Kokinis got schooled
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Why the name calling? What NFL team do you work for, you want to act as though you know everything and from reading your post you sound like a guy who gets the little knowledge you have from the Internet......TAKE A JUMP OF THE NEAREST BRIDGE
The Browns got screwed and you can spin it anyway you wish, I have my opinion and you can keep yours. You are the type of STUPID FAN that believes every draft is good and believe whatever garbage the front office feeds you, but I expect living in Nebraska does that to the brain if you have one.
We traded back from #5 gave the Jets a Franchise QB and we get 2 guys who were not good enough to start for the Jets then we make trades down with both Tampa and Philly to pickup extra picks in the 6th round when most 6th rounders don't make NFL rosters, why don't you look back the last 5 years the number of 6 round picks that have actually made a NFL roster.
Then we take 2 receivers who are exactly the same player and reach for a LB from Hawaii, Mangini wants to prove how smart he is and in 3 years you and everybody will be crying for a new coach after we win another 18 games over the next 3 years. Mangini thinks he is Belichek, sorry but there is only one Billy B, the Browns will regret the day they hired this MORON.
I don't have to work for the Browns to know there needs, Stevie Wonder can see we have terrible linebackers and no pass rush
You are the type of stupid fan (since you are gonna pull that out on someone) who think the flashy player with highlight reels is the way to go. You have your opinion the Browns got screwed, which would seem to be the minority, as everyone covering the draft, from TV to newspapers (local and national) think CLE got a heck of a deal from the Jets. Especially when you throw in player and system familiarity that comes with that. Throw in that Coleman was indeed a starter for several games last season, as did Elam. Should you really be throwing around the term Stupid Fan when you don't even know what these guys did last year as Jets?
Robiskie and Mossaquoi are not the same player at all. One is a solid #2 who brings a deep threat and the other is a solid possession slot receiver. The only similarities are height, weight, and playing at BCS schools. CLE didn't exactly reach for the kid from Hawaii either. He was a projected mid 3rd rounder.
How much of that lack of pass rush is player and how much is the actual defensive play calling. Having watched the Browns, it ain't all about the players. You aren't going to get pressure on a QB rushing 3 and 4 all the time. Especially if that 4th is always the same OLB.
Masters said:
You are the type of stupid fan (since you are gonna pull that out on someone) who think the flashy player with highlight reels is the way to go. You have your opinion the Browns got screwed, which would seem to be the minority, as everyone covering the draft, from TV to newspapers (local and national) think CLE got a heck of a deal from the Jets. Especially when you throw in player and system familiarity that comes with that. Throw in that Coleman was indeed a starter for several games last season, as did Elam. Should you really be throwing around the term Stupid Fan when you don't even know what these guys did last year as Jets?Robiskie and Mossaquoi are not the same player at all. One is a solid #2 who brings a deep threat and the other is a solid possession slot receiver. The only similarities are height, weight, and playing at BCS schools. CLE didn't exactly reach for the kid from Hawaii either. He was a projected mid 3rd rounder.
How much of that lack of pass rush is player and how much is the actual defensive play calling. Having watched the Browns, it ain't all about the players. You aren't going to get pressure on a QB rushing 3 and 4 all the time. Especially if that 4th is always the same OLB.
How many NFL corners is Mossaquoi going to be running past with 4.6 speed, he is not a burner and has problems with easy drops like Edwards
Why take 2 receivers back to back, I would have drafted receiver and running back or receiver outside LB, this team needs 2 outside linebackers,how long do you continue with Wimbley who has proven to be a one trick pony the league has figured out
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Masters sometime I'm amazed at some of the stuff you post. 1 center? They most certainly have 2.
I wasn't convinced that Center was going to be something Pittsburgh was going after with that first pick. They need a guard as well but that obviously wasn't going to be the 1st round pick.
D-line was a big need. Brett Keisel is ok but they need an upgrade there.
NT Casey Hampton is in his 9th year and that is a postion that Steelers will have to address soon.
I was surprised with the pick of Corner Lewis in the third round but it may have been a BAP as well as nickle help.
Glad you pointed that out Masters seems to think he knows everything about every team
The Steelers were going to have to draft a defensive lineman because there front 3 is all over the age of 30 and there backups are all over 30, after they franchised Starks and resigned Kemouteau (Sp) to that new contract, the Steelers let it known around the league they were not going to be drafting a offensive lineman with the 1st pick in the draft, they were going to take a defensive lineman or the guy they really wanted if he was there and they attempted to trade up to get him was Hakeem Nicks.
Glad you pointed that out Masters seems to think he knows everything about every team
The Steelers were going to have to draft a defensive lineman because there front 3 is all over the age of 30 and there backups are all over 30, after they franchised Starks and resigned Kemouteau (Sp) to that new contract, the Steelers let it known around the league they were not going to be drafting a offensive lineman with the 1st pick in the draft, they were going to take a defensive lineman or the guy they really wanted if he was there and they attempted to trade up to get him was Hakeem Nicks.
That would be you chief, not me. I didn't stand up and shout who is doing what right and wrong w/o knowing the players (first Elam wasn't a starter then he started a few games, then there is Coleman).
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No one knows for sure but I tend to agree. Keisel needs replaced and Hampton is getting old. It's a big need for them.
By the way, thanks for the update on LaPorta....Is this throw viewable anywhere?
PIT has Hoke behind Hampton.
Masters said:
PIT has Hoke behind Hampton.Only for depth chart purposes. Believe me, he's not a nose tackle. I'm not sure if he's even 300 lbs.
He's just a depth guy at the very best.
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Masters, you are wrong about the center discussion. All you did was look at the depth chart.
Stapleton is a center. He was a center at Rutgers and moved to guard out of need. Stapleton was even a Remmington finalist a few years ago.
That's why the Steelers went Guard today in the draft. It's also why I'm unsure if Center was going to be their pick at 32.
Masters, you are wrong about the center discussion. All you did was look at the depth chart.
Stapleton is a center. He was a center at Rutgers and moved to guard out of need. Stapleton was even a Remmington finalist a few years ago.
That's why the Steelers went Guard today in the draft. It's also why I'm unsure if Center was going to be their pick at 32.
It wasn't just looking at the depth chart. It was value and need position. They draft Mack or Wood, who are better than Stapleton, they don't need that G. We are talking about a team who has luxary with their picks at this point. They didn't have a true must need. PIT is build on running the ball and stopping the run. One they had problems with for large chunks last season, along with protecting the QB. We'll never know what PIT would have done if Mack or Wood was still sitting on the board at 32. It's all speculation.
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Masters said:
PIT has Hoke behind Hampton.Only for depth chart purposes. Believe me, he's not a nose tackle. I'm not sure if he's even 300 lbs.
He's just a depth guy at the very best.
Only for depth chart purposes. Believe me, he's not a nose tackle. I'm not sure if he's even 300 lbs.
He's just a depth guy at the very best.
Hoke is over 300lbs and filled in nicely for Hampton a few years ago when he went down. I am sure they'd like to get younger at NT, but this wasn't the draft for that where they were picking.
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Masters, you are wrong about the center discussion. All you did was look at the depth chart.
Stapleton is a center. He was a center at Rutgers and moved to guard out of need. Stapleton was even a Remmington finalist a few years ago.
That's why the Steelers went Guard today in the draft. It's also why I'm unsure if Center was going to be their pick at 32.
It wasn't just looking at the depth chart. It was value and need position. They draft Mack or Wood, who are better than Stapleton, they don't need that G. We are talking about a team who has luxary with their picks at this point. They didn't have a true must need. PIT is build on running the ball and stopping the run. One they had problems with for large chunks last season, along with protecting the QB. We'll never know what PIT would have done if Mack or Wood was still sitting on the board at 32. It's all speculation.
Masters said:
It wasn't just looking at the depth chart. It was value and need position. They draft Mack or Wood, who are better than Stapleton, they don't need that G. We are talking about a team who has luxary with their picks at this point. They didn't have a true must need. PIT is build on running the ball and stopping the run. One they had problems with for large chunks last season, along with protecting the QB. We'll never know what PIT would have done if Mack or Wood was still sitting on the board at 32. It's all speculation.Try to say what you want....Your exact quote was that they only had two centers on the roster. It was wrong.
Spin it any way you want. Why don't you just say "Oh yeah, I didn't realize that?"
When you try to spin it you sound goofy.
They needed a guard and went out and got it.
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Masters said:
You are the type of stupid fan (since you are gonna pull that out on someone) who think the flashy player with highlight reels is the way to go. You have your opinion the Browns got screwed, which would seem to be the minority, as everyone covering the draft, from TV to newspapers (local and national) think CLE got a heck of a deal from the Jets. Especially when you throw in player and system familiarity that comes with that. Throw in that Coleman was indeed a starter for several games last season, as did Elam. Should you really be throwing around the term Stupid Fan when you don't even know what these guys did last year as Jets?Robiskie and Mossaquoi are not the same player at all. One is a solid #2 who brings a deep threat and the other is a solid possession slot receiver. The only similarities are height, weight, and playing at BCS schools. CLE didn't exactly reach for the kid from Hawaii either. He was a projected mid 3rd rounder.
How much of that lack of pass rush is player and how much is the actual defensive play calling. Having watched the Browns, it ain't all about the players. You aren't going to get pressure on a QB rushing 3 and 4 all the time. Especially if that 4th is always the same OLB.
How many NFL corners is Mossaquoi going to be running past with 4.6 speed, he is not a burner and has problems with easy drops like Edwards
Why take 2 receivers back to back, I would have drafted receiver and running back or receiver outside LB, this team needs 2 outside linebackers,how long do you continue with Wimbley who has proven to be a one trick pony the league has figured out
How many NFL corners is Mossaquoi going to be running past with 4.6 speed, he is not a burner and has problems with easy drops like Edwards
Why take 2 receivers back to back, I would have drafted receiver and running back or receiver outside LB, this team needs 2 outside linebackers,how long do you continue with Wimbley who has proven to be a one trick pony the league has figured out
How many slot guys do you ask to burn past a nickle back down field? No one said he was a burner or be asked to be one. Point is, he and Robiskie are not the same guy, which you just said. Does what you just said really sound like Robiskie?
Why take two, well when your WR depth chart looks like Edwards and Patten heading into the season, you need WRs. CLE had a need at OLB and drafted one. One some guys really like as a rusher. The staff seems to think highly of Hall (as do I). I still don't buy guy who as a rookie got 11 sacks is all about him, when the production dropped. Watching the games, you see teams always know Wimbley is coming. You got him and 3 DL coming all day. It's not hard to put a LT on Wimbley and chip him, which teams regularly did. Let him play under a different coach before writing the kid off as a one trick pony figured out by the league. I think the scheme was the one trick pony figured out.
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Masters said:
It wasn't just looking at the depth chart. It was value and need position. They draft Mack or Wood, who are better than Stapleton, they don't need that G. We are talking about a team who has luxary with their picks at this point. They didn't have a true must need. PIT is build on running the ball and stopping the run. One they had problems with for large chunks last season, along with protecting the QB. We'll never know what PIT would have done if Mack or Wood was still sitting on the board at 32. It's all speculation.Try to say what you want....Your exact quote was that they only had two centers on the roster. It was wrong.
Spin it any way you want. Why don't you just say "Oh yeah, I didn't realize that?"
When you try to spin it you sound goofy.
They needed a guard and went out and got it.
Try to say what you want....Your exact quote was that they only had two centers on the roster. It was wrong.
Spin it any way you want. Why don't you just say "Oh yeah, I didn't realize that?"
When you try to spin it you sound goofy.
They needed a guard and went out and got it.
And? They got guys that can move, but at this point, they had two C penciled in on their roster. And I did say you got me and they had two, not one. Do you really need more of a pat on the back.
I'll contend they could use a G, just as they could use a DE, NT, and C. I think they would have taken the C had one of the top 2 been available when they picked.
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Try to say what you want....Your exact quote was that they only had two centers on the roster. It was wrong.
Spin it any way you want. Why don't you just say "Oh yeah, I didn't realize that?"
When you try to spin it you sound goofy.
They needed a guard and went out and got it.
And? They got guys that can move, but at this point, they had two C penciled in on their roster. And I did say you got me and they had two, not one. Do you really need more of a pat on the back.
I'll contend they could use a G, just as they could use a DE, NT, and C. I think they would have taken the C had one of the top 2 been available when they picked.
Masters said:
And I did say you got me and they had two, not one. Do you really need more of a pat on the back.I'm sorry. I Didn't read that anywhere in your post.
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Masters said:
And I did say you got me and they had two, not one. Do you really need more of a pat on the back.I'm sorry. I Didn't read that anywhere in your post.
I'm sorry. I Didn't read that anywhere in your post.
No sweat.
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Let me help.
We got the best Center in the draft who can also play Guard. BTW, Pittsburgh REALLY wanted Mack. We also added 2 guys that started on the Jets D plus 3 more picks than we started the day with. Aside from that, we needed WRs and landed 2 and added an OLBer/pass rusher.
Not for nothing but when Kokinos came here he was looking at 4 draft picks for 2009. Don't forget he got 1 pick for Winslow this year and 1 more pick for Winslow next year. Kokinos & Co addressed ALOT more holes on our roster than you think today. Now we're looking at 4 more picks tomorrow. Could have been a lot worse.
- Tom F.
Flugs, I don't know where you got your information but the Steelers were not interested in taking Mack, they were going defensive line or wide receiver in the 1st round
Yea we picked up extra draft picks, but how many of these 2nd day picks are going to help this team, how many 6th round picks make NFL rosters
We got a average safety and backup defensive end from the jets, 2 guys who are stop gap players for a few years
Why pick 2 receivers when this team needed a running back to replace tip toe Lewis and a pass rusher that we still don't have
If this could have been worse I would have hate to see what these CLOWNS would have done
I did not like the Mangini hiring and after today I like it less
Seems to me Mangini is coach and GM and Kokinis just has a title but Mangini is the person making most of the decisions, thought I heard Lerner say after Butch Davis he did'nt want one person with all the power.
Flugs, I don't know where you got your information but the Steelers were not interested in taking Mack, they were going defensive line or wide receiver in the 1st round
Yea we picked up extra draft picks, but how many of these 2nd day picks are going to help this team, how many 6th round picks make NFL rosters
We got a average safety and backup defensive end from the jets, 2 guys who are stop gap players for a few years
Why pick 2 receivers when this team needed a running back to replace tip toe Lewis and a pass rusher that we still don't have
If this could have been worse I would have hate to see what these CLOWNS would have done
I did not like the Mangini hiring and after today I like it less
Seems to me Mangini is coach and GM and Kokinis just has a title but Mangini is the person making most of the decisions, thought I heard Lerner say after Butch Davis he did'nt want one person with all the power.
I think the thought process in bringing in another BB pupil was to maintain the continuity of the 3-4 that many of our younger players were being trained to play in. Mangini won 9 games in his first season in NY (2006) and won 10 games in 2008. More specifically, when he had healthy QBs - he won consistently. I'd rather have our GM and Head Coach in the same universe this time around so we're more like the organizations that were best known for getting it right.
As for all the day 2 additions that concern you - take a look at what SF did when they added guys like Steve Wallace, Don Griffen and Tim McKyer and others. They were on the NFL Channel's Top 10 drafts. John McVey said Walsh kept presssing him to trade back further and further into day 2.
The Buffalo Bills had countless day 2 picks materializing into 4 consecutive SB appearances.
Pro Bowl Corners named Cortland Finnegan (Samford College) rd 7 and Assante Sameuls (UCF) rd 4. Brian Westbrook day 2. Ike Taylor & Deshea Townsend both rd 4. Brett Keisel rd 7, Aaron Smith rd 4, James Harrison undrafted, Willie Parker undrafted, Larry Foote rd 4... Day 2 matters!
Other noteworthy day 2 draft picks in rd 6 or later:
Marc Bulger rd 6
Tom Brady rd 6
Terrell Davis rd 6
Jamaal Anderson rd 6
Ernest Byner rd 10
Brian Sipe rd 13
Jake Delhomme wasn't drafted but cut by New Orleans before showing up in Carolina
Tony Romance wasn't drafted
Matt Hasselbeck rd 6
I think your BEST GMs work very closely with the Head Coach and scouting staff so there's MORE to a draft than what you do in the upper part of round 1. In the 80s, we had good players coming in from all different directions. This year we doubled our draft volume and added starters via trade. It's a nice start for Mangini and Kokinos. If we put all our marbles into just the #5 pick overall, what happens when his knee shatters the way LeCharles Bentley's knee and Courtney Brown's knee did? Then what? We're right back top being held hostage from committing all our marble into 1 superstar. If that formula worked, we would have been all set a long time ago but here we are.
Let's give Mangini and Kokinos a chance. Again, they were only left 4 draft picks for this draft so I think they showed me some ability to problem solve and learn from our history and their history.
- Tom F.
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Lmao!!! Just read through the majority of this thread since I missed it in April. For sanity's sake (yours, not mine) I do my best to avoid the board during the offseason. Too much time on my hands to think the worst. No point in making everybody else nuts the same time I'm rocking back and forth in my lil corner.
I would be way out in left field if I was posting in April.
Delonte would look sane next to me.Excited to watch the game tonight! 8:15 start for me. Got the kid til 8. Don't want to give her nightmares.
This is why FAN is short for FANATICAL...
0-3 start.
New coach that some of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready.
New OC that most of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready.
Owner that most of us wish would sell the team.
Year 3 of the DA/BQ saga.
$1701 fines for water.
tempers in the locker room.
More grievances filed with the league than touchdowns scored.
AND here I sit... antsy. Butterflies. I can't wait to watch the game!!!!!!
it puts the lotion on it's skin, or it's forced to watch the Browns -
At least mack is playing and learning and we dont know much about the other mankok picks as they never get to play because according to the staff in minced and questionable words..they are fragile little babies that arent ready to play in the nfl yet or they arent as good as those on the field hmmm ok...
I think its time to start building for next year by seeing if these guys can at least hang with the big boyz or rather gooni needs to cut em loose and try again...
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At least mack is playing and learning and we dont know much about the other mankok picks as they never get to play because according to the staff in minced and questionable words..they are fragile little babies that arent ready to play in the nfl yet or they arent as good as those on the field hmmm ok...
I think its time to start building for next year by seeing if these guys can at least hang with the big boyz or rather gooni needs to cut em loose and try again...
At least mack is playing and learning and we dont know much about the other mankok picks as they never get to play because according to the staff in minced and questionable words..they are fragile little babies that arent ready to play in the nfl yet or they arent as good as those on the field hmmm ok...
I think its time to start building for next year by seeing if these guys can at least hang with the big boyz or rather gooni needs to cut em loose and try again...
I'd like to see them get playing time too. Maybe after an 0-4 start.
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Yeah, the Steelers wanted Mack. Sorry Sony, but your whining isn't right this time.
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Some people have tunnel vision and can't or refuse to see outside the box.
I think some people get ticked when the professional evaluators view players and needs differently then they do.
Rey is a good example. All year long people bought in to the hype and envisioned the next Ray Lewis, yet when the rubber met the road, he was the last starting USC backer selected.
Why is that???
The answer is in the first words of this post.
Some people have tunnel vision and can't or refuse to see outside the box.
I think some people get ticked when the professional evaluators view players and needs differently then they do.
Rey is a good example. All year long people bought in to the hype and envisioned the next Ray Lewis, yet when the rubber met the road, he was the last starting USC backer selected.
Why is that???
The answer is in the first words of this post.
you were saying?
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compared to what NE got...and the other trades...kokinis got schooled especially in regard to Sanchez trade...a second rounder and a saftey& two backups? The Rookie showed his colors today...we got a 6th for tampa movin up to 17...short changed...a 6th for phily movin up to 19....Ne gets a 5th for baltimore to move up to 23.... schooled!!!
Would you rather have Maclin, Rey, (massaqua) and rashard johnson??/ i sure as hell would
Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact, we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact, we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
Terrible!!!
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Some people have tunnel vision and can't or refuse to see outside the box.
I think some people get ticked when the professional evaluators view players and needs differently then they do.
Rey is a good example. All year long people bought in to the hype and envisioned the next Ray Lewis, yet when the rubber met the road, he was the last starting USC backer selected.
Why is that???
The answer is in the first words of this post.
you were saying?
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As someone who knows the three players received from the Jets well....I can tell you that you got two bona fide starters and a legitimate backup QB in addition to the second round pick. THEY FLEECED THE JETS not the other way around.
All of these guys have character to bring to a locker room that's in need of it.
Alex Mack is intelligent and tough as they come. Maualuga has serious off the field issues. Get over it. No wonder he went to Cincy.
By the way....Jennings is still on the board in the fourth....so second would be a reach.
For a team that only had four draft picks...they've parlayed them into four starters. Well done Mr. Kokinis.
As someone who knows the three players received from the Jets well....I can tell you that you got two bona fide starters and a legitimate backup QB in addition to the second round pick. THEY FLEECED THE JETS not the other way around.
All of these guys have character to bring to a locker room that's in need of it.
Alex Mack is intelligent and tough as they come. Maualuga has serious off the field issues. Get over it. No wonder he went to Cincy.
By the way....Jennings is still on the board in the fourth....so second would be a reach.
For a team that only had four draft picks...they've parlayed them into four starters. Well done Mr. Kokinis.
wrong
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