Carson Wentz

hoorta

@the-gipper said:
WHY OH WHY DIDN'T WE DRAFT KEN STABLER IN 1968 IN THE FIRST ROUND INSTEAD OF TAKING MARVIN UPSHAW. (STABLER DRAFTED IN 2D ROUND #52 BY RAIDERS)

You're obviously not listening Gip. Boo f**king hoo. 1968 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 2016 EITHER. Shit, you'd have to be 60 years old to remember that one. LOL, the Internet didn't exist then, so buy a clue. For the record, I'm only counting 1999 on for screw ups, though I'd sure like to include the likes of Craig Powell, Mike Junkin, and Tom Cousineau (forfeited first round pick) in the list . Sort of recent history that just might have changed the the current Browns fortunes.

So Mr Trivia Master, why don't you rank the 10 biggest Browns draft failures since 1999? Right now, I have passing on Wentz as the solid #2, with the potential of moving up to #1. That spot is still held by drafting Spare Change Warren instead of Ladainian Tomlinson or Richard Seymour.

Besides that, here's a list for your consideration. Smokin' Willie Green. Manziel, Wee-done, Quinn. Trent Richardson. Mohamed Massivedrop, Brian Slowbiskie, David Veikune, Blow Bell, Jeremiah (robbing the phamacy) Pharms. Barky Bingo, Justin Gilbert, Vince Mayle. So many busts to chose from.

Now in 5 years, we might look on this as similar to the Hershell Walker trade that got the Browns to a couple of Super Bowls- or a dumb ass move that got the Harvard Brainless trust out to selling Hot Dogs on West 6th street.

PS instead of arguing about Wentz, why not avoid this thread? It's not like we have 10 simultaneous ones going as we did with the departed A&M Party Boy.

The Gipper

So Mr Trivia Master, why don't you rank the 10 biggest Browns draft failures since 1999? Right now, I have passing on Wentz as the solid #2, with the potential of moving up to #1. That spot is still held by drafting Spare Change Warren instead of Ladainian Tomlinson or Richard Seymour.

If I did this I would limit it to: "who are the biggest failures that the Browns actually drafted", not to "who are the legion of players the Browns coulda had". You listed many of them.

I will give you a baker's dozen in fact:

Quinn

Weeden

Manziel

Richardson

Gilbert

Mingo

Wm. Green

Courtney Brown

Edwards

Warren

Taylor

Robiskie

Chaun Thompson

Now, your question is: who COULD we have had instead of these guys. It will take some time, but I will check it out.

The Gipper

Here you go, here is the second guessers delight of Browns draft picks, first column is person Browns took, second column is a guy they coulda had in the same spot that was drafted later:

Courtney Brown......Brian Urlacher

Gerard Warren.....LaDanian Tomlinson

William Green.....Ed Reed

Braylon Edwards....DeMarcus Ware

Kameron Wimbley....Tamba Hali

Brady Quinn....Eric Weddle

Brian Robiskie...LeSean McCoy

Phil Taylor....not make the trade, take Julio Jones

Trent Richardson....Luke Kuechley

Brandon Weeden....Russell Wilson

Barkevious Mingo....DeAndre Hopkins

Justin Gilbert....don't make trade, take Khalil Mack....or even with trade take Aaron Donald

J. Manziel....Derek Carr

Happy now?

hoorta

@the-gipper said:

Here you go, here is the second guessers delight of Browns draft picks, first column is person Browns took, second column is a guy they coulda had in the same spot that was drafted later:

Courtney Brown......Brian Urlacher

Gerard Warren.....LaDanian Tomlinson

William Green.....Ed Reed

Braylon Edwards....DeMarcus Ware

Kameron Wimbley....Tamba Hali

Brady Quinn....Eric Weddle

Brian Robiskie...LeSean McCoy

Phil Taylor....not make the trade, take Julio Jones

Trent Richardson....Luke Kuechley

Brandon Weeden....Russell Wilson

Barkevious Mingo....DeAndre Hopkins

Justin Gilbert....don't make trade, take Khalil Mack....or even with trade take Aaron Donald

J. Manziel....Derek Carr

Happy now?

LOL Gip, that list is enough to get out the barf bag. You missed one that still rankles though. 2004, Kellen Winslow or Ben Rothlisberger. Personally recommended by Moi. Had Ben been drafted by the Browns, we probably would have overlooked his bar indiscretions.

PS- I'd put drafting Brady Quinn in the #3 pole position of mess ups. Remember that the Browns traded up to get Quinn giving up a 2008 first round pick to Dallas that could have been Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, or Jordy Nelson.

The Gipper

@hoorta said:

LOL Gip, that list is enough to get out the barf bag. You missed one that still rankles though. 2004, Kellen Winslow or Ben Rothlisberger. Personally recommended by Moi. Had Ben been drafted by the Browns, we probably would have overlooked his bar indiscretions.

PS- I'd put drafting Brady Quinn in the #3 pole position of mess ups. Remember that the Browns traded up to get Quinn giving up a 2008 first round pick to Dallas that could have been Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, or Jordy Nelson.

Actually, I messed one of these picks up badly:

2005....instead of Braylon, Browns coulda taken Aaron Rodgers. That to me was a far bigger mess up than taking K2 over BR.

(plus, I did the above in chronological rank....not merit rank. Quinn may have been the worse pick...but perhaps not the worst situation where we passed over someone else.

StinkHole

@the-gipper said:

Here you go, here is the second guessers delight of Browns draft picks, first column is person Browns took, second column is a guy they coulda had in the same spot that was drafted later:

Courtney Brown......Brian Urlacher

Gerard Warren.....LaDanian Tomlinson

William Green.....Ed Reed

Braylon Edwards....DeMarcus Ware

Kameron Wimbley....Tamba Hali

Brady Quinn....Eric Weddle

Brian Robiskie...LeSean McCoy

Phil Taylor....not make the trade, take Julio Jones

Trent Richardson....Luke Kuechley

Brandon Weeden....Russell Wilson

Barkevious Mingo....DeAndre Hopkins

Justin Gilbert....don't make trade, take Khalil Mack....or even with trade take Aaron Donald

J. Manziel....Derek Carr

Happy now?

You're getting off track here. Every team blows picks. We are talking solely about the QB position, the most important position in football that for 17yrs. the browns have failed to acquire a franchise QB.

You've seen that jersey with all the browns QB's since 99 listed on it all over the internet....never saw one with Taylor crossed out and "shoulda been J. Jones" written under it LOL.

I understand that the browns missing on Wentz is water under the bridge, but after 17 yrs. a mistake of that magnitude is not easy to just poo poo and not talk about.

Bitching about your own team is part of being a fan.

The Gipper

@stinkhole said:

You're getting off track here.

No I'm not. This is what Hoorta asked for. And we ride on whatever tracks we choose. We can go to Atchison, or Topeka, or Santa Fe.

Every team blows picks. We are talking solely about the QB position, the most important position in football that for 17yrs. the browns have failed to acquire a franchise QB.

QB is ONE position we are talking about. We can talk about all the positions on the field.

You've seen that jersey with all the browns QB's since 99 listed on it all over the internet....never saw one with Taylor crossed out and "shoulda been J. Jones" written under it LOL.

You act as if QB is the only position they have fucked up with their picks. It sure as hell ain't. If the Browns had hit paydirt on every position but QB over the last 17 years, we would not be talking so badly about the QBs. The rest of the team likely would have been strong.

But they have missed on RB, WR, DL, LB,DBs (though, honestly their high picks at OL have been OK really....Faine, Mack, JT, Bito, Schwartz.....etc. the biggest one of concern is Erving

I understand that the browns missing on Wentz is water under the bridge, but after 17 yrs. a mistake of that magnitude is not easy to just poo poo and not talk about.

Why don't you go off and commit corporal mortification to atone for your sins.

I am not going to do the same to myself over fucking Carson Wentz.

You want to be Christ like? Die for my sins...or the Browns sins.

Otherwise, STFU.

hoorta

@stinkhole said:

You're getting off track here. Every team blows picks. We are talking solely about the QB position, the most important position in football that for 17yrs. the browns have failed to acquire a franchise QB.

You've seen that jersey with all the browns QB's since 99 listed on it all over the internet.

I understand that the browns missing on Wentz is water under the bridge, but after 17 yrs. a mistake of that magnitude is not easy to just poo poo and not talk about.

BUT- the point I was making with Gip is since 1999, the Browns have written the book on how to blow draft picks, year after year. Not just at the QB position. Missed on HOFer Tomlinson & a bunch more I'd say at this point are mortal locks (Reed, Rodgers, Rothlisberger), Yikes, missing on Rodgers and Rothlisberger, too early to say with certainty about Wentz, but right now it's not looking good. (Who could have guessed Wilson and Brady were going to turn out stellar?) In all those years, only two big hits- the Joes, Haden and Thomas.

What has me concerned is we went shopping in the bargain bin again this year with Kessler. Tried that before with Frye and McCoy. If this year pans out as I expect- the Browns will have their pick of "franchise" qbs next year Kiser, Watson or Kaaya- they had better not blow it, or trade down again next year.

Canton Dawg

Interesting tweet from Gil Brandt. . .

Of 8 current starting QBs that were drafted No. 1 overall, Sam Bradford is only 1 w/ winning record this season. Other 7 are combined 9-19.

Dennis H

We'll want a lift to Brown's Hotel.

The Gipper

@canton-dawg said:

Interesting tweet from Gil Brandt. . .

Of 8 current starting QBs that were drafted No. 1 overall, Sam Bradford is only 1 w/ winning record this season. Other 7 are combined 9-19.

Winston

Newton

Stafford

Goff...I guess they include him.

Alex Smith

Eli

Carson Palmer

Then Bradford?

Tour2ma

Lot of posts for a Bye week...

Canton Dawg

@the-gipper said:

Winston

Newton

Stafford

Goff...I guess they include him.

Alex Smith

Eli

Carson Palmer

Then Bradford?

I think you overlooked Andrew Luck.

The Gipper

@canton-dawg said:
I think you overlooked Andrew Luck.

Yep, I thought I was missing someone....not named Jamarcus Russell.

I Vick still considered active? I think he had been looking for a team,...and the Browns had thought about him, nay?

Canton Dawg

@the-gipper said:

Yep, I thought I was missing someone....not named Jamarcus Russell.

I Vick still considered active? I think he had been looking for a team,...and the Browns had thought about him, nay?

He's still available, but I don't think there are any takers.

MasterDog

We could had Mack and Carr!!! 2 corner stone players on opposite side of the ball.

But we BLEW it because of some bum and a dumb phone call...

How the fock did the front office not dig anything up during their due diligence?

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/10/6/13186714/johnny-manziel-s-long-time-friend-says-going-to-cleveland-was-the-worst-thing-ever

wargograw

Why are we still talking about this?

calfoxwc

different front office, different coaching staff back then.

different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.different front office, different coaching staff back then.

different front office, different coaching staff back then.

"sigh"

MasterDog

@wargograw said:
Why are we still talking about this?

Blah! Because I'm depressed.

gumby73

@masterdog said:
Blah! Because I'm depressed.

Maybe a hope..Guess Roger loved the Wentz craz & Profit Rating of Eagles games too. 2 days ago the appeal on starting RT Lane Johnson was finally heard on a 10 game suspension for his 2nd PED charge IN JUNE. Appeal decision may not happen this week with Lions game. But in the future 10 games, a OL shuffle may cause issues similar to Browns.LG Barbre will go to RT. S. Wisniewski will slide to LG. More pending penalties & Wentz less time in pocket to release may make him the Rookie the Manning's may remember #clevfromphilly