Top 5 living Rock Icons

[The Gipper]

@mudfly said:

Right.....actually just looked up the definitin of "icon" to see if my perspective is actually even correct.....and it basically means "a person that is revered".....so.....there are icons of all eras and types and they probably can be generational, as well as geographic, etc....

For this post....The top 5 rock icons....Id say it depends on if it's "your" top 5 or the worlds top 5.......so younger people would err to people who are iconic to their generation(or their icons).....us older guys might pick people who have been iconic longer(or the worlds).....cause Mcartney or Elvis were "icons" for longer than a lot folks have even been alive.....and to some of us older folks, guys like Grohl are just getting started.....

I guess, perhaps we could limit ourselves to the English speaking.....or even American "world".

As, after all, even an icon in America may not be one in England, or vice versa.

Like the guy: Clint Richards or Richardson or the like

Big, big, huge in the UK......but barely a blip over here.

[The Gipper]

@mudfly said:

Just to play devils advocate.....James Hetfield and Metallica play to a very select group that likes heavy metal rock and, while they are icons of that genre, there music really doesnt cross over much into groups that like other types of music...so, they have a fairly focused group of fans, that is about 30 years into listening to them....

Santana....however....has been doing it for 50 years and crosses several genres....rock, pop, latin, percussive.....they also have attracted more fans from different generations....and Carlos pretty much created his own genre that sounds like no one but him..... while, I think a lot of people would tell you that Metallica sounds like a million other bands(or vice versa) and definitely didnt create their own genre.....so, I know its all perspective, but I have to believe Santana has touched and influence way more people, in way more musical genres for way more time.....

Agree completely....Hetfield (whose name I just learned)....belongs apparently famously to a niche. Santana....whose name I have known for those 50 years....has had much broader public awareness.

[gftChris]

1. Ayers

2. Plymouth

3. The

4. Split Apple

5. Balancing

[The Cysko Kid]

@the-gipper said:

Agree completely....Hetfield (whose name I just learned)....belongs apparently famously to a niche. Santana....whose name I have known for those 50 years....has had much broader public awareness.

This is another bad case of Gipper saying "Well I know Person A better therefore person A is better"

Metallica is extremely mainstream. They may have been a niche when they first came on the scene in the 1980s but that has gone the way of the dinosaurs some time ago.

[The Cysko Kid]

by the way, Supernatural, Santana's biggest album went 15x platinum. Metallica's 'metallica' went 16x platinum. that's not a niche act when you have a record that goes 16x platinum

[The Gipper]

@the-cysko-kid said:

This is another bad case of Gipper saying "Well I know Person A better therefore person A is better"

Metallica is extremely mainstream. They may have been a niche when they first came on the scene in the 1980s but that has gone the way of the dinosaurs some time ago.

Who the fuck said anything about "Better". This is about being "Iconic".....more well known....more "revered".

Go ahead....try this test: Go downtown to Public Square....and just stop ever other random person on the street and ask two questions:

A. Do you know who James Hetfield is? (more than likely people will say: Is that one of the guys that had the feud with the McCoys"

B. Do you know who Carlos Santana is? (you might get some that say "Indians catcher, no"...but tons tons more will know Santana over James Hetfield.

And FYI, "Public Square" is not some headbanger club on the west side.

[The Cysko Kid]

since 1973 Santana has won 10 grammys and been nominated for 14. Pretty impressive.

since 1989 Metallica has won 8 grammys and been nominated for 17. Total niche act.

[gftChris]

Tbh I've never heard of either, so if you're going for most well known, they both fall way, way short of someone like springsteen or paul mccartney.

[The Gipper]

@the-cysko-kid said:

since 1973 Santana has won 10 grammys and been nominated for 14. Pretty impressive.

since 1989 Metallica has won 8 grammys and been nominated for 17. Total niche act.

Ah...but two things: "Metallica" is certainly a well known brand name. But we weren't talking about Metallica. We are talking about individual icons. And David Hetfield's name isn't so well known as his band.

And yes, I have no doubt that in the category "Heavy Metal artists" Metallica would likely have won many Grammy's.

Metallica as a brand may come close to Santana. Hetfield as a brand does not come close to Santana.

And they both earn a debt of gratitude to Chuck Berry.

[The Gipper]

@gftchris said:

Tbh I've never heard of either, so if you're going for most well known, they both fall way, way short of someone like springsteen or paul mccartney.

Never heard of Santana?

Have you heard of Chuck Berry?

[The Cysko Kid]

@the-gipper said:

Ah...but two things: "Metallica" is certainly a well known brand name. But we weren't talking about Metallica. We are talking about individual icons. And David Hetfield's name isn't so well known as his band.

And yes, I have no doubt that in the category "Heavy Metal artists" Metallica would likely have won many Grammy's.

Metallica as a brand may come close to Santana. Hetfield as a brand does not come close to Santana.

And they both earn a debt of gratitude to Chuck Berry.

it is fair to say, as well that multiple Santana grammy's have been in niche categories such as 'Latin music' or 'World music". He did win best album for Supernatural in 99 which, in my opinion, was richly deserved. It was a fantastic album, but it did , to be fair, owe a debt other artists that featured on it, most notably Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20

[The Cysko Kid]

gft, you've heard of Dave Grohl, yes?

[The Cysko Kid]

Santana is undoubtably a Latin music icon but in the realm of larger 'rock' I don't know. Just being well known is not enough, to me. Billy Joel is incredibly well known with substantially more hits and better sales than Santana and I don't think I would call him a rock Icon either. I certainly like him quite a bit, Ive seen him twice in concert myself, but he's not a rock icon. He plays rock music. He's got a lot of hits. he sells a ton of shows. Rock Icon? I don't think so.

[The Gipper]

@the-cysko-kid said:

Santana is undoubtably a Latin music icon but in the realm of larger 'rock' I don't know. Just being well known is not enough, to me. Billy Joel is incredibly well known with substantially more hits and better sales than Santana and I don't think I would call him a rock Icon either. I certainly like him quite a bit, Ive seen him twice in concert myself, but he's not a rock icon. He plays rock music. He's got a lot of hits. he sells a ton of shows. Rock Icon? I don't think so.

If you don't think Santana or Billy Joel are Icons....then you have no business trying to foist Dave/Dan/James Hatfield on us. Better luck with Grandpa McCoy.

I mean, I still get this image in my brain:

[Chicopee John]

@the-gipper said:

I know it can't be totally objective....but I think that there can be a fairly clear situation about who is more famous...if you will.

I mean, objectively....if I came up with some name that you had never heard of, I don't think that I could really have a claim that that is one of the most famous persons alive.

Would you argue against the proposition that Paul McCartney is one of the most famous persons alive?

>>Any objective listing on this subject pretty much has to have Paul McCartney at the top of it.>>

Maybe I took you literal, Gip, and thought you said that - by any objective measure - McCartney has to be #1.

Maybe I'm out lawyering the lawyer

Yes, I would say that McCartney is one of the most iconic Rock figures in the world. You can probably take 'Rock' out of the previous sentence.

[browns52]

@mudfly said:

Just to play devils advocate.....James Hetfield and Metallica play to a very select group that likes heavy metal rock and, while they are icons of that genre, there music really doesnt cross over much into groups that like other types of music...so, they have a fairly focused group of fans, that is about 30 years into listening to them....

Santana....however....has been doing it for 50 years and crosses several genres....rock, pop, latin, percussive.....they also have attracted more fans from different generations....and Carlos pretty much created his own genre that sounds like no one but him..... while, I think a lot of people would tell you that Metallica sounds like a million other bands(or vice versa) and definitely didnt create their own genre.....so, I know its all perspective, but I have to believe Santana has touched and influence way more people, in way more musical genres for way more time.....

agree....saw them perform right after woodstock.around 1970..".soul sacrifice"....yeah man....still like carlos today...have alot of his music...

[The Gipper]

@chicopee-john said:

>>Any objective listing on this subject pretty much has to have Paul McCartney at the top of it.>>

Maybe I took you literal, Gip, and thought you said that - by any objective measure - McCartney has to be #1.

Maybe I'm out lawyering the lawyer

Not sure....if you would outlawyer me.

Let's put it this way: I would take his case for the #1 living Rock Idol over anyone else really.

Yes, I would say that McCartney is one of the most iconic Rock figures in the world. You can probably take 'Rock' out of the previous sentence.

Sure...anyone in any field. Who is more iconic...in any field? Good question.

[The Cysko Kid]

@the-gipper said:

If you don't think Santana or Billy Joel are Icons....then you have no business trying to foist Dave/Dan/James Hatfield on us. Better luck with Grandpa McCoy.

I mean, I still get this image in my brain:

I don't like what you say, waaah. I don't know who dave Grohl is waaah. For a lawyer you are both a condescending douche, which is probably to be expected from someone in your profession, and also a baby, which us surprising. Both Grohl and Mettallica have earned their statuses. Both are every bit as or more successful as santana and billy Joel and the likes of them. You are stunted. It's like time stopped for you around 1978. Like it or not, these guys are now the elder statesmen of rock and they influence the younger generations of rock fans as much as they themselves were influenced by the likes of Led Zeppelin and the Beatles.

Our friend across the pond there has never even heard of santana. That, to me, justifies my position on his iconic status.

[The Cysko Kid]

You think these three guys would agree that dave grohl is a nobody?

[The Cysko Kid]

I'm sure these guys would agree that he hasn't achieved iconic status