Camp Goff
-
If you are talking about Tacosman's statement, I happen to think he is right.
NO ONE has a clue if any or which one of these QBs will be an outstanding QB.
After all.....most people had Weeden a low 1st or 2d rounder.
No one had Russell Wilson up there that year.
And of course there is obviously the Tom Brady example. And on the opposite extreme the Jamarcus Russell example.
You know nothing Jon Snow.
The comment concerned TacoCabana clearly relishing his ignorance with an overreliance on "no one can predict" (which ironically happens to be a prediction). If you are eager to share that stance, then I'll gladly lump you in with him.
Myself... I prefer to argue my own opinion based upon my own observations. Doesn't mean I will be right in any particular case, but overall I like my odds.
I may know nothing, but at least I'm working to fill the void.
Just because i've been right every damn time on every damn thing since I've come in here doesn't mean I know everything......and I'm not afraid to admit it.
One... do I have to drag out your introductory posts on Manziel again?
Two... do you realize how your opening undermines everything that follows?
My money is still on you being a trolling alt...
The comment concerned TacoCabana clearly relishing his ignorance with an overreliance on "no one can predict" (which ironically happens to be a prediction). If you are eager to share that stance, then I'll gladly lump you in with him.
Myself... I prefer to argue my own opinion based upon my own observations. Doesn't mean I will be right in any particular case, but overall I like my odds.
I may know nothing, but at least I'm working to fill the void.
One... do I have to drag out your introductory posts on Manziel again?
Two... do you realize how your opening undermines everything that follows?
My money is still on you being a trolling alt...
I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about with how I viewed and view Manziel. I've always been of the opinion that while he was an exciting player in college he was not likely cut out for the nfl. I've made hundreds of posts on manziel, even before this season. Can you find one or two posts on manziel which I praise him in some way? Perhaps...but you'll find(even before this season) far far more posts critical of manziel. My consistent stance of manziel(despite whatever hyperbole I used in a few introductory posts) was that he was NOT going to be a legit nfl qb.
I was right on where we would be this year. I was right on Pettine. I was right on what we would do with pettine after I was right on where we would be as a team. I was right on every manziel. I was right on every damn thing.....and a lot of you dumbasses were wrong. So I'll just leave it at that for now.
-
Tacosman has a short term memory.
-
i've been right every damn time on every damn thing since I've come in here
No but seriously Tacosman there's no such thing as a guarantee in the NFL draft. That's the reason everybody does a whole plethora of evaluation and scouting through tape, interviews, workouts to figure out the best guy - even a sure fire thing can go south.
Well, I had several sources.....most of which were verbal after hearing them on TV/Radio.
I mean, did you think I was making this shit up?
And note.....these guys make the disclaimer that this is where they evaluate their talent in relation to the rest of the pool of players in the draft....not where they think they will be drafted.
So....all along, as I said, because they are QBs these second round rated talents will still probably go high in round 1.
Those optimum scouting guys seem to think Goff will rise though, and pretty much everybody else disagrees with them on how they rank Lynch and also the overall ranking - most have Goff/Wentz graded as first round talent overall by all positions, not based on projected draft position.
No but seriously Tacosman there's no such thing as a guarantee in the NFL draft. That's the reason everybody does a whole plethora of evaluation and scouting through tape, interviews, workouts to figure out the best guy - even a sure fire thing can go south.
Those optimum scouting guys seem to think Goff will rise though, and pretty much everybody else disagrees with them on how they rank Lynch and also the overall ranking - most have Goff/Wentz graded as first round talent overall by all positions, not based on projected draft position.
yes, the majority do have goff and wentz rated as first round talent overall....but the majority of first round overall qbs are still a very mixed bag in terms of where they are likely to fall on the spectrum eventually. There is so much eventual variance in terms of guys drafted in the first two rounds at qb past a certain point(past that Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck level)......is a guy graded #11 overall more likely to have a good career as a qb than a guy graded #21 overall? Sure, I guess....but it's marginal and you're still in a very mixed range in terms of what to expect. Could be good, could be bad, could be ok. Goff, whether he is the highest rated qb in this class or not(and whether he is a first round grade overall or not...he is I guess) is certainly going to fall within that spectrum as a qb.
-
Tacosman has a short term memory.
Bullshit I can list dozens of posts where I bashed manziel the player before all this off the field stuff this year started happening. I was harder on manziel than most of his detractors. I wanted to see him start over mccown and that was still the right decision.
I was right on with every single damn key event this season....if many of the posters here predictions had panned out we would be going to the 2017 with Mike Pettine. no thanks. I was the loudest voice all along saying "this idiot is fired at the end of the year"....and I was saying that EARLY ON. So yeah...I'm going to be reminding people of that, especially when a lot of those same people were saying "pettine will be back, deal with it".
The browns were right to fire pettine....and you could see that happening at the beginning of the year. As I predicted.
-
Tacosman has a short term memory.
Bullshit I can list dozens of posts where I bashed manziel the player before all this off the field stuff this year started happening. I was harder on manziel than most of his detractors. I wanted to see him start over mccown and that was still the right decision.
I was right on with every single damn key event this season....if many of the posters here predictions had panned out we would be going to the 2017 with Mike Pettine. no thanks. I was the loudest voice all along saying "this idiot is fired at the end of the year"....and I was saying that EARLY ON. So yeah...I'm going to be reminding people of that, especially when a lot of those same people were saying "pettine will be back, deal with it".
The browns were right to fire pettine....and you could see that happening at the beginning of the year. As I predicted.
Bullshit I can list dozens of posts where I bashed manziel the player before all this off the field stuff this year started happening. I was harder on manziel than most of his detractors. I wanted to see him start over mccown and that was still the right decision.
I was right on with every single damn key event this season....if many of the posters here predictions had panned out we would be going to the 2017 with Mike Pettine. no thanks. I was the loudest voice all along saying "this idiot is fired at the end of the year"....and I was saying that EARLY ON. So yeah...I'm going to be reminding people of that, especially when a lot of those same people were saying "pettine will be back, deal with it".
The browns were right to fire pettine....and you could see that happening at the beginning of the year. As I predicted.
Your history doesn't back that up, tour showed it before. I believe manziel has several years guaranteed starting or along those lines
-
Bullshit I can list dozens of posts where I bashed manziel the player before all this off the field stuff this year started happening. I was harder on manziel than most of his detractors. I wanted to see him start over mccown and that was still the right decision.
I was right on with every single damn key event this season....if many of the posters here predictions had panned out we would be going to the 2017 with Mike Pettine. no thanks. I was the loudest voice all along saying "this idiot is fired at the end of the year"....and I was saying that EARLY ON. So yeah...I'm going to be reminding people of that, especially when a lot of those same people were saying "pettine will be back, deal with it".
The browns were right to fire pettine....and you could see that happening at the beginning of the year. As I predicted.
Your history doesn't back that up, tour showed it before. I believe manziel has several years guaranteed starting or along those lines
-
Dude... I've posted them twice already...
Oh well... let's go for the hat trick. I don't think these are even the same ones that I dug up earlier... so many gems to choose from...
I think JF will get at least 2 whole seasons to prove himself, but after one whole season it will be so clear he is the franchise qb that this conversation will all seem silly.
Look Brandon weeden got a solid year and a half or so to stink, and weeden wasn't 22 years old, wasn't a heisman winner, etc.....
I expect JF to play better next two weeks, but if he doesn't it's no big deal. This is HIS TEAM. For a LONG TIME.
Absolutely a couple years....look how long other first round qbs get, even if they are bad. Blaine gabbert got about two years of terrible play. You guys are delusional if you think 22 year old first round qbs have a few starts only to 'prove they belong'.....
Now it's not important in this case because JF is going to be good. But this crazy idea you guys have that a first round 22 yo qb for a bad franchise needs to play well in the final 2 games or else(or else what Connor shaw starts lmfao) is not based in reality.
Even funnier because Shaw did get a start and actually looked like a QB...
-
Has anyone actually watched Goff throw a deep ball? Interested to hear your takes on his 25+ throws, especially seam and deep middle.
I'll be happy to note those throws going forward, Mike. One of my notes from the 2015 USC game was, "Nice 30-yd touch pass."
In tape so far have been some nice deep crosses (posts), but don't recall many seams.
I do recall several sideline fly routes. He seems to have a tendency to overthrow them if he misses.
I'll be happy to note those throws going forward, Mike. One of my notes from the 2015 USC game was, "Nice 30-yd touch pass."
In tape so far have been some nice deep crosses (posts), but don't recall many seams.
I do recall several sideline fly routes. He seems to have a tendency to overthrow them if he misses.
My main reason for bringing up those two areas of the field, is his arm seems limited to me. He can get the ball there, but if you watch competent NFL QBs, especially Aaron Rodgers (who he is constantly compared to) you see a better trajectory with more velocity. His deep balls seem to need more air to get there.
It doesn't look to be a problem caused by bad mechanics, so it points to arm strength.
That's important.
-
I haven't looked that closely I mostly looked at the fact he gets the ball there. I've seen a couple underthrows but not that many.
I mean if he gets the ball there and hits a guy in stride down the sideline at 30+ yards I'd find it hard to criticize the velocity or trajectory, probably need to look closer at his misses but I think a lot of them were overthrows.
-
I'll be happy to note those throws going forward, Mike. One of my notes from the 2015 USC game was, "Nice 30-yd touch pass."
In tape so far have been some nice deep crosses (posts), but don't recall many seams.
I do recall several sideline fly routes. He seems to have a tendency to overthrow them if he misses.
My main reason for bringing up those two areas of the field, is his arm seems limited to me. He can get the ball there, but if you watch competent NFL QBs, especially Aaron Rodgers (who he is constantly compared to) you see a better trajectory with more velocity. His deep balls seem to need more air to get there.
It doesn't look to be a problem caused by bad mechanics, so it points to arm strength.
That's important.
My main reason for bringing up those two areas of the field, is his arm seems limited to me. He can get the ball there, but if you watch competent NFL QBs, especially Aaron Rodgers (who he is constantly compared to) you see a better trajectory with more velocity. His deep balls seem to need more air to get there.
It doesn't look to be a problem caused by bad mechanics, so it points to arm strength.
Mechanics to my eye look to be really, really good. I don't see the Rogers comparison. Maybe more of a same-school thing?
I'm with you though... arm is not "elite" like Rogers' or Newton's. He's not capable of Aaron's 65-yd howitzer hail mary or a Newton 50 from his knees, but it looks more than adequate to me... especially given the anticipation I see in him.
Earlier I pegged his effective range as 55-yd-ish. I've since seen a couple 60-ish shots that were well thrown. Also no issue with the 15-yd out to the far side. Bit of a hump in it, but that's all.
Aside: You mentioned Arkansas OG Tretola a bit ago. I've now worked the 2nd Qtr of the Sr. Bowl and he did show well. But I am starting to love Nick Martin at C or OG. Unfortunately Nick looks to be going higher... maybe too high to be an option for us.
-
Jared says he's going to do it all at the Combine...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/03/jared-goff-says-hell-do-everything-at-combine/
-
Nice article here with a few embedded gifs...
http://insidethestar.com/dallas-cowboys-draft-jared-goff-film-review/
-
Goff throws off of his back foot. Reminds me of Jake Plummer.
-
At least NFL DraftScout does...
- Goff 1
- Wentz 1
- Lynch 1/2
On their Big Board they now have:
Goff at #4;
Wentz at #10; and
Lynch at #28.
Big drop for Lynch who was initially at #17 IIRC...
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/top750.php?draftyear=2016&sortby=rateall&order=ASC
At least NFL DraftScout does...
- Goff 1
- Wentz 1
- Lynch 1/2
On their Big Board they now have:
Goff at #4;
Wentz at #10; and
Lynch at #28.
Big drop for Lynch who was initially at #17 IIRC...
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/top750.php?draftyear=2016&sortby=rateall&order=ASC
Walter Football has Wentz #2, Goff #7, Lynch #13.
-
The comment concerned TacoCabana clearly relishing his ignorance with an overreliance on "no one can predict" (which ironically happens to be a prediction). If you are eager to share that stance, then I'll gladly lump you in with him.
Myself... I prefer to argue my own opinion based upon my own observations. Doesn't mean I will be right in any particular case, but overall I like my odds.
I may know nothing, but at least I'm working to fill the void.
One... do I have to drag out your introductory posts on Manziel again?
Two... do you realize how your opening undermines everything that follows?
My money is still on you being a trolling alt...
I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about with how I viewed and view Manziel. I've always been of the opinion that while he was an exciting player in college he was not likely cut out for the nfl. I've made hundreds of posts on manziel, even before this season. Can you find one or two posts on manziel which I praise him in some way? Perhaps...but you'll find(even before this season) far far more posts critical of manziel. My consistent stance of manziel(despite whatever hyperbole I used in a few introductory posts) was that he was NOT going to be a legit nfl qb.
I was right on where we would be this year. I was right on Pettine. I was right on what we would do with pettine after I was right on where we would be as a team. I was right on every manziel. I was right on every damn thing.....and a lot of you dumbasses were wrong. So I'll just leave it at that for now.
I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about with how I viewed and view Manziel. I've always been of the opinion that while he was an exciting player in college he was not likely cut out for the nfl. I've made hundreds of posts on manziel, even before this season. Can you find one or two posts on manziel which I praise him in some way? Perhaps...but you'll find(even before this season) far far more posts critical of manziel. My consistent stance of manziel(despite whatever hyperbole I used in a few introductory posts) was that he was NOT going to be a legit nfl qb.
I was right on where we would be this year. I was right on Pettine. I was right on what we would do with pettine after I was right on where we would be as a team. I was right on every manziel. I was right on every damn thing.....and a lot of you dumbasses were wrong. So I'll just leave it at that for now.
UM, it wasn't exactly rocket science to get on the Manziel hate train, day one. I'll leave it at that-
Pettine was a tad harder, but when the losses started piling up- well, it was pretty easy to jump on the ride him out of town on a rail crowd.
-
One Post From the Truth said:
Goff throws off of his back foot. Reminds me of Jake Plummer.
Backfoot? Which of the 5 gifs in the article I posted show that?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
One Post From the Truth said:
Goff throws off of his back foot. Reminds me of Jake Plummer.
Backfoot? Which of the 5 gifs in the article I posted show that?
-
I disagree. And to be clear, I like both him and Wentz a lot. I'm deciding if I like them No. 2 overall enough or not.
I'll try to find some clips later to show you what I'm talking about, and why it might be an issue.
I don't think his arm strength is sub par for the NFL, but it definitely wouldn't be the best. It's definitely better than a Brian Hoyer anyway.I disagree. And to be clear, I like both him and Wentz a lot. I'm deciding if I like them No. 2 overall enough or not.
I'll try to find some clips later to show you what I'm talking about, and why it might be an issue.
How much do you think an NFL conditioning program could improve it?
-
If you are talking about Tacosman's statement, I happen to think he is right.
NO ONE has a clue if any or which one of these QBs will be an outstanding QB.
After all.....most people had Weeden a low 1st or 2d rounder.
No one had Russell Wilson up there that year.
And of course there is obviously the Tom Brady example. And on the opposite extreme the Jamarcus Russell example.
You know nothing Jon Snow.
well just because Jamarcus was #1 overall doesn't mean there was a consensus he would be excellent. Sometimes a guy can go #1 overall and there be very little certainty over what his nfl career will be like. Cam newton was another such guy who went the other way of course...
well just because Jamarcus was #1 overall doesn't mean there was a consensus he would be excellent. Sometimes a guy can go #1 overall and there be very little certainty over what his nfl career will be like. Cam newton was another such guy who went the other way of course...
Fair to say....though I don't think it was a case of the Raiders having been considered to have gone of the rails when they picked him.
Most if not all draft services had Russell going very very high in the draft the year he came out.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login