Who takes the fall?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@cainedesoulis said:

what from this year indicates that we will be a good team in the year 2018 by your measure tim? out of a potential 48 games in that time frame we are about to lose the first 16 of them. so at what point does your clinging to this "Plan" become nothing more than delusion?

We could go 0-16 and it would be fine... IF we showed improvement and were competitive... neither of these things has happend to any great consistency this year

The 17 or so rookies we had this year won't be rookies by 2018. Even further, the next 10 or so rookies we're poised to take won't be rookies by that time either.

At what point does your stomping around and complaining become nothing more than proof of you being a whiny, impatient bitch?

CaineDeSoulis

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The 17 or so rookies we had this year won't be rookies by 2018. Even further, the next 10 or so rookies we're poised to take won't be rookies by that time either.

At what point does your stomping around and complaining become nothing more than proof of you being a whiny, impatient bitch?

Its okay to be defensive. being wrong about something can be a tough pill to swallow.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@cainedesoulis said:
Its okay to be defensive. being wrong about something can be a tough pill to swallow.

There's a difference in being defensive and being fed up with stupidity.

You, and everyone else calling for yet another demolition, are fucking stupid. There's no way around it.

CaineDeSoulis

@taco918 said:
If I didn't know any better, I'd assume CaineDeSoulis is angling for the job.

i am 100% confident that i could match Jackson's record in my first year and abruptly retire lol

actually tim I'm only advocating a change in the coaching staff not the FO. Hell we can even keep Jackson aslong as an OC is hired and ray is replaced. He is a great motivator and the locker seems to like him i suppose, if that counts for shit.

Opal312

Keep Hue, fire Horton and the Front Office from hell can go too!

Tour2ma

Now Hue is a major voice in our draft???

Fake news is alive and well...

cdl15

I don't think Horton will go anywhere. He basically was given Haden, 7 rookies, and 3 2nd year guys to scheme with. Nobody woulda had success. The coordinator carousel is worse than the head coaches. It needs to stop

wargograw

@flyingfooldoug said:
Check this out....Other teams actually win games in December. Do you really think they are going to be a NFL juggernaut in a couple of years? They haven't even found one playmaker yet or a way to tackle, pass, kick or run. Procedure penalties up the Ying yang but hey, we got the best coach out there....Man did I ever pick a bad week to quit LSD

Did you read what I wrote? Other teams are either in the playoff hunt or haven't been beat down by all the losses.

Sure I wish this team was playing as well right now as I think it could. But it's not. And that's understandable because it's human nature to take it a bit easy in a situation like this. In fact, they are playing a lot harder than I'd honestly expect at this point in this situation.

wargograw

@cainedesoulis said:
just pointing out that even the most adamant supporters have turned on Hue at this point.

If that's true then why are you having to sell us so hard on it? It's not true whatsoever.

wargograw

@browns52 said:
if anyone on this board thought we'd be winless this yr, i think you are all full of shit...i know 3-13, 4-12 was my prediction, which is still pretty bad...but 0-16, fuck no, i did not see anyone make a winless prediction on this board at the start of this season...and to make it worse...there is no progress being made..not one iota....that is the worst part...

I'm not going to sit here and say I was one of them, but there were PLENTY of people on this board predicting 0-16. Did you guys just black out the entire summer?

wargograw

Caine already admitted, in this thread I believe, that he didn't care about winning football games. He just liked "the hunt for [coaching] talent." He likes change. He likes chaos. Winning games is not one of his concerns whatsoever. So anyone actually giving his arguments any merit either share the same lack of concern for winning, or is wasting their time.

Mudfly

@tour2ma said:

Now Hue is a major voice in our draft???

Fake news is alive and well...

I thought he was the "football" guy...no?

Id expect he had a hand in the consensus, at least as much as anyone else throwing in bits.....Id bet Kessler is Hues guy...

Mudfly

@cainedesoulis said:

i am 100% confident that i could match Jackson's record in my first year and abruptly retire lol

actually tim I'm only advocating a change in the coaching staff not the FO. Hell we can even keep Jackson aslong as an OC is hired and ray is replaced. He is a great motivator and the locker seems to like him i suppose, if that counts for shit.

Im not advocating firing anyone major at this point....waste of time......

But....as I said last year....and again this year.....nothing wrong with tweaking and adjusting an organization....

You dont(and cant) build a quality organization with one giant hire of 40-50 people....there HAS to be adjustment and fine tuning...

I hope Jimmy has learned this......firing everyone is a huge mistake.....and keeping everyone would be the same....

Mudfly

I will say this.....Haslam was not expecting or prepared to go 0-16......

Todays radio discussions focused on that and said what Sashi said this spring.....the "expectation" was 4-5 wins.....

Now, Jimmy is looking around and asking why?....coaches say we dont have enough talent.....FO saying the coaches didnt do enough with the talent...

I know I know....it's all Tony Grossi/Tony Rizzo hearsay.....but, where there's smoke there's fire......and I heard Sashi say 4-5 wins would be a disappointment.....so, we know the BROWNS arent pleased and the owner isnt pleased and the FO who engineered this isnt pleased.....so it cant be going according to plan....otherwise, why would Shashi call 5 wins a disappoinment?

and if the coaches, FO and owner are all disappointed, why are we supposed to be otherwise???

I think Jimmah will do something to show his discontent....what?....who knows,,,,,but I think his ego wont let him do nothing

hoorta

@mudfly said:

I will say this.....Haslam was not expecting or prepared to go 0-16......

Todays radio discussions focused on that and said what Sashi said this spring.....the "expectation" was 4-5 wins.....

Now, Jimmy is looking around and asking why?....coaches say we dont have enough talent.....FO saying the coaches didnt do enough with the talent...

I know I know....it's all Tony Grossi/Tony Rizzo hearsay.....but, where there's smoke there's fire......and I heard Sashi say 4-5 wins would be a disappointment.....so, we know the BROWNS arent pleased and the owner isnt pleased and the FO who engineered this isnt pleased.....so it cant be going according to plan....otherwise, why would Shashi call 5 wins a disappoinment?

and if the coaches, FO and owner are all disappointed, why are we supposed to be otherwise???

I think Jimmah will do something to show his discontent....what?....who knows,,,,,but I think his ego wont let him do nothing

I clearly remember Sashi saying that Mud. You and me called it bullshit from the get-go. Hell what did you expect Sashi? You fire all the scouts, toss their reports in the trash, and let your analytics, and I daresay ego- tell you that you can outsmart everyone else come draft day? You got what you deserved. Pride comes before a fall. There's going to be plenty of finger pointing to go around after the season mercifully comes to a close. Sure, injuries were a factor in the record, but against the Bills, Cleveland looked so disorganized on defense you'd expect seeing that in the first preseason game, not game #14. The run D has been pathetic all year- and we haven't had a ton of injuries on the defensive side either.

From my POV, the FO and coaching staff are equally to blame for this train wreck of a season.

Hope the FO now realizes one stud player trumps a slew of special teams types.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

This place is full of fucking Retards

Mudfly

@hoorta said:

Hope the FO now realizes one stud player trumps a slew of special teams types.

wel'll find out....still gotta get a stud(or 10) to know for sure.....

miktoxic

@wargograw said:

In fact, they are playing a lot harder than I'd honestly expect at this point in this situation.

problem is WAR, that this might be the highest level that these players can play at, which says sooo much about our FO. now they might point fingers at the coaching staff but what will that tell you?

flyingfooldoug

@mudfly said:

I will say this.....Haslam was not expecting or prepared to go 0-16......

Todays radio discussions focused on that and said what Sashi said this spring.....the "expectation" was 4-5 wins.....

Now, Jimmy is looking around and asking why?....coaches say we dont have enough talent.....FO saying the coaches didnt do enough with the talent...

I know I know....it's all Tony Grossi/Tony Rizzo hearsay.....but, where there's smoke there's fire......and I heard Sashi say 4-5 wins would be a disappointment.....so, we know the BROWNS arent pleased and the owner isnt pleased and the FO who engineered this isnt pleased.....so it cant be going according to plan....otherwise, why would Shashi call 5 wins a disappoinment?

and if the coaches, FO and owner are all disappointed, why are we supposed to be otherwise???

I think Jimmah will do something to show his discontent....what?....who knows,,,,,but I think his ego wont let him do nothing

With luck, he fires himself. He is the common thread on all our lousy drafting the past few years. Stosh mines the fringes while jimdee gives him the fudge to pack.

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:

I thought he was the "football" guy...no?

Id expect he had a hand in the consensus, at least as much as anyone else throwing in bits.....Id bet Kessler is Hues guy...

I'm not saying Hue is not involved... just pushing back on the "Hue at the point of our college scouting spear" stance I saw another taking.

Kessler is the shining example of his involvement. His on-camera reaction in our "war room" told us that. I've no doubt he liked and lobbied for the pick, and may have even had a hand in taking him as high as we did. What I doubt is that he brought Kess', or other names, to our FO's attention. It's a matter of roles and time.

In season the number of college games Hue watches, even as a fan, can probably be counted on one hand... and most of those likely came in our Bye-week. I doubt that in-season he even sits in on college scouting sessions. He may be cc'd on monthly or other summary reports that those sessions produce, but more than detailed summaries of individual prospects, I'd expect them to boil up trends emerging in the draft. Trends like at which positions the draft is looking strong, deep and conversely where it looks to be thin, weak.

After the season? First Hue and his staff have to be neck deep in final roster evaluation. This season, with a legit, tag decision to be made, will demand even more time. This will be with our Pro Scouting group and flow into FA evaluations.

Then Hue & Co. have natural roles in several college scouting outings, e.g., Senior Bowl, East-West Shrine, etc. All these are week long beauty pageants complete with interview opportunities. All these also include representatives of our College Scouting department... likely with an Analytical rep or two to boot. Was - rinse - repeat when The Combine and Pro-Days roll around with some adjusting of who goes in the latter cases to obscure, or artificially pump up, our perceived "interest level". I can't see a route for culled names resurfacing or coming to our FO's attention that does not involve one of these trips.

I've little doubt that by the time our final board is set, Hue has watched more tape on prospects than all but the most "dedicated" fans here. His primary focus? Little doubt it's QBs. Secondary? I'd think other offensive skill positions followed by OL. Same tape volume for his "OC", Pep. O-Position coaches? I'm not so sure, but more due to their focus than involvement. D-side? No doubt Hue does some, but seems clear to me Ray would be primary here.

Regardless of the depth of their individual plunges, I think all will have worked off the FO's scouting lists which trim 1000's down to 100's.

Roles... what a concept!

@mudfly said:

I will say this.....Haslam was not expecting or prepared to go 0-16......

Todays radio discussions focused on that and said what Sashi said this spring.....the "expectation" was 4-5 wins.....

Now, Jimmy is looking around and asking why?....coaches say we dont have enough talent.....FO saying the coaches didnt do enough with the talent...

I know I know....it's all Tony Grossi/Tony Rizzo hearsay.....but, where there's smoke there's fire......and I heard Sashi say 4-5 wins would be a disappointment.....so, we know the BROWNS arent pleased and the owner isnt pleased and the FO who engineered this isnt pleased.....so it cant be going according to plan....otherwise, why would Shashi call 5 wins a disappoinment?

and if the coaches, FO and owner are all disappointed, why are we supposed to be otherwise???

I think Jimmah will do something to show his discontent....what?....who knows,,,,,but I think his ego wont let him do nothing

So we're disappointed that we did not win 4 or 5. Certainly would have held the wolves at bay here... wouldn't it? <--- Rhetorical question alert!

Interestingly, I think Jimmah could go all Jedi mind trick on us. Egos can be fed by doing the unexpected... zigging when every pundit, both pro and amateur, says, "He'll zag." Especially when the person has zagged every time in his history.

Displaying personal, professional growth can be ego boosting.