Draft Talk
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Mean while back at the draft...
Came across this article on draftwire... it's short so posted it in its entirety.Who is the best pass-rusher in the 2017 NFL draft not named Myles Garrett?
The 2017 NFL draft should be loaded with talented edge defenders who can wreak havoc on opposing quarterbacks.
The group is headlined by Texas A&Ms Myles Garrett, who is widely regarded as the top overall prospect in the entire draft, regardless of position. But after him, there are a handful of disruptive defenders jockeying for position as the next-best option for NFL teams looking for a sack-master.
The SEC not only claims Garrett, but also a trio of top prospects at the position in Alabamas Tim Williams, Tennessees Derek Barnett and Auburns Carl Lawson. UCLAs Takkarist McKinley has been a hot name as of late, while Illinois has an underrated rusher in Dawuane Smoot. Williams isnt the only Crimson Tide rusher worthy of first-round consideration, as Ryan Anderson will be in the conversation, as well.
So, who takes the No. 2 spot on the edge after Garrett?
Good question... the right answer could allow a QB/edge or Allen/Edge or trade-down option to be palatable.
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Myles Garrett please.
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Honestly Garrett has the talent to be "generational" (lol), but with all those options at the same position I just think it spells doom for a Browns/Garrett marriage.
Tim Williams is the best pass rusher (from a production standpoint, he is better than Garrett), but for two years now Alabama has refused to play him on basically anything but obvious passing downs. While you would like to assume he plays the run well just by virtue of the priority placed on it by the coaches he plays for, I doubt there is a ton of tape on that. You always have to question how good he will be taking, say, double the snaps in a game than he is used to. Also different from Garrett in that while Garrett is not an ideal fit for 3-4 DE, you can strip the threads, grab the hammer, and find a way. Williams, on the other hand, is OLB in a 3-4 all the way.
Barnett is a stud all around. Saw him absolutely smoke Cam Robinson (Alabama projected 1st round OT pick--3 year starter) on a speed rush a couple times in their game. Much more disciplined against the run than anyone we're talking about here (although I'll reiterate Williams sample size there is very small).
Lawson is a lesser Barnett.
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Nice takes...
My only Garrett issue remains scheme fit. We know we want to be a 3-4 and I worry about standing Garrett up. And I fear the pounding he'd take as an undersized 3-4 DE would take its toll.
Truthfully I hadn't thought much about Williams even tho I've been consistently impressed by him in a few BAMA games this season.
Allen - Shelton - Bryant
Williams - Kirksey - Davis - Collins
I think I could like that a lot...
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"McShay: I'll say this: It's not a great year to be drafting early and needing a quarterback."
"5. If you had to put your money behind one guy from this class to be the NFL's next great pass-rusher, who would it be?
Kiper: There's no question it's Texas A&M's Myles Garrett, who is No. 1 on my Big Board. He has everything teams want in a premier edge rusher. At 6-foot-5, 265 pounds, he's going to be a star. Others to keep an eye on: Alabama's Tim Williams and UCLA's Takkarist McKinley. All could go in the top 10.
6. What should the Browns do with the first pick: best player or best QB?
Kiper: The Browns have too many needs. It has to be the best player, and as I mentioned above, there's no surefire top quarterback in this class. Cleveland needs everything. No way should the Browns reach for a quarterback in this draft."
I don't always agree with Kiper, but in this instance he is right. If we reach for another name for the cross-out T-shirt, then we have a ship of fools running and ruining this program.
I'll say this: It's not a great year to be drafting early and needing a quarterback."
Kiper: there's no surefire top quarterback in this class. Cleveland needs everything. No way should the Browns reach for a quarterback in this draft."Lady and Gentlemen... I give you the "Kiper Kiss of Death"...
Ha watch there be three great quarterbacks come out of this class. In the famous words of Mel- that I'll never forget "mmmmmuuuuusssssttt draft Hart Lee Dykes." A monumental first round bust.
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Nice takes...
My only Garrett issue remains scheme fit. We know we want to be a 3-4 and I worry about standing Garrett up. And I fear the pounding he'd take as an undersized 3-4 DE would take its toll.
Truthfully I hadn't thought much about Williams even tho I've been consistently impressed by him in a few BAMA games this season.
Allen - Shelton - Bryant
Williams - Kirksey - Davis - Collins
I think I could like that a lot...
Nice takes...
My only Garrett issue remains scheme fit. We know we want to be a 3-4 and I worry about standing Garrett up. And I fear the pounding he'd take as an undersized 3-4 DE would take its toll.
Truthfully I hadn't thought much about Williams even tho I've been consistently impressed by him in a few BAMA games this season.
Allen - Shelton - Bryant
Williams - Kirksey - Davis - Collins
I think I could like that a lot...
I think that's the value move here. Let's see how Williams' coverage and run D skills are when good tape comes out.
And just want to say before someone looks in depth and it turns out I am wrong on any of this, these takes come from buzzed fall Saturday's on my couch flipping through CFB games, reading PFF's upgraded college section the last two years, and (re)watching alot of A&M games where I usually focus on the OL.
I believe Williams generated double digit sacks on just a hair over 100 snaps last year. Something ridiculous like that.
Report of last year:
11 sacks, 8 hits, 33 hurries. 52 total pressures on 148 pass rush snaps last year. That's a pressure every 2.7 pass rush attempts. Bosa last year? 4.9. As of 3 weeks ago, Williams had played 127 run plays over the last three seasons.
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I also worry about Garrett retiring in 4 years to become an author or something. Fortunately, the really big hits don't happen on the line usually so he won't be encouraged by concussion issues.
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I also worry about Garrett retiring in 4 years to become an author or something. Fortunately, the really big hits don't happen on the line usually so he won't be encouraged by concussion issues.
I also worry about Garrett retiring in 4 years to become an author or something. Fortunately, the really big hits don't happen on the line usually so he won't be encouraged by concussion issues.
Maybe not retiring, but you could see him wanting to go to san fransisco or NY or somewhere like that.
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I could also definitely get behind the 'bama first round of Allen and Williams.
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Here is the key question for the Browns when considering the Garrett pick: Will they form the defense around the talent or will they try to form the talent around the defense? He is a very versatile player in that often times this season they would send him to various other positions along the LOS and occasionally even do a stand up and drop back into coverage. I think he has the talent to make another true Von Miller out of him as a OLB in the 3-4 if they decide to stick with that D. He has the speed, moves and "bendability" around OT's to pull that off after a learning curve which I think can be relatively short. I think of him as a Miller-Ware combo guy if he comes off the R side of the D.
As to Tim Williams I could see him as our 2nd 1st rounder if we go with the QB at #1. I think he is the second best pass rusher in this draft, and not too much a drop off from Garrett other than size.
As to Allen I could see us going with him at #1 and Williams #2 if we are intent on a 3-4 90% of the time and realize there is not a QB worth it at #1. It's worked quite well for Bama. I could live with that.
Edit: chris you took the words right out of my fingers while typing.
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Yeah of course, if they decide a QB is worth it then he's worth it at #1 and that's that. Then a Tim Williams makes a whole lot of sense. If not, getting Allen and Williams would give us a potentially nasty front seven if we keep collins, the weak point of which would be Demario Davis, who isn't exactly a slouch.
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Or what about a Garrett-Williams 1 2 punch? Wow then who do you double team? It would be like Ware-Miller at Denver.
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If we're keeping Collins we are set at one OLB position, and I think we need a bit more disruption on the DL but I'm not gonna cry if we get those two!
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I don't know....neither do you. It is all speculation. I know that I think the Browns think they need a QB.
Or, do you really think that they are going to ensure the future of this team to RG or Kessler. If they do, then, yes, they must be dismissed.
Then why all the certitude in your posts?
And BTW... I've never said what I'd do this year let alone pretended I know what our FO will do.
Then why all the certitude in your posts?
And BTW... I've never said what I'd do this year let alone pretended I know what our FO will do.
I am certain that the Browns will be in the market for a QB. Aren't you? My preference is that QB be Trubisky. Be that as it may.
I am certain that Trubisky will NOT be available if the Browns try to wait until their second pick of the draft.....whatever that is. (absent a trade up by them to #2).
If you don't think that is the case, then look no further than last year when guys that were originally thought to perhap be late first round picks ended up going 1, 2.
The need for a good QB does not go away in the NFL. If the Browns don't get him, then 2-3 teams that draft in the Top 5 behind them will be in the market for him.
That I can say with certitude.
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I also worry about Garrett retiring in 4 years to become an author or something. Fortunately, the really big hits don't happen on the line usually so he won't be encouraged by concussion issues.
Maybe not retiring, but you could see him wanting to go to san fransisco or NY or somewhere like that.
Maybe not retiring, but you could see him wanting to go to san fransisco or NY or somewhere like that.
Not sure if you're calling him gay or a partier, but he's neither.
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Yeah of course, if they decide a QB is worth it then he's worth it at #1 and that's that. Then a Tim Williams makes a whole lot of sense. If not, getting Allen and Williams would give us a potentially nasty front seven if we keep collins, the weak point of which would be Demario Davis, who isn't exactly a slouch.
Yeah of course, if they decide a QB is worth it then he's worth it at #1 and that's that. Then a Tim Williams makes a whole lot of sense. If not, getting Allen and Williams would give us a potentially nasty front seven if we keep collins, the weak point of which would be Demario Davis, who isn't exactly a slouch.
SCOOOOOOBY!
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Not sure if you're calling him gay or a partier, but he's neither.
Easy buddy, neither. I'm saying he seems by all accounts to have an artistic soul, one that might feel somehwat shackled in the blue collar, rust belt settings of cleveland but would be freed in somewhere like those places.
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Not sure if you're calling him gay or a partier, but he's neither.
Easy buddy, neither. I'm saying he seems by all accounts to have an artistic soul, one that might feel somehwat shackled in the blue collar, rust belt settings of cleveland but would be freed in somewhere like those places.
Easy buddy, neither. I'm saying he seems by all accounts to have an artistic soul, one that might feel somehwat shackled in the blue collar, rust belt settings of cleveland but would be freed in somewhere like those places.
He'll be writing a children's guide to dinosaurs in his spare time.
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Nice takes...
My only Garrett issue remains scheme fit. We know we want to be a 3-4 and I worry about standing Garrett up. And I fear the pounding he'd take as an undersized 3-4 DE would take its toll.
Truthfully I hadn't thought much about Williams even tho I've been consistently impressed by him in a few BAMA games this season.
Allen - Shelton - Bryant
Williams - Kirksey - Davis - Collins
I think I could like that a lot...
I think that's the value move here. Let's see how Williams' coverage and run D skills are when good tape comes out.
And just want to say before someone looks in depth and it turns out I am wrong on any of this, these takes come from buzzed fall Saturday's on my couch flipping through CFB games, reading PFF's upgraded college section the last two years, and (re)watching alot of A&M games where I usually focus on the OL.
I believe Williams generated double digit sacks on just a hair over 100 snaps last year. Something ridiculous like that.
Report of last year:
11 sacks, 8 hits, 33 hurries. 52 total pressures on 148 pass rush snaps last year. That's a pressure every 2.7 pass rush attempts. Bosa last year? 4.9. As of 3 weeks ago, Williams had played 127 run plays over the last three seasons.
And just want to say before someone looks in depth and it turns out I am wrong on any of this, these takes come from buzzed fall Saturday's on my couch flipping through CFB games, reading PFF's upgraded college section the last two years, and (re)watching alot of A&M games where I usually focus on the OL.
lmao... still puts you near the top of the class around here...
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Here is the key question for the Browns when considering the Garrett pick: Will they form the defense around the talent or will they try to form the talent around the defense? He is a very versatile player in that often times this season they would send him to various other positions along the LOS and occasionally even do a stand up and drop back into coverage. I think he has the talent to make another true Von Miller out of him as a OLB in the 3-4 if they decide to stick with that D. He has the speed, moves and "bendability" around OT's to pull that off after a learning curve which I think can be relatively short. I think of him as a Miller-Ware combo guy if he comes off the R side of the D.
As to Tim Williams I could see him as our 2nd 1st rounder if we go with the QB at #1. I think he is the second best pass rusher in this draft, and not too much a drop off from Garrett other than size.
As to Allen I could see us going with him at #1 and Williams #2 if we are intent on a 3-4 90% of the time and realize there is not a QB worth it at #1. It's worked quite well for Bama. I could live with that.
Edit: chris you took the words right out of my fingers while typing.
Here is the key question for the Browns when considering the Garrett pick: Will they form the defense around the talent or will they try to form the talent around the defense? He is a very versatile player in that often times this season they would send him to various other positions along the LOS and occasionally even do a stand up and drop back into coverage. I think he has the talent to make another true Von Miller out of him as a OLB in the 3-4 if they decide to stick with that D. He has the speed, moves and "bendability" around OT's to pull that off after a learning curve which I think can be relatively short. I think of him as a Miller-Ware combo guy if he comes off the R side of the D.
And therein lies the rub... we know Horton leans towards the 3-4, but is not adverse to the 4-3, which he shifted towards as our 2016 DL "talent" became apparent.
Were Pet still here, then Garrett as a clear upgrade in the Kruger-role would seem a slam dunk... even tho Pet would probably use him wrong by dropping him into coverage 20 times a year...
Then again... who knows? Maybe we'll pluck a Fickle from THE mid-state team and go 4-3 for real.
If we're keeping Collins we are set at one OLB position, and I think we need a bit more disruption on the DL but I'm not gonna cry if we get those two!
And therein lies another rub... the Draft precedes the key UFA activity with the exception of "tagging" which is in mid-Feb.
Easy buddy, neither. I'm saying he seems by all accounts to have an artistic soul, one that might feel somehwat shackled in the blue collar, rust belt settings of cleveland but would be freed in somewhere like those places.
Then again Troy P's soul was nourished in Pittsburgh...
Garrett can always get a place close to University Circle... maybe on Coventry Rd. Plus he's coming from College Station, TX... not exactly the Fine arts capitol of the world... or even Texas...
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