Reasons to believe the Browns have turned the corner into turning into a winning TEAM
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I mean, listen...I can be as optimistic as anybody because I prefer to feel that way over feeling like a negative jackass. I can possibly make the argument that our franchise is turning the corner on SOME things, but I can't say we're close to WINNING. Our win total might be the same as it was last year, but I still think we'll be better. We'll have a real defensive scheme that puts players in their best position to succeed. Remember last year when players didn't know what the hell they were doing and players felt they were asked to do things they weren't good at? Yeah, you won't be seeing that crap anymore. Remember the atrocious time management in several games? The suspect play calling when the game was on the line? (Ahem...the toss sweep to the slowest RB on the team right after Mingo makes the only play of his career and picked off Manning)
We are also younger, and we have a ton of draft picks. Statistically speaking, we have to hit on a greater number of these because we have MORE picks, right? I think we've turned the corner of being more competitive, but I am virtually certain that we are at least one more year away from winning (by winning I mean .500 ball. THAT'S winning in Cleveland unfortunately)
If...and this is a HUGE "if"...but IF the time table is sped up for our franchise, it will mean just one thing: RG III is the guy that so many hope he is. If we somehow have a QB that can play well, we might win a few more games than people think this year, and we might push for a wildcard next season. The ONLY way this happens is if RG III turns out to be a solid player. That happens, and good times are back in Cleveland much sooner than we thought possible.
But...this is Cleveland, and we know all too well the struggles of finding a QB AND a coaching staff. We Browns fans don't buy into preseason hope, but even I have to admit that this regime has a different feel. A coach with documented experience, a DC with experience, and a thoughtful front office not afraid to think outside the box. But what happens if RG III fails? How many years does THAT set us back? Can we really expect a 37 year old McCown to save our bacon for another 2-3 years? Can we really expect Cody Kessler to develop quickly? (if at all?) So much of our success depends on RG III, and if he doesn't work out, will our owner have the patience to ride this out? Because if RG III DOESN'T work out, you have to think it's going to take another 2-3 years to really see what we have in our draft picks, and I don't remember the last coach that got 3 years.
In short, just about everything depends on our QB.
i really liked you commenting on the mingo int and the sweep that lost 4 yds on the ensuing play because the next day everyone was blaming mccown for fucking up the game in ot...I got alot of flack by saying it was not mccowns fault the fucking ol sucks and the rb stinks...terrible 1st down call. The jackoffs giving me slack are the ones that do not understand football on this board. They don't understand by putting a qb at 2nd and 14 against the nfl's best d is not a good thing especially with the shit stain ol perfomance we had last yr...good point
i really liked you commenting on the mingo int and the sweep that lost 4 yds on the ensuing play because the next day everyone was blaming mccown for fucking up the game in ot...I got alot of flack by saying it was not mccowns fault the fucking ol sucks and the rb stinks...terrible 1st down call. The jackoffs giving me slack are the ones that do not understand football on this board. They don't understand by putting a qb at 2nd and 14 against the nfl's best d is not a good thing especially with the shit stain ol perfomance we had last yr...good point
Thanks man, and I don't blame McCown at ALL. That defense made the best QB's in the league look like crappy rookies at times, and with the game on the line, it's no surprise they buckled down and made Josh look bad. I remember the two following plays after the miserable toss sweep (in fairness to the coaches, I believe our RB bobbled the ball on the sweep, but still, I don't think he would've gone ANYWHERE).
I think we were first and ten at around the Bronco 37 yard line, correct? We knew we had to get more yards because our kicker didn't have the ability to nail 50+ yard FG's (that's a conversation for a DIFFERENT time, and something that PISSES ME OFF). So it's first and ten around the 37, and we have ALL the momentum IN THE WORLD because we're at OUR HOUSE and the crowd is both hysterical and confused at Mingo making a play. On first down, we HAD to have something nasty. We needed a play kept deep in our pockets that we didn't previously show them. Perhaps a different wrinkle from an earlier play...SOMETHING to try and play on their aggressiveness. Nothing "trick play" oriented, but something with a high chance of success for 4-8 yards.
We came up with a toss sweep to our slowest RB, who doesn't generally RUN TOSS SWEEPS, and he bobbled the ball. Fail.
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PS the wife has a Nissan Rogue- and after bonking my head on the tailgate a couple times- I figured out you can manually raise ir another foot or so to prevent the bonk. Mr. Hoorta
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Well, it's her suv - she drives her car most of the time, I reckon I forgot she's short enough
to not manually raise it the rest of the way, and still clear it. Me? nope.
And our close friends, like family, live in N.C. We get regular updates on the nice weather in the early spring...
two years ago? we planted some tomatoes on the 20th, always waiting til after the 15th to avoid frost..
and three days later.... it freakin frosted. Those plants were murdered. We love it when they come up to
visit- they say it's 'cold'... we go down there and stay with them... even in winter - we say it's hot.
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We came up with a toss sweep to our slowest RB, who doesn't generally RUN TOSS SWEEPS, and he bobbled the ball. Fail. Jiggs
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I can only figure, that they didn't have the experience to know what to do, and out-thought themselves
trying to fool the defense by not playing a different play, and doing something obviously dumb would
catch the defense off guard.
Or something. The coaches NOW? They've been around, they know what to look for, how to teach, seen it all,
know what to do. They won't be putting round pegs into square holes, and their systems will take advantage of
skillsets of the players. The Browns before Hue tried to win... and just had to figure it was still all wrong.. again.
Some players got frustrated and bolted. You can tell by this last draft, they see the major weaknesses in talent
the Browns have.
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Y'all gonna hate me and ghouls (well more than you guys already hate him) if bosa comes firing off that edge for the chargers. I will not let that one go. Cause the browns then easily could have had mack and bosa as their edges.
We shall see.
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Why do I get the feeling Ghoolie was that kid that enjoyed telling younger kids there was no such thing as Santa Claus? Could it be because he's still telling kids this up to 75 years of age?
Why do I get the feeling Ghoolie was that kid that enjoyed telling younger kids there was no such thing as Santa Claus? Could it be because he's still telling kids this up to 75 years of age?
You know you've just subscribed to his argument right?....Vesnas insistence that browns fans are living in a world of make believe. As if Hue was Santa, and he was gonna deliver you a winner this up coming season.
Not saying he won't, just saying.
That said, I remember when Petine was hired. Browns fans were all in with this guy, thought he was gonna be a good coach. Similar to the way they are taking to Hue.
Love for Petine continued up to his second year.
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Actually, not true. We were HOPING he would be the right guy, he was NOT.
We KNOW Hue is the right guy - that has been said by many players and other coaches who know him.
Nobody said that about Pettine. Not Nooooooobody.
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VesnaKociper said:
But the reality is, optimism aside, there are too many red flags for this to be a good season.
1) There is no clear cut QB and there will be no clear cut QB. There will be a starter, but that will change all season long based on injury and fucked up performance. Black Tarkenton will make some athletic plays and wow people, but without a QB the offense can't be sustainable. This is so obviolus I cannot believe anyone would even argue. This leads into the problems that follow.
3) Offense is not sustainable = more defensive plays = tired out defense = more injuries than other teams. Do you think it is just bad luck that so many Browns players get fucked up?
AGAIN........... the proper course for building a winner was in the palm of their hands................
#2 pick - take Bosa
Trade Joe Thomas and the #32 for a mid 1st round to get Lynch.
Trade the 2017 #1 to get Doctson
Get the ACLU,, Black Lives Matter, Sharpton and NAACP to get Josh Gordon back on the field.
Trade the rest of the 2016 picks and get a QB eater at DE.
Now your just Laughable..Bosa play QB? Wentz does..Bosa backwards A Son Of a Bitch..And them gumba's took him to SD..Enjoy!! Doctson went #20 & Pac a ton #26. A HOF LT & #32 & do what? Sorry but, Nobody trades their assumable #1 in 17 for a Doctson..
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VesnaKociper said:
So all that diatribe, just to ageee with me. THe Browns don't have a QB. 2 - 14 +/- 1 win
Yeah, basically. But it would be remiss to assume that RG III has no chance to succeed or that McCown can't play at a steady level. Much of the QB play will be determined by our defense. If we're kept in the games, we can mix up the run and pass. If we're getting blown out, well...
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Remains to be seen... plus even after season starts we will still have to project Bosa's 4-3 performance to our 3-4.
Reasons to believe the Browns have turned the corner into turning into a winning TEAM
Sometimes a title dooms a thread... and I don't mean mean the use of both "turned" and "turning" in it.
So hard to believe that we have turned, as in it's a done deal, based on nothing tangible at this point.
"Are turning"? Better...
"Just may turn"? Even better yet...
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VesnaKociper said:
That draft would have produced results.
Who said Bosa was playing QB? All I said is the Browns fucked up passing on him. WHich, they did.
Naa, your #1 opinion & something we actually agree on. It's always about the QB, I total agree. Think we agree with your Tarkington on board, Wentz was not that option either? So was Philly the only one we could rob with all those picks is my only unanswered question I guess. We gave up a bunch from #3 to #7 & I thought Buckner playing in a 3-4 was our biggest need over any of them. The trade from 8 to 15 was a win with C.Coleman. You can't teach nor coach speed & quickness. I know you like Doctson but his 4.50 to Coleman's 4.37 40 is something I like in Coleman. Now can we get somebody to get him the rock at that speed? Was it RG3 that made Desean Jackson a star? Lets See..
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Bosa=Bust
Any player named Joey is a turd licker.
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might be off topic but who cares (?!?)...
why don't the browns and other teams sink money into finding a great GM and a scouting team rather than throwing money at some over-rated hot-shot coach? i mean wasn't chip kelly supposed to be the next big thing? how much did laurie splurge on that asshole (reminds me of lerner/holmgren)? what big name coach has won anything in the past decade if not for his GM drafting the right players? gary kubiak a great coach? GTFO!
i say get the friggin best GM, let him get the best players and hand them off to rumplestilskin who could do just as good as tomlin, coughlin or mclovin at this point.
the whole model is screwed backwards IMO.
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So, on Wed, we were at a pool party. Our friends, "adopted sister-in-laws" etc, one of em have a real nice place,
swimming pool near a golf course, etc.
I went in to get a plate of food, and on my way out, at the top of the granite stairs of the
top patio, I slipped on a grape on the right side of the stairs, put my right foot back down to keep
my balance, and half my foot was on the stairs, and it slipped over the edge.
it was "save new titanium knee" time, and I plowed into the granite patio, left shoulder wise,
and the Correlware plate exploded into maybe ten thousand sharp fragments. The gals were trying
to keep me still, thinking I was badly hurt, but I rolled over and got up and said "well, that was stupid...."
Trouble was, they were also trying to keep me from rolling on the sharp needle fragments.
New right knee - still excellent.
Right hand - 3 scratches/ cuts... 1 nasty one that needed a bandaid.
Right Leg - calf cut pretty good, needed two bandaids.
Bruised/scraped left knee
2 wet paper towels to stop the bleeding.
But I was fine. I know they were really worried, because I was the object of their jokes for ten minutes.
and THAT was more fun than reading most of Ghoulish's threads.
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might be off topic but who cares (?!?)...
why don't the browns and other teams sink money into finding a great GM and a scouting team rather than throwing money at some over-rated hot-shot coach? i mean wasn't chip kelly supposed to be the next big thing? how much did laurie splurge on that asshole (reminds me of lerner/holmgren)? what big name coach has won anything in the past decade if not for his GM drafting the right players? gary kubiak a great coach? GTFO!
i say get the friggin best GM, let him get the best players and hand them off to rumplestilskin who could do just as good as tomlin, coughlin or mclovin at this point.
the whole model is screwed backwards IMO.
why don't the browns and other teams sink money into finding a great GM and a scouting team rather than throwing money at some over-rated hot-shot coach?
I've often pondered this same question. If I were the owner of an NFL franchise, my first priority would be to get a great GM. I would go after someone like Ozzie Newsome or a Kevin Colbert. This is the single most important position on the team, the person responsible for bringing in a crop of talented footballs players year after year. In 2015 the Browns had the #31st ranked roster in the NFL, I hope the Harvard grads do a better job than Farmer.
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why don't the browns and other teams sink money into finding a great GM and a scouting team rather than throwing money at some over-rated hot-shot coach?
I've often pondered this same question. If I were the owner of an NFL franchise, my first priority would be to get a great GM. I would go after someone like Ozzie Newsome or a Kevin Colbert. This is the single most important position on the team, the person responsible for bringing in a crop of talented footballs players year after year. In 2015 the Browns had the #31st ranked roster in the NFL, I hope the Harvard grads do a better job than Farmer.
I've often pondered this same question. If I were the owner of an NFL franchise, my first priority would be to get a great GM. I would go after someone like Ozzie Newsome or a Kevin Colbert. This is the single most important position on the team, the person responsible for bringing in a crop of talented footballs players year after year. In 2015 the Browns had the #31st ranked roster in the NFL, I hope the Harvard grads do a better job than Farmer.
I don't believe you can 100% effectively coach players that are chosen FOR you without your input. I believe the coach MUST have significant input regarding players who fit his system. While I agree about having a strong GM, even more important is to have a GM & HC who communicate well & are on the same page. Football is a TEAM game & that applies to FO & Coaching staff as well.
Mike
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So, on Wed, we were at a pool party. Our friends, "adopted sister-in-laws" etc, one of em have a real nice place,
swimming pool near a golf course, etc.
I went in to get a plate of food, and on my way out, at the top of the granite stairs of the
top patio, I slipped on a grape on the right side of the stairs, put my right foot back down to keep
my balance, and half my foot was on the stairs, and it slipped over the edge.
it was "save new titanium knee" time, and I plowed into the granite patio, left shoulder wise,
and the Correlware plate exploded into maybe ten thousand sharp fragments. The gals were trying
to keep me still, thinking I was badly hurt, but I rolled over and got up and said "well, that was stupid...."
Trouble was, they were also trying to keep me from rolling on the sharp needle fragments.
New right knee - still excellent.
Right hand - 3 scratches/ cuts... 1 nasty one that needed a bandaid.
Right Leg - calf cut pretty good, needed two bandaids.
Bruised/scraped left knee
2 wet paper towels to stop the bleeding.
But I was fine. I know they were really worried, because I was the object of their jokes for ten minutes.
and THAT was more fun than reading most of Ghoulish's threads.
... and THAT was more fun than reading most of Ghoulish's threads.
lol... was wondering what the payoff to the story was going to be...
I've often pondered this same question. If I were the owner of an NFL franchise, my first priority would be to get a great GM. I would go after someone like Ozzie Newsome or a Kevin Colbert. This is the single most important position on the team, the person responsible for bringing in a crop of talented footballs players year after year. In 2015 the Browns had the #31st ranked roster in the NFL, I hope the Harvard grads do a better job than Farmer.
Sounds easy... but how do you ID GM talent? Remember how "smart" we were to retain Farmer when the Fins wanted him? How Ray was an integral part of all the recent personnel success in KC?
Since you can't tamper with clubs' GMs, the only way to go is promote a promising prospect from within. Even then it's far from foolproof. Maybe Farmer was great in a role in KC... even in CLE as we apparently thought. Then he became "the GM" and.... no... not so much.
Can't say for sure, but I've a feeling that most of the GM talent in the league was "found" within the FO they now head. It feels like we have deepened and widened our FO talent pool with this reorg under Sashi. Hopefully we spawn and grow our future talent in it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
VesnaKociper said:
So, what you are telling me is that you agree with my Santa Claus message. You are agreeing with me that this team had a horrible draft and is on a path to another shit season. Your objection is that I am telling the truth?
Speaking of Santa, When I was 5 I told my Mom that there was no such thing as Santa. When it comes ot detecting bullshit, I am THE REAL, cousin Vinny.
2 - 14 +/- 1 win.
I got your REAL Cousin Vinny right here. The kid that told me there was no such thing as Santa Claus ended up with a bloody nose. I'm Irish which means swing first and ask questions later.
To prevent the Ghoolosh from sounding foolosh in paraphrase - let me be responsible for what I say. In this case, I have a very good feeling about this draft for us. I LIKED how they not only looked for explosiveness in the edge rushers but they found guys where the fitness carried over to productivity on the gridiron. There were some occasional head scratchers but they also found some decorated resumes as late as Scooby. There was also an understanding the WR position and edge rushers are important in a passing era, which moves us light years ahead of Farmer's prehistoric philosophy about the WR position.
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