Camp Goff

gftChris

@emdiggy said:

We'll see as they'll have to play it out on the field

Tell you what - if Jones wins a playoff game or goes to the pro-bowl before goff, I'll buy you a beer (when you're in London!)

Mike H

Something odd about those rankings.

Also, had not watched Dalyn Williams before. Like the small amount I watched on your video, Em.

jiggins7919

I'm actually one of the few people that probably doesn't care which direction we go. I'm putting my entire faith in our talent people, and trusting them to make the right call. I'll be happy with whomever we pick at QB, assuming we DO draft one at number two. I wouldn't put it past our people to take another position, or draft down. I don't think we're going to draft a QB JUST to draft one. That being said, if one or both of these guys (or Lynch) fits the bill, we must pull the trigger, and not get cute by trying to trade down.

Tour2ma

Well.. we got Kiper in a close one... at least for this week.

Headline says "coin-flip", Mel's mock sent Wentz to us, but in the article...

"Goff's the better passer,'' he said. "Wentz has mobility but Goff can move around in the pocket. Certainly for Goff, if he was a little bigger right now than he is in terms of the weight, I don't think there'd be any question he'd be the first quarterback taken. And I still have Goff rating-wise ahead of Carson Wentz.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/jared_goff_or_carson_wentz_browns.html#incart_m-rpt-1

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

Well.. we got Kiper in a close one... at least for this week.

Headline says "coin-flip", Mel's mock sent Wentz to us, but in the article...

"Goff's the better passer,'' he said. "Wentz has mobility but Goff can move around in the pocket. Certainly for Goff, if he was a little bigger right now than he is in terms of the weight, I don't think there'd be any question he'd be the first quarterback taken. And I still have Goff rating-wise ahead of Carson Wentz.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/jared_goff_or_carson_wentz_browns.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Interesting quotes at the end of that article Tour.

Kiper raised the possibility that the Browns pick another position at No. 2 and take a quarterback with their No. 32 overall pick.

"Do they even pass on both of them and take say (Florida State cornerback) Jalen Ramsey to help that secondary and then look to the quarterback in the early second round?'' he said. "It happened in Cincinnati with A.J. Green and Andy Dalton. Happened in Oakland with Khalil Mack and then Derek Carr. Happened in San Diego with LaDainain Tomlinson and Drew Brees. So teams have worked that formula effectively on three different occasions. So maybe they could take another player like Ramsey and then get the quarterback early second, gamble that Lynch would be there.

"Maybe they like Connor Cook from Michigan State. Maybe they like (Penn State's Christian) Hackenberg. Maybe they like (Mississippi State's Dak) Prescott. (Maybe there's) somebody else that Hue Jackson feels 'hey I can get one of those three guys in the second round, I don't need to take a quarterback at two,' So we'll see.''

Mike H

Ramsey was a guy Tony Pauline said he heard was going to go No. 2 overall. Whether that's to Browns or someone trading up, is the question... if there's any validity to what he heard.

Tour2ma

And now Mayock agrees that Goff is the QB for us?

Mike Mayock: Browns Should Draft Jared Goff

By Joe Ginley  @JoeGinley on Feb 23, 2016, 12:01p

Two camps have emerged among NFL Draft junkies and team executives: Team Jared and Team Wentz.

Count NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock firmly in Team Wentz.

However, the draft analyst believes Jared Goff would be the better fit for the Cleveland Browns.

Mayock talked quarterbacks during an appearance on the Rich EisenShow on Monday. The former CBS and NBC analyst focused on the choice between Jared Goff and Carson Wentz.

Mayock began his interview by speaking about discussing the differences between Wentz and Goff, both talented, but very different quarterbacks.

"The first piece of it is some people are Wentz guys, some people are Goff guys around the league. If you're a Goff guy, it's because he's more polished and ready to go day one. He's got beautiful pocket awareness, really good feet, the ball comes out quickly with a quick release, he's accurate with good arm strength.

"If you're Cleveland at No. 2, and you're looking for a quarterback ready to go on day one, he's the more logical guy today."

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/2/23/11099382/mike-mayock-browns-should-draft-jared-goff

Personally I think his rationale sucks. For one, it ignores the existence of McCown. For another, he makes a significant leap when he assumes Wentz can ascend to the heights Goff has already achieved let alone those Luck has. Lastly, he does not allow for the further development of the guy he knows has shown the capability to develop.

I like Mayock, but this smacks of CYA... and I'm not used to getting that from Mayock. Very disappointing...

Mark O · on Feb 23, 2016, 12:01p

@tour2ma said:

Personally I think his rationale sucks. For one, it ignores the existence of McCown. For another, he makes a significant leap when he assumes Wentz can ascend to the heights Goff has already achieved let alone those Luck has. Lastly, he does not allow for the further development of the guy he knows has shown the capability to develop.

I like Mayock, but this smacks of CYA... and I'm not used to getting that from Mayock. Very disappointing...

I don't follow all of this as close as a lot of you but I heard another NFL network guy last week talking draft and he basically ignored McCown as well essentially saying the Browns need a QB who can start from day 1 and I don't quite understand that. McCown played just fine last year. No he's not a long term answer and he's not Tom Brady but he doesn't suck. Hell, he'd probably rank in the top 5 easy of QB's we've had since 1999.

Tim Couch Pulls Out · on Feb 23, 2016, 12:01p

@tour2ma said:

And now Mayock agrees that Goff is the QB for us?

Mike Mayock: Browns Should Draft Jared Goff

By Joe Ginley  @JoeGinley on Feb 23, 2016, 12:01p

Two camps have emerged among NFL Draft junkies and team executives: Team Jared and Team Wentz.

Count NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock firmly in Team Wentz.

However, the draft analyst believes Jared Goff would be the better fit for the Cleveland Browns.

Mayock talked quarterbacks during an appearance on the Rich EisenShow on Monday. The former CBS and NBC analyst focused on the choice between Jared Goff and Carson Wentz.

Mayock began his interview by speaking about discussing the differences between Wentz and Goff, both talented, but very different quarterbacks.

"The first piece of it is some people are Wentz guys, some people are Goff guys around the league. If you're a Goff guy, it's because he's more polished and ready to go day one. He's got beautiful pocket awareness, really good feet, the ball comes out quickly with a quick release, he's accurate with good arm strength.

"If you're Cleveland at No. 2, and you're looking for a quarterback ready to go on day one, he's the more logical guy today."

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/2/23/11099382/mike-mayock-browns-should-draft-jared-goff

Personally I think his rationale sucks. For one, it ignores the existence of McCown. For another, he makes a significant leap when he assumes Wentz can ascend to the heights Goff has already achieved let alone those Luck has. Lastly, he does not allow for the further development of the guy he knows has shown the capability to develop.

I like Mayock, but this smacks of CYA... and I'm not used to getting that from Mayock. Very disappointing...

To what extent can Goff really develop further? If we assume there's a capacity for every single aspect, you'd have to assume he's closer to his capacity for mental and technical attributes than Wentz is...and it's not as if Goff is going to grow two inches and thirty pounds. I'm not saying he's reached his ceiling, but he just logically has less room for growth than Wentz does.

Tour2ma

Yes, less room... also much less distance to perfection.

Goff can work progressions faster and improve defense recognition. He can also get stronger... including his arm. And the chances he will do all three seem increased by his past growth in all three areas.

The height difference is 1.1" last I checked, but only a couple days until the Combine measurements are out. But even if 2" the impact of that and 20 pounds on a ceiling is minimal compared to mechanics and mental acuity.

tiamat63

So... Just stopping in here to say 'hi'.

Nothing crazy, not planting a flag or anything.

calfoxwc

Goff is more pro ready, but you can't coach max arm strength,

and leadership....or hand size..

They will throw at the combine, we'll get an idea if his arm/hands might

hinder him in the NFL.

Or, he may be all that, and can throw the hell out of the ball just fine.

But "rumor" has it, Goff has small hands. We'll see - but playing outdoors in the

weather...

I'm in Camp Wentz. Lynch is a bit too raw - look at where Tenn. finished ... #1 in the draft.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jared-goff-s-small-hands-could-shape-nfl-draft-starting-at-no--2-185313800.html;_ylt=A0LEVi4ORs5WY6cAiJkPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybGY3bmpvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

"With Goff rumored to be measuring inwith “tiny hands” on Wednesday at the NFL scouting combine, Jackson’s answer on what he seeks from a hand-measurement standpoint could be telling.

“It matters because we play in a division where all of a sudden there’s rain and snow, and it’s different,” Jackson said. “Guys with bigger hands can grip the ball better in those environmental situations. We’re looking for a guy who fits what we’re looking for at quarterback, and so hand size is important.”

Tour2ma

What is "small"? Aaron Rogers' 9.38"?

https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7f43c74419945a51196a4e945554c3b2?convert_to_webp=true

DieHardBrownsFan

Manziel has big hands. DA was tall. So fucking what.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:

Yes, less room... also much less distance to perfection.

Goff can work progressions faster and improve defense recognition. He can also get stronger... including his arm. And the chances he will do all three seem increased by his past growth in all three areas.

The height difference is 1.1" last I checked, but only a couple days until the Combine measurements are out. But even if 2" the impact of that and 20 pounds on a ceiling is minimal compared to mechanics and mental acuity.

Shooting for perfection is the surest way to fail. Neither of these guys will be perfect, especially because there is no such thing as a perfect NFL QB.

Increased "late stage" arm strength is more a refinement of technique than strength. Goff already plants his foot and drives through most of throws decently well, I wouldn't expect there to be any noticeable difference in arm strength throughout his career. Not that he is lacking in strength, per se. Just behind Wentz.

Once again, we say "mechanics" and "mental acuity" like Wentz is some mouth breathing schlub from Podunk. He's a 4.0 student who performed admirably in a national championship game against an unknown opponent after sitting out half a year - if that doesn't speak to "mental acuity", I'm not sure anything does.

Further, his mechanics aren't bad in the least. A rather quick release more often than not, strong release point, wide base, drives his throws - his mechanics aren't the issue. Just because they aren't Goff-level doesn't make them bad. I'd say he's more mechanically sound than Mariota and Bortles were over the last few drafts - both of them were "traits" guys.

His issue is one issue only - lack of experience. Lack of experience against top competition (which matters zilch to me) and lack of experience reading defenses. That's it in its entirety. He didn't make full field reads, as noted by his lack of LTR progressions. However, the fallacy of "locking on" to his primary is overblown. Is he guilty of it, sure. But it's not nearly as big of an issue as its being made to be, given that we can't know for certain how often that actually is the case due to above average reliance on triangle reads in that system.

Literally every scouting report, from Joe Schmo to Bucky Brooks to Mike Mayock, says something along the lines of "day one starter, no. Future franchise QB, likely". Have we as Browns fans become so starved for a QB that we're willing to overlook a guy who checks EVERY SINGLE BOX WEVE BEEN ASKING FOR OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS just because he's not a day one starter?

If so, that's just unfathomable to me.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@diehardbrownsfan said:
Manziel has big hands. DA was tall. So fucking what.

Troy Aikman has big hands. Peyton Manning was tall. so fucking what.

bbedward

I mean it depends on what they mean by small. Bridgewater has 9" hands.

LogicIsForSquares

@mark-o said:

I don't follow all of this as close as a lot of you but I heard another NFL network guy last week talking draft and he basically ignored McCown as well essentially saying the Browns need a QB who can start from day 1 and I don't quite understand that. McCown played just fine last year. No he's not a long term answer and he's not Tom Brady but he doesn't suck. Hell, he'd probably rank in the top 5 easy of QB's we've had since 1999.

I think they may be considering that McCown takes an absolute beating from bad blocking or holding on to the ball too long. So the rookie could be thrown in pretty early.

Tour2ma

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Literally every scouting report, from Joe Schmo to Bucky Brooks to Mike Mayock, says something along the lines of "day one starter, no. Future franchise QB, likely". Have we as Browns fans become so starved for a QB that we're willing to overlook a guy who checks EVERY SINGLE BOX WEVE BEEN ASKING FOR OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS just because he's not a day one starter?

If so, that's just unfathomable to me.

Not every single box... As you yourself said, "Goff throws with anticipation. It's his greatest asset." Are you now saying Wentz checks that box??? the big boy box???

For me there is simply not enough difference in their ceilings to justify risking the difference between their floors. And when I say that, I do not concede that Wentz's ceiling is higher.

"Likely franchise" QB? I see franchise grade as a lock with Goff... that's his floor.

As for the whole "perfection" bit... that was with a nod and a wink... but it never hurts to be closer to it...

Mudfly

@texasag1969 said:

"Do they even pass on both of them and take say (Florida State cornerback) Jalen Ramsey to help that secondary and then look to the quarterback in the early second round?'' he said. "It happened in Cincinnati with A.J. Green and Andy Dalton. Happened in Oakland with Khalil Mack and then Derek Carr. Happened in San Diego with LaDainain Tomlinson and Drew Brees.

Ha!.....he forgot to mention it's happened here too(thrice actually).......Gilbert then Manziel.....Richardson then Weeden.....Thomas then Quinn....

If you want....you can add Colt McCoy and Charlie Frye to the mix......and thats 5 times in 10 years that we picked a QB in the early rounds.....but not as a first priority.....