Scheme Induced O-Line Personnel Changes
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Just read a Fansided article: Cleveland Browns: John Greco's Future in Flux by Peter Smith
http://nflspinzone.com/2016/01/17/cleveland-browns-john-grecos-future-flux/
Writer's take is that Greco is the least suited to Hue's expected shift from the Shanny/Flip ZBS-leaning schemes to a Power/Gap scheme. I could not agree less.
Greco dropped weight to adapt to Shanny's scheme and he unexpectedly did well in the ZBS. John appeared to have put some weight back on in 2015 when Flip's scheme brought back more of the power game while primarily still ZBS oriented. And again John did very well.
To put it plainly... to my eye John is the best power blocker of our 2015 opening-day five. So I do not have a clue what Peter Smith is basing his article upon.
Joe is Joe... schemes matter little, but if I had to chose an ideal one for him, it'd be the ZBS.
I love Bito, but he made his name in Shanny's ZBS and struggled year 2.
Might be the injury recovery, but I'd say the same for Mack as I did Bito... if it mattered.
As for Mitch, no doubt he had a better 2015, but I'd prefer to attribute that to his development and not any scheme shift. Still... I'd expect him to do well in a Power scheme.
There is little doubt that a shift to a power scheme is not a plus for Erving... regardless of the slot he fills.
Anyway that's my take... Mr. Smith is barking up the wrong tree if he's at JG's.
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Frankly i wouldn't mind seeing the whole unit tore up. Our QB's got killed this year from our O line releasing primary pass rushers into the QB's dick and balls. I've had enough on both sides of the ball. Our trench guys are shit with the exception of Shelton, Des, JT and Mack. Those are the only guys I see on the field that are at least comparable to top NFL talent.
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Frankly i wouldn't mind seeing the whole unit tore up. Our QB's got killed this year from our O line releasing primary pass rushers into the QB's dick and balls. I've had enough on both sides of the ball. Our trench guys are shit with the exception of Shelton, Des, JT and Mack. Those are the only guys I see on the field that are at least comparable to top NFL talent.
Frankly i wouldn't mind seeing the whole unit tore up.
Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
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Frankly i wouldn't mind seeing the whole unit tore up.
Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
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we're not going "anywhere" with this o line. period. They are not strong enough to compete with the upper level defense's in this league.
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If you need an oil change, don't need to replace the engine.
Or if there's a hole in the wall don't need to tear it down.
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We need one OL coach & Hue to be the leader of what scheme we will run period. Flip comes in & OL men want to stick with Shanny's ZBS did not work? When we started to get away from it with Pazor in 9'ers game & Seattle & KC it looked better imo. The Personal is not the issue it's blending schemes? Tour your call?
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
Good God.
Zombo
--Where can I buy tickets?
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We need one OL coach & Hue to be the leader of what scheme we will run period. Flip comes in & OL men want to stick with Shanny's ZBS did not work? When we started to get away from it with Pazor in 9'ers game & Seattle & KC it looked better imo. The Personal is not the issue it's blending schemes? Tour your call?
Tour your call?
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
More power less ZBS would at least illustrate if this O Line has the nuts PFF claims it has.
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"Greco can legitimately play all 3 interior line spots "
"Greco makes under $1 million per year. Financially speaking, Greco is a worthwhile commodity".
"They may well release Greco to add youth to develop on the offensive line".
This guys all over the place.
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Tour your call?
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
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Tour your call?
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
Power run game huh? So our #2 is Henry after all?
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Yikes
You wanna see a rookie QB get killed, this is how to do it.
I still don't believe the unit is as bad as many are making them out to be.
We have a good OL unit and too many other needs. It'll take more than one off season to repair the damage of losing JT, Mack, and Schwartz (worst case scenario IMO)
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
no because i dont' think we should take a rookie QB. I would leave McCown and Manziel right where they are until the O line gets rebuilt. Wait for the right guy to come out of the draft or trade for him. Why not let McCown and JM run around for their lives for a year or two while the rest of the team gets rebuilt?
Only problem is Manziel has worn out his welcome in Cleveland. Did you miss that hilarious spoof before the Carolina- Seattle game featuring Betty White? She wouldn't even talk to Manziel.
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If you insist...
All O's seem to be a blend of ZBS and power schemes... just a matter of which scheme you lean towards and how much. (Awesome insight, huh?) I actually think our RB duo was better suited to the Power/Gap approach, but only because they were neither patient nor alert enough to run behind the ZBS.
Myself... I keep a blend going and then see what is working... but I do not think that is what Hue will do.
I think Hue is looking for an AFCN attitude to be represented by a Power run game and a Defense.
Power run game huh? So our #2 is Henry after all?
Power run game huh? So our #2 is Henry after all?
Just like I said about my Mock Sim... if he falls into the 3rd round, then why not?
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we're not going "anywhere" with this o line. period. They are not strong enough to compete with the upper level defense's in this league.
we're not going "anywhere" with this o line. period. They are not strong enough to compete with the upper level defense's in this league.
For the 3714th time, our OL was GOOD this year.
The run game and passpro sucked because the blocking of non-OL positions weren't just the league worst.. they were 5 times below the league average.
Barnidge is a dumpster fire of a blocker. Johnson shouldn't be on an NFL team.
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Hue has said we need a new qb for the future. Might not be Goff, a lot of time,
combine, etc etc etc.
Maybe Wentz wows scouts and coaches with far more ability to read
defenses and make quick decisions than he got to show in college.
But the Browns have the high pick to get the qb they want. JM is gone. It's classy
to not say that, and interview the players first, and not throw him under the bus, Pettine style.
But he has worn out his welcome, and the players around him deserve a hell of a lot better.
BTW, Goff is a student of the game, loves the game. Even if Wentz turns out to be the guy..
you have to just take him at two.
The offensive line is fine...actually, it's excellent. Cam knows he has to get stronger, and will.
And the Browns oline blocked a lot better when it wasn't a zbs. A lot of olines have a far easier
time of it, because they have the wr's to get open.
BTW, Bito struggled only because of injuries. With a bigtime qb, and a couple of star wide receivers,
the Browns offense could rock. I mean, they put up 33 points against Denver. They aren't that far away.
My bet is, that not only are many assistants wanting to coach under Hue, but a lot of free agents
will now look at Cleveland, and want to come here.
"Tearing up the entire oline" ? HC's all over the NFL would love to have the Browns oline.
It's the LACK OF WR's who can get open. I mean, seriously, come on, man. It's the wr's. The Browns
need TWO new starters next year. You could draft one in the second round, another later....
and...maybe sign Sanu as a fa. The Hue connection.....
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I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Browns had the second highest sacks allowed in the league. By one.
I don't believe this is because the RB couldn't pick up the blitz, either.
Browns QB has a defender on him in 3 seconds or less.
If you're running a pocket passing offense, until this is fixed any QB will get murdered.
It won't matter what WRs they have, either. There's no time to let a play develop to throw to them.
IF your offense MUST be designed around the pass, then the only ways to compensate for the O-line sieve is to design an offense with more bodies to block; design an offense around a mobile QB; or to design plays that only take 3 seconds to execute.
You could run a 2 or 3 tight end offense.
You could use a full backfield of RB and FB to pick up blitz (do they even have a FB?)
You design plays for a roll-out QB (hmm.. do we have one of those?...)
You design plays that take 3 seconds to execute.
If you watch the Patriots, they run a lot of plays that take only 3 seconds. Brady throws the ball to a receiver crossing over the middle in 3 seconds. 5 yard gain each time.
You also need a fast receiver in order to execute those plays. (hmmm... Do we have a fast receiver already?...)
So, live with an O-line that is a sieve and compensate for it, or fix the O-line.
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I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Browns had the second highest sacks allowed in the league. By one.
I don't believe this is because the RB couldn't pick up the blitz, either.
Browns QB has a defender on him in 3 seconds or less.
If you're running a pocket passing offense, until this is fixed any QB will get murdered.
It won't matter what WRs they have, either. There's no time to let a play develop to throw to them.
IF your offense MUST be designed around the pass, then the only ways to compensate for the O-line sieve is to design an offense with more bodies to block; design an offense around a mobile QB; or to design plays that only take 3 seconds to execute.
You could run a 2 or 3 tight end offense.
You could use a full backfield of RB and FB to pick up blitz (do they even have a FB?)
You design plays for a roll-out QB (hmm.. do we have one of those?...)
You design plays that take 3 seconds to execute.
If you watch the Patriots, they run a lot of plays that take only 3 seconds. Brady throws the ball to a receiver crossing over the middle in 3 seconds. 5 yard gain each time.
You also need a fast receiver in order to execute those plays. (hmmm... Do we have a fast receiver already?...)
So, live with an O-line that is a sieve and compensate for it, or fix the O-line.
I'm not sure what people are looking at when they say our O-line is good.
Mostly grading data of individuals... some by me... mostly by ProFootballFocus (PFF). All five of our starters graded out very well with a couple (Thomas and Schwartz) graded the best at their position. Problem was that the whole was much less than the sum of the parts.
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