Travis deep, and they shut down the run, end of story.
That happens all too often. Remarkably, McCown knew best on how to handle that.
That's 451 yards of offense with good matchups for a change.
What would Tom Brady's stats be without Gronk and Edelman sp? Very bad.
When a defense goes into an all out blitz, and the qb has nobody open to throw to, I don't understand
why anybody would think the qb sucks. All he can do is scramble maybe.
You let the Browns get a couple of top tier wr's in the mix, and a real bigtime qb... and watch
how the oline is great.
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I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Browns had the second highest sacks allowed in the league. By one.
I don't believe this is because the RB couldn't pick up the blitz, either.
Browns QB has a defender on him in 3 seconds or less. Brownpile
*****************************************************
Our oline is great. The stats don't mean the Browns oline is terrible.
The situation is. Defenses know they don't have to fear the Browns wr.s
That's the problem. They double or triple cover Barnidge, have their best cb
cover Travis deep, and they shut down the run, end of story.
That happens all too often. Remarkably, McCown knew best on how to handle that.
That's 451 yards of offense with good matchups for a change.
What would Tom Brady's stats be without Gronk and Edelman sp? Very bad.
When a defense goes into an all out blitz, and the qb has nobody open to throw to, I don't understand
why anybody would think the qb sucks. All he can do is scramble maybe.
You let the Browns get a couple of top tier wr's in the mix, and a real bigtime qb... and watch
how the oline is great.
Our oline is great. The stats don't mean the Browns oline is terrible.
The stats actually say the OL is great.
It's the eye test that says otherwise.
PFF said our unit was the 5th best this year. JT and Schwartz being great, with interior OL not playing as well as they have in other years. They said Erving was a total dud, which is true.
Overall pretty solid unit, Bitonio and Mack had slumps this year.
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these discussions on whether the offensive line is either really good or really bad never really interested me, but I will say this: our offense, for the most part, was NOT GOOD last year. Look at how many games we scored an insufficient number of points *on offense*. The defense and offense were both poor for much of the season. The offense had about a 2 game stretch where they played well(the baltimore and san diego games), and somehow that 2 game stretch created this false impression that the offense wasnt a big problem. I'd say our defense, as bad as it was most of the year, actually put us in better positions to win some games than the offense. But whatever they both sucked. The denver game still pisses me off because that was a game our defense actually turned in a great performance and our offense just shit the bed again and again and again when the game was there for the taking. Mccown's last two sacks(and the int between them) were just horrific.....those are the three plays that cost us that game.
but I'm just rambling with the above....what I laugh about is when I read glowing reviews from guys in here about how all the individual components of the offense is doing well. One guy points out how pff rates are offensive line this...and god knows we've heard how "qb has not been a problem this year"(it has been)....and then crap like "Barnridge is a true threat and benji has come on".....jesus christ that's greater than 90% of the offense!! If all those pieces were playing well, then our offense wouldnt have sucked so bad. Then someone says "it's just the sum of the parts is greater than the whole". No no no no....you can't make that assessment. Football is a team game. If a player isn't playing well with others, that GOES TO his individual performance.
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Interestingly you just picked up Terrell Watson from the Bengals. Watson is an explosive power runner who Bengals rate very highly and definitely did NOT want to give up, but we have too much talent in this position. Good pick up by the Browns IMO.
Interestingly you just picked up Terrell Watson from the Bengals. Watson is an explosive power runner who Bengals rate very highly and definitely did NOT want to give up, but we have too much talent in this position. Good pick up by the Browns IMO.
too much talent?? Jeremy Hill blew chunks last year...he was GODAWFUL. He also fumbled away their season with a couple minutes left against the steelers. The fact that Jeremy Hill got as many carries as he did last year(despite him sucking so badly all year) actually goes against Terrell Watson being very good.
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Interestingly you just picked up Terrell Watson from the Bengals. Watson is an explosive power runner who Bengals rate very highly and definitely did NOT want to give up, but we have too much talent in this position. Good pick up by the Browns IMO.
too much talent?? Jeremy Hill blew chunks last year...he was GODAWFUL. He also fumbled away their season with a couple minutes left against the steelers. The fact that Jeremy Hill got as many carries as he did last year(despite him sucking so badly all year) actually goes against Terrell Watson being very good.
too much talent?? Jeremy Hill blew chunks last year...he was GODAWFUL. He also fumbled away their season with a couple minutes left against the steelers. The fact that Jeremy Hill got as many carries as he did last year(despite him sucking so badly all year) actually goes against Terrell Watson being very good.
If Watson sucks, I highly doubt that Hue Jackson would go out of his way to make sure the kid got signed. He may see potential there given he saw him in practice regularly. We shall see.
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