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2016 O-Line Draft: Offensive Tackles

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  • I would have thought Bruce would want his best "work" to go to a school with a proven track record of developing OL...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    I would have thought Bruce would want his best "work" to go to a school with a proven track record of developing OL...

    @tour2ma said:

    I would have thought Bruce would want his best "work" to go to a school with a proven track record of developing OL...

    That is the guy who was Sherman's OL coach with his son Jake that Sumlin inherited along with 3 other OL NLF draft choices that Jim Turner had recruited. Turner went to Miami with Sherman and was involved in the "Incognito Affair". He also offered Luke when he saw him play at 12 years old, when he was coaching older brother Jake and recruiting Mike.

  • I know, but he simply gets TAMU back to where it was. It's never been known as a top-notch OL school as far as I know. Certainly not in a league with some Big 10 schools.

    I do understand that past is past, but still...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • There's no "OL development juice" in the water at Wisconsin or Iowa. It's about who the coach is. Sherman and Turner--that's a no brainer. As compared to Lane Kiffin or some brand new HC at USC? Also, no brainer.

    Also, three straight first round OLs and we're not a top notch OL school?

  • Right, I missed this because he's not on your list Tour, but he's apparently mayock's #5 tackle. The guy's name is 'Willie Beavers' - not even a joke. This is funnier when you remember 'willie' or 'willy' or british slang for a gentleman sausage. His name is literally cock pussies.

  • gftChrisG gftChris

    Right, I missed this because he's not on your list Tour, but he's apparently mayock's #5 tackle. The guy's name is 'Willie Beavers' - not even a joke. This is funnier when you remember 'willie' or 'willy' or british slang for a gentleman sausage. His name is literally cock pussies.

    @gftchris said:

    Right, I missed this because he's not on your list Tour, but he's apparently mayock's #5 tackle. The guy's name is 'Willie Beavers' - not even a joke. This is funnier when you remember 'willie' or 'willy' or british slang for a gentleman sausage. His name is literally cock pussies.

    Is his middle name starfish?

  • Playing catch up as March slips away. Here are a few "Quick Takes"...

    I was intrigued by Clark's measurables... make that "once was", cause I ain't no more. The OT I saw vs. Baylor and OkSU belied his 5.18 Combine 40. This kid's a heavy-footed reacher with all the balance issues that combo could be expected to generate. Appears to be nowhere near strong enough to move inside.
    Struggled to watch him vs. UK. No burst... no tech... no feet... no speed...
    Pushed on and made myself queue up his Missou game... flashed some tech on first play (fledgling kick followed by decent chop steps). I never saw anything that good again. As if it was there it was covered by an avalanche of waist-bending, wrong-footed, beat-by-spin-move suck.
    After two disappoinmets in a row, Theus was a pleasant surprise. Well shy of a sleeper or hidden gem, he is nonetheless a decent prospect. His feet are his best attribute; his hands his worst. Not sure there's any "fire" or nasty there. Poor anticipation of 2nd level blocks. BAMA game notes confirmed by Florida game.
    And finally for now, Chris' fav...
    Surprise... there's something here. In his MSU game he struggled some in space, but did not embarrass himself. Projects better inside at Pro level. First thing you notice is he moves well. In PassPro he flashes tech. Hands are active. Kid brings an energy to his play and is easily worth a Day 3 pick.
    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196


  • Sometimes the other guy might be the guy? May not exactly be the case here, but opposite his more publicized, LT counterpart (you have to look at Coleman tape to see Young), Avery looks pretty good.


    While I like Coleman better, taking Young at least one day later may be the better value. The experience of watching Young at RT opposite Coleman at LT was reminiscent of seeing Schwartz opposite Joe in that you know one is better, but the other is nearly as effective.


    Young showed a good chop in PassPro with generally good feet in all aspects of his game. He used his hands well in run blocking keeping them inside... not so much in PassPro. Bad habit of dipping his head at impact in either run or pass blocking which he pays for at times.


    Lined up opposite Nkemdiche in one short yardage situation and got stuffed...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    darren15D 1 Reply

  • Except I think Young is going to be only an OG in the pros.

    Probably a terrific OG. I don't see him staying at tackle.

    But character, work ethic, and love for the game has to be there.

    FlugelF 1 Reply

  • Possible, cal, but I did not see the strength to succeed inside. On the other hand I did see feet good enough to function outside.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • True, but like Cam Irving, you can gain strength. Looking at Young's 40 times...

    at left or right tackle...

    do you think they come into play much at all? 5.2...5.4... does it matter?

    Or is it pretty much unrelated to the player's ability to slide out in pass protection?

    Inquiring, don't-know mind wants to know.

  • lol... First, let me point out that Cam hasn't shown any strength gain as yet...

    I don't ignore 40 times, but other measures are more predictive IMO, e.g., the 10-yd split, 20-yd shuttle and 3-cone.

    But predictive drills only go so far. There is a "look" that better OT candidates share... a fluidity of movement to compliment their technique. Beavers' fluidity grabbed me the very first play I saw.

    A lot of the OT vs. interior slot decision is height and arm length driven as well. Nothing wrong with an OG that moves well enough to play OT, but lacks length.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    👍

  • You have Clark listed as an LSU guy, Tour. He went to Tech, which I know you know because you cited some of his games. Just letting you know.

  • Thanks... fixed...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • Great stuff as usual T. Have you had a look at our new RT,LT,LG Alvin Bailey? Seems like your still digging? (never a bad idea though)

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
  • gumby73G gumby73

    Great stuff as usual T. Have you had a look at our new RT,LT,LG Alvin Bailey? Seems like your still digging? (never a bad idea though)

    @gumby73 said:

    Great stuff as usual T. Have you had a look at our new RT,LT,LG Alvin Bailey? Seems like your still digging? (never a bad idea though)

    Thanks... as usual I can't claim "great", but it is definitely "stuff"...

    Haven't checked out Bailey. Is there a site that cuts down NFL game tape?

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @gumby73 said:

    Great stuff as usual T. Have you had a look at our new RT,LT,LG Alvin Bailey? Seems like your still digging? (never a bad idea though)

    Thanks... as usual I can't claim "great", but it is definitely "stuff"...

    Haven't checked out Bailey. Is there a site that cuts down NFL game tape?

    @tour2ma said:

    Haven't checked out Bailey. Is there a site that cuts down NFL game tape?

    I have googled to many thats not worth nothing, but youtube. Theirs another idea business, you up to it yet 😉

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends

  • J. Kyle Murphy (Stanford) 6'6 305 http://www.nfldrafts...=2016&genpos=OT

    Against NW: no kick... no technique... waist bender who got ripped alot... moves well and gets to 2nd level, but cannot track/sustain blocks... slow to no reaction to stunts. Estimate about a -10 grade for the first half.

    Against UCLA; Kicking pretty well.... Had help almost entire 1st Qtr, run and pass. Opposite was content to lay on him... no challenge. Q2 went solo and fared well.... Did meet Clark 1-on-1 once on a run and got mauled.

    Against Cal: Same as UCLA, better tech, but not challenged by his opposite. Feet looked better. Really burrowed and drove in a couple short-yardage situations between two OL in unbalanced look.

    Bottom line: NW was 1st game of season so maybe KM improved, but maybe his NW opposite was a better player than UCLA or Cal had to offer. Hard to know, but can't see him as a late 3rd/early 4th cusp OT where DraftScout projects him. Would take Avery Young a round later.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • C calfoxwc

    Except I think Young is going to be only an OG in the pros.

    Probably a terrific OG. I don't see him staying at tackle.

    But character, work ethic, and love for the game has to be there.

    @calfoxwc said:

    Except I think Young is going to be only an OG in the pros.

    Probably a terrific OG. I don't see him staying at tackle.

    But character, work ethic, and love for the game has to be there.

    Sometimes the ultimate showstoppers with changing a tackle to a guard when enters the NFL is the ability/lackthereof to trap and pull. 2 examples that jump out at me are Gilkey and Lauvao. Both, were really drive blockers at the line of scrimmage in college. Trapping and pulling is an art that every big frame doesn't necessarily have. Eric Steinbach played Offensive Tackle at Iowa under Kirk Ferentz (who was our Oline Coach the last time we won a playoff game in the 90s) before he became a very efficient OG in the NFL. Robert Gallery, who also played for Ferentz, struggled as a Tackle but rallied his way into a comfortable niche at OG shortly thereafter. Steinbach was terrific at pulling and trapping as well as getting to the next tier of defense, something that would rub off on Alex Mack very early on in his career here.

    As a former Guard way back in BC (Before Cellphones), our coach would always say you guys act bored with this stances and start stuff. Inevitably someone would ask how difficult is it to grasp this when we do it over and over and over? Then we would do Okie drills with David whipping Goliath's ass repeatedly without needing a sling shot. The we'd get treated to: "Too high out of stance? Welcome to the seat of your pants from the poet that wants you to know it!" Coach's favorite was busting our line for what's coming before we snapped the ball. He'd blow it dead during the QB cadence and say here comes a 48 quick pitch thanks to the dead give away from our OG's brand new stance with a lean this play. Or he'd say our Center wants his mother up in the top of the stands to know we're running to the right. Instinctive defensive players pick up on these pre-snap keys really easily. Relating this the Browns, every time Gilkey trapped or pulled - opponents had a defensive team meeting in our backfield. They picked it up on film and it turned out to be an easy pre-snap key. Another thing he was terrible at was his inability to stay tight to the line of scrimmage when he trapped. He bellied back and 1 time he clobbered our QB who was trying to sell a play action fake prior to handing off for the counter. Aside from bellying back, he had his head down. That doesn't happen in all cases; but it's the type of stuff you can get from inexperienced players on a position change that may not be best suited to play OG. Greco eventually became an efficient Guard here but that wasn't exactly immediate. Bitonio looks like he picked it up quicker than most so I feel like he's more of an exception to the rule at least in recent years here in Cleveland. 1 year later, we changed OCs and he struggled some albeit part of that was playing through/around injury. Love that kid! Moving forward, I would rather see us draft a true Guard mid-late that shows us on film he can trap and pull without tipping teams off. When you think about it, the run on guards usually starts much later than the run on tackles so this is a position you can steal later in the draft if you have a decent FO.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    Tour2maT 1 Reply
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  • Excellent stuff, Mr. Flugels. ...need a campfire with Canton Mike and listen to you talk

    about offensive line play !

    👍
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