Offensive Roster Bracing for Training Camp Survival

miktoxic

half of the 'analytic' draft picks won't make it to see a sunday afternoon football game.

thanks jimma!

Flugel

VesnaKociper said:
Does it really matter who stays and who goes?

You just watched the Cleveland Cavaliers win their 1st championship in team history and you're asking me this? Aside from the parade that hosted over a million people, do you know how many Cleveland fans celebrated the 12th of Never including you?

Yes, it really matters that the previous coaching staff and front office is gone along with Manziel, Weeden, Richardson. Hear me out here before you choose the most convenient sentence to attack back with hind sight 20/20. They were saying all this stuff when Eddie DeBartolo Jr came out to SF and fired people right and left until he finally got the right guys in charge. And spare me the my dad was best friends with his dad bullshit. It all started with an owner willing to self-evaluate mistakes above ego. The same Jimmy Haslam who sent a plane to steal Peyton Manning away from the Manning family tradition at Ole Miss and jacked up the recruiting enough for a National Championship the year after manning departed - told us it all started with him needing to be better.

We now have a new FO, new coaching staff, 14 draft picks coming in, and some young FAs that can definitely raise the bar in how this team competes. They also added to next year's draft volume and round 1 in particular.

2014 was only 2 years ago and that team won 7 games in spite of a big injury volume. Of the 9 games lost, Cleveland had 2nd half leads in 4 of them and 2 of them had tie scores in the 2nd half. Effort was never in question. What was missing? Play makers. Isn't that what you always bellyache about? 2 WRs we just drafted: Coleman scored 33 TDs in his last 2 years while Higgins scored 25 TDs (17 in the jr year when he had an experienced QB). Edge Rushers just drafted: Carl Nassib led the country in sacks with 15.5 and Ogbah was next with 13 while your Joey Bosa had 5 sacks. Something tells me you would be reminding me how over-decorated Bosa was if we never traded out of #2 and drafted him. Reggie White never needed excuses like "that little 200 lb RB blocking me was a real show stopper after I got through the OT and TE."

I can't blame this front office or coaching staff for the sins of the past Tom.

gumby73

Get Joel Bitonio contract extension done NOW. Quit sitting on cap to pay more later..Pay The Man!! (back with more fatass updates VK)

Flugel

@miktoxic said:

half of the 'analytic' draft picks won't make it to see a sunday afternoon football game.

thanks jimma!

Only about 4 of the 11 draftees (below) made it to see a Sunday afternoon game. Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright and Carlton Williamson all became starters in the secondary for a team about to begin a dynasty. Does that draft suck OR did they draft enough goodies to change the way SF played defense moving forward?

Round

Overall Player Position College 1 8 Ronnie Lott DB Southern California 2 36 John Harty DT Iowa 2 40 Eric Wright DB Missouri 3 65 Carlton Williamson DB Pittsburgh 5 121 Lynn Thomas DB Pittsburgh 5 122 Arrington Jones KR Winston-Salem State 6 147 Pete Kugler DT Penn State 8 203 Garry White RB Minnesota 11 286 Ron DeBose TE UCLA 12 313 Major Ogilvie RB Alabama 12 322 Joe Adams QB Tennessee State

Flugel

Zombo said:

I love that Hollywood Higgins is classified as DIS. Gotta love Browns fans.

Oh ... and I agree.

Zombo

Lindy's Pro Football Draft lists Rashard Higgins as the Sleeper To Watch with this:

Higgins dropped off the national radar after Head Coach Jim McElwain and QB Garrett Grayson left for greener pastures in 2015, but he's a fluid athlete with size and natural ball skills who could surprise with how high he's drafted.

Here's his numbers:

2013 68 rec 837 yds 12.3 ypc 6 TD

2014 96 rec 1,750 yds 18.2 ypc 17 TD

2015 75 rec 1,063 yds 14.2 ypc 8 TD

Now, try to imagine Higgins, Coleman, Barnidge and Hawkins in the slot. Doesn't sound bad.

Other guys that could challenge for playing time/situational roles are Terrelle Pryor, Jordan Payton, Darius Jennings and Ricardo Louis. I'd say Potsie Gordon but I saw exactly how interested he is in making a difference here when he got his 8th life in 2014 joining our pleasant surprise of 6-4 in progress. Didn't know the playbook, quit on plays and got suspended by the coaching staff for another episode of not caring enough about the only professional team that gave him a chance, then another, then another, then another...

Tour2ma

Clear weakness: QB group

When your top performer is at the end of his career.... The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that McC is around to be traded to the team suffering the greatest QB loss during TC.

Clear strength: ???

Just can't squint that hard...

Most promise: WR group

Even four random draftees would win for this group and I think we did a lot better than random.

Least promising: RB group

I like Crow and think the swap to a power gap scheme will help him, but...

- the line is a question mark...

- TE blocking is a question mark... and

- FB???

That's three strikes.

Flugel

@tour2ma said:

Clear weakness: QB group

When your top performer is at the end of his career.... The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that McC is around to be traded to the team suffering the greatest QB loss during TC.

Clear strength: ???

Just can't squint that hard...

Most promise: WR group

Even four random draftees would win for this group and I think we did a lot better than random.

Least promising: RB group

I like Crow and think the swap to a power gap scheme will help him, but...

- the line is a question mark...

- TE blocking is a question mark... and

- FB???

That's three strikes.

I remember the day we signed Barnidge - I read his greatest addition here would be blocking. And then I witnessed what kind of Receiver he became in 2015.

Like that video I shared of the Bitonio press conference in the Drango thread - the offense becomes a product of the OC's philosophical agenda. Bitonio hinted they tried to adapt to a change from run first to pass first mentality. That's gonna change what you get out of your TEs as exemplified by Barnidge.

gumby73

@tour2ma said:

Clear weakness: QB group

When your top performer is at the end of his career.... The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that McC is around to be traded to the team suffering the greatest QB loss during TC.

Clear strength: ???

Just can't squint that hard...

Most promise: WR group

Even four random draftees would win for this group and I think we did a lot better than random.

Least promising: RB group

I like Crow and think the swap to a power gap scheme will help him, but...

- the line is a question mark...

- TE blocking is a question mark... and

- FB???

That's three strikes.

Get out of my head.. QB--The more I hear about Fitz turning down 12M with Jets. The more I think JMC fits their cap situation & not Fitz. Better OL for now too? When Josh pushed to name starter, full indication was Josh knows he's got few years to play & ain't sitting behind anybody. Maybe he does want out.. WR--better than random-spot on..RB/OL--Not sure if you caught the new article from same writer at Fanside? But either writer or Hal Hunter is speaking crazy stuff again on OL personnel imo. Proof shall be in the pudding

miktoxic

@flugel said:

Only about 4 of the 11 draftees (below) made it to see a Sunday afternoon game. Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright and Carlton Williamson all became starters in the secondary for a team about to begin a dynasty. Does that draft suck OR did they draft enough goodies to change the way SF played defense moving forward?

Round
Overall Player Position College 1 8 Ronnie Lott DB Southern California 2 36 John Harty DT Iowa 2 40 Eric Wright DB Missouri 3 65 Carlton Williamson DB Pittsburgh 5 121 Lynn Thomas DB Pittsburgh 5 122 Arrington Jones KR Winston-Salem State 6 147 Pete Kugler DT Penn State 8 203 Garry White RB Minnesota 11 286 Ron DeBose TE UCLA 12 313 Major Ogilvie RB Alabama 12 322 Joe Adams QB Tennessee State

pfft,

you're saying there's a ronnie lott amongst our draftees?

can you point him out to me pleez?

One Post

@tour2ma said:

Clear weakness: QB group

When your top performer is at the end of his career.... The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that McC is around to be traded to the team suffering the greatest QB loss during TC.

Clear strength: ???

Just can't squint that hard...

Most promise: WR group

Even four random draftees would win for this group and I think we did a lot better than random.

Least promising: RB group

I like Crow and think the swap to a power gap scheme will help him, but...

- the line is a question mark...

- TE blocking is a question mark... and

- FB???

That's three strikes.

The RB's... This is why they need to bring a vet in. D. Murray or A. Morris can be had via trade for a draft pick. We have the $$ to let this happen as well. It will keep the qb upright as well. Crow is a fan fav but let's get a RB that earns respect from opposing defenses.

Flugel

@miktoxic said:

pfft,

you're saying there's a ronnie lott amongst our draftees?

can you point him out to me pleez?

What a clever detour so I'll re-post my point and question to you again: Only about 4 of the 11 draftees made it to see a Sunday afternoon game. Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright and Carlton Williamson all became starters in the secondary for a team about to begin a dynasty. Does that draft suck OR did they draft enough goodies to change the way SF played defense moving forward?

The year Ronnie Lott was drafted - he was coming off an All American season. Nostradamus wasn't available at the time of the pick to let us know if he was a lock for the NFL Hall of Fame or not before NFL down #1. It looked like a very good pick especially if you saw the highlights and the productivity behind the reasons he earned All American honors.

Speaking of Lott's promising college football accomplishments in terms of what they projected ahead, we drafted some similar college football resumes:

1) a guy who made All American as well as being named Pac 12 Player of the Year with 14.5 sacks and 6 forced fumbles plus winning the Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagurski Awards in 2014 (Scooby Wright).

2) a guy that led the nation in sacks with 15.5, 6 forced fumbles and 19.5 tackles for loss (Carl Nassib)

3) a Big 12 Defensive player of the Year and All American (Emmanuel Ogbah),

4) a 2 time All American and 2 time Big 12 Offensive Linemen of the year (Spencer Drango),

5) a guy that made All American and won the Biletnikoff Award as the best WR in college football after scoring 20 TDs in his final season at Baylor (Corey Coleman)

You don't want any of these guys to have a chance? Let's just cut em now Mik?

gumby73

@flugel said:

I always like to put on paper who will be competing for starting jobs and active roster spots in our training camp ahead. I'll start off with the offensive side of the ball and some important special teams duties.

Offensive Line:

Joe Thomas LT

Joel Bitonio OG-Pay this Guy

Cam Erving C-Hal Hunter, Listen to Gumby Damn it. A Fat NT will put this man in our QB's lap on a 4 step drop. Put Cam at G

John Greco OG/C-Hal Hunter, Listen to Gumby again Damn It. Big Grec he's your Center

Austin Pasztor RT/OG

Alvin Bailey RT

Charley Hughlett - Long Snapper on Special Teams

Spencer Drango OG/OT

Shon Coleman OT-Camp Battle with Alvin Bailey

Mike Matthews C/OG-Cam or PS?

Michael Bowie OT-Camp Battle RT also

Wide Receiver:

Corey Coleman -Hate the risk at PR Andrew Hawkins-Friends in hometown Toledo tell me he is All In with Hue. working out at UT.

Rashard Higgins-Our new Gabe

Jordan Payton

Terrelle Pryor-If Gordon Back,Tag your OUT

Marlon Moore - A Also Ran at Special Teams punt coverage gunner. Gunna be close

Ricardo Louis - They say bad hands. That's why we have PS?

Darius Jennings

Taylor Gabriel -Can't keep them all in 1 slot. I hurt watching this Hobbit get hit

Josh Gordon-Put the shit down. Far to much wasted Talent

Tight End/Fullback/H-back:

Gary Barnidge

E.J. Bibbs-Camp Battle of 2 Spots

Seth DeValve-Camp Battle of 2 Spots

Connor Hamlett-a player-Camp Battle of 2 spots

Randall Telfer-Now or never Camp Battle or IR waiver

Running Back:

Isaiah Crowell-Contract year.$$ drives

Duke Johnson, Jr.-Pick back up right where last season ended.Do it Pruitt

Terrell Watson-He did not come to keep Hue's nails manicured? Did he?

Raheem Mostert -This kid has none nothing wrong yet.Let's just see

Glenn Winston - leaving me still questioning if he exists in Cleveland.---1 carry 1 fumble in 3 years. Quit stealing $$ & just quit Futball, PLEASE

Quarterback: Hue can drive the truck on this one. I got McCown starter, better tude when a young WR makes mistakes & accuracy..

Robert Griffin III

Josh McCown

Connor Shaw-Good Luck,you been thru hell but your better than A. Davis

Cody Kessler

Austin Davis

Punter:

Andy Lee--BOOM-A Punting God

Place Kicker:

Travis Coons--Always take the DAWG!!

Patrick Murray-BYE-We play in snow not TB

If I missed any players or left some on that have already departed - please feel free to let me know. I thought this would present a nice opportunity for discussion we can spit ball ideas at each other or examine the strength of competition at various positions.

Who stays vrs who sprays?Hollywood Higgins sprays Gabe.

Who starts vrs who shouldn't? RG3 but it worth every gamble out there

Since there's a lot of situational football - who's gonna be our Brian Brennan/Joe Jurevicius/Herman Fontenot/Calvin Hill on 3rd downs?GET THE BALL TO COLEMAN. Speed Kills!!

How will the new offensive scheme fit our line and running game? Patience was not our friend in ZBS. Power Scheme should help both but better vision & balance to any hole even if its wrong make the greats Great

What position do you feel is our strength?TE-Barney--Following Carolina also, I know where Barney comes from. He's nobody's backup no more

What position concerns you most?-Center & anything to the right of it.

What players excite you heading into 2016? BOTH COLEMAN'S. The story Corey can write & SHON the story that he can continue to write. I lost my mom to Leukemia

Are there any guys you've grown stale with? Malcolm Johnson or use of. Gordon of course

What 1 guy do you think brings the most sudden impact - rookie or FA? And why? DEMARIO DAVIS. Dansby lead it tackles. OK Sashi Prove it..

What guy, who is already here, do you expect to play far better than he did in 2015? And, is he the only one? KRUGER it's on a even # year

If you want to answer some or all of those questions or anything else you want to add - I'd love to read your thoughts.

So why quit now. The Cavs ain't on & the Tribe already kicked some Tiger tail..

Orion

Actually I thought Austin Davis did a nice job when he had to play. For guy who hardly got any reps during the season he was pretty good.

He DID however lack in time management.

He's gone though. There's no room for him.

Conner Shaw? I too was impressed with his college completion percentage and lack of INT's (lotta fumbles though as I recall) but he seemed rather ordinary to me. I think his fate is tied to McCown's.

...would be nice if a TE arose to compliment Barnidge...but he needs to be able to block too.

calfoxwc

baloney.

calfoxwc

baloney.

http://www.patriots.com/video/2016/02/19/2016-draft-prospects-rashard-higgins-wr-colorado-state

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:15413975

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/18942/browns-end-the-era-of-the-unimportant-receiver

Flugel

VesnaKociper said:
Also............. BIG PLAYMAKER......................without LeBron, there is no celebration. ALl that team bullshit meant nothing until LeBron showed up.

Hold on, you were bragging about your NE Patriots taking their play makers or Lebron James in round 1. Is that where they found Tom Brady? What about Gronkowski? How about Edelman? Those are the 3 guys they count on most to outscore everybody. And how many Zeke Elliotts have they drafted at RB in round 1 in recent years?

Are you really going to tell our audience how proud of Bill Belichick you were when he drafted Craig Powell and Touchdown-Free Tommy Vardell in upper halves of round 1? Or, when we got to witness all the football follies from Todd Philcox? If anything, Belichick learned in Cleveland a lot can go wrong when you toss all your marbles into 1 guy in round 1 so he mastered the art of trading back for more picks in NE. He drafts bad QBs too - ever hear of Ryan Mallett? We can get him today for a Walmart Cola and a stale bag of potato chips.

Again, this front office increased our 2016 draft volume to 14 and they added picks to the 2017 draft (including another one in round 1) If a guy can score 20 TDs and win an award as the best WR in college football - why does that strike you as not a play maker? 2) If a guy can lead the country with 15.5 sacks, 19.5 tackles for losses and force 6 fumbles - how is that not a play maker?

3) If a guy can earn Defensive Player of the year in the Pac 12 for 14.5 sacks, 6 forced fumbles and countless tackles for losses - how is that not a play maker? Not bad for a late 7th round pick eh?

You've conditioned yourself to tell others about your bellyache so much that you're now doing it before the ache. This is starting to sound like a Billy Ray Cyrus Achey-Breaky video gone wrong...

gftChris

Since there's a lot of situational football - who's gonna be our Brian Brennan/Joe Jurevicius/Herman Fontenot/Calvin Hill on 3rd downs?

Higgins

How will the new offensive scheme fit our line and running game?

Power run game, hopefully our OL is built to match

What position do you feel is our strength?

Left side of OL - Thomas/Bitonio. Yay.

What position concerns you most?

QB, obviously.

What players excite you heading into 2016?

Coleman, Johnson

Are there any guys you've grown stale with?

Crowell, Hawkins

What 1 guy do you think brings the most sudden impact - rookie or FA? And why?

Coleman - think he takes punt returns and runs with them (trololol) and the confidence spills over in to the receiving game, and since he's our defacto #1, he gets a lot of reps.

What guy, who is already here, do you expect to play far better than he did in 2015? And, is he the only one?

Erving. But 'much better' doesn't necessarily mean adequate.

jiggins7919

Hawkins has been labeled as one of the standout performers at the WR position so far in limited practices in minicamp and OTA's. I have read multiple reports stating Hawkins, Pryor, and Coleman are the three that continuously make plays and get open. The only concern I have regarding Hawkins is his ability to remain healthy.

I also believe people should be more encouraged with our RB's. The RB position is basically the ONLY area where we didn't use one of our 14 draft picks to upgrade, and that speaks volumes because Hue Jackson likes to run the ball. If we look at what Cincy liked to do, they ran the ball with Hill and also with Gio. Two guys with two different skill sets, and very similar to the two guys we have on OUR TEAM. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying that Crowell and Duke are as good as Hill and Gio, but they perform similar roles. Hue has mentioned many times that he believes our RB's have what it takes to carry our offense.

Try and remember our coaches didn't know what they were doing last year. We now have offensive coaches who have enjoyed success in the NFL, and have way more experience than the guys we had last year. Our players will be placed in situations that help them excel more often than last year, and we're going to see a dramatic change in how often we actually run the ball. (assuming we aren't down 20 points at halftime)

I'd love to tell you that Gordon is coming back, but even if he's reinstated, I'm not so sure our Browns take the guy back. We seem to really be distancing ourselves from players with "issues", and that's bad news for Gordon and Armonty Bryant. The thing is...if Gordon IS reinstated, I don't see the benefit of cutting him. I could totally see the Ravens snatching him up and using him to keep kicking the crap out of us. Maybe the only benefit of cutting him is finally being free of any drama inducing players...but is that enough?

As I've said before, our main issue on offensive (besides the lack of proven playmakers) is our lack of depth. I truly believe that we're going to start the season out with a couple of W's that people didn't expect, but as the injuries mount, we'll fade away.

gftChris

Hawkins is about speed and agility. If he doesn't stand out when nobody's hitting him there's a problem.

Unsympathetic

Soon, this Ghoolie guy will become a good troll. He just needs some more facts - and more racism!

NBA teams need more than just one option - and Kyrie was the #1 before LBJ came back. Kyrie has been a legit all-star from day1, 2 years before LBJ returned.

Back to reality: I'm most excited about seeing Pryor starting at WR.