I turned Brown
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....and look what they went it did to our uni's!
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Baltimore moves to Indy
St. Louis moves to Arizona
Los Angeles moves to St. Louis
Cleveland moves to Baltimore
Browns didn't move to Baltimore
Cleveland gets a new franchise
Baltimore got the new franchise.....again these are the Facts. Sorry if you are clueless about them. (and it would be better to use the name of the teams that did actually move....I don't think the earth shook and Los Angeles ended up in the middle of the country....the Rams franchise did move all those times. The Browns franchise never moved at all, ever.
Los Angeles who moved to St. Louis moves back to Los Angeles
...certainly, in hindsight it looks like total madness.
....and look what they went it did to our uni's!
--------------
Baltimore moves to Indy
St. Louis moves to Arizona
Los Angeles moves to St. Louis
Cleveland moves to Baltimore
Browns didn't move to Baltimore
Cleveland gets a new franchise
Baltimore got the new franchise.....again these are the Facts. Sorry if you are clueless about them. (and it would be better to use the name of the teams that did actually move....I don't think the earth shook and Los Angeles ended up in the middle of the country....the Rams franchise did move all those times. The Browns franchise never moved at all, ever.
Los Angeles who moved to St. Louis moves back to Los Angeles
...certainly, in hindsight it looks like total madness.
I used city names for a reason. (you don't get it, I understand that )
And the Browns most certainly DID move to Baltimore. (you must have missed it)
It was later determined that they weren't allowed to keep the nickname of Browns, the colors or tradition.and had to pick new nickname with new colors...because Cleveland was getting a new franchise (with a new plan B expansion draft) and would be using the name Browns with the namesake's past history & tradition.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
You teach me about the Browns and I'll teach you how to break a metphormin 1000mg tablet with one hand. It's quite a feat actually.Unfortunately it seems that about every few months we have to educate people on this....friend or foe.
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....and look what they went it did to our uni's!
--------------
Baltimore moves to Indy
St. Louis moves to Arizona
Los Angeles moves to St. Louis
Cleveland moves to Baltimore
Browns didn't move to Baltimore
Cleveland gets a new franchise
Baltimore got the new franchise.....again these are the Facts. Sorry if you are clueless about them. (and it would be better to use the name of the teams that did actually move....I don't think the earth shook and Los Angeles ended up in the middle of the country....the Rams franchise did move all those times. The Browns franchise never moved at all, ever.
Los Angeles who moved to St. Louis moves back to Los Angeles
...certainly, in hindsight it looks like total madness.
I used city names for a reason. (you don't get it, I understand that )
And the Browns most certainly DID move to Baltimore. (you must have missed it)
It was later determined that they weren't allowed to keep the nickname of Browns, the colors or tradition.and had to pick new nickname with new colors...because Cleveland was getting a new franchise (with a new plan B expansion draft) and would be using the name Browns with the namesake's past history & tradition.
I used city names for a reason. (you don't get it, I understand that )
I get it...you were being an ass.
And the Browns most certainly DID move to Baltimore. (you must have missed it)
NO, they didn't. Put some money on it.
It was later determined that they weren't allowed to keep the nickname of Browns, the colors or tradition.and had to pick new nickname with new colors...because Cleveland was getting a new franchise (with a new plan B expansion draft) and would be using the name Browns with the namesake's past history & tradition.
Except...of course, you are dead wrong...and obstinately stupidly so.
The Browns franchise didn't leave Cleveland. It stayed here. The Ravens were the expansion team.
There was an injunction....and the Browns never left. There was settlement...and the Browns never left.
The only people that agree with me are: The Cleveland Browns, The Baltimore Ravens, the National Football League, the city of Cleveland, the county of Cuyahoga, the State of Ohio, the State of Maryland, the City/County of Baltimore.
And who is it that agrees with you?
Crickets.
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It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
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Browns left. We got an 'expansion team' called the Browns who have sucked ass since. Who gives a fuck what he says,.
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It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
You may have turned Brown but when the league let Art turn his back on Cleveland, I turned my ass to a job in NC The whole thing was a mess. For starters, look at our whole coaching staff at time of Art's Fart.. -
It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
Me and Gip argued with Baltomorons for years over the facts. I got my screen name the Hoorta because of it. You can believe whatever the hell you want to, but it doesn't change the facts one bit. Click on the "in trust" link to find out what that legally means- and don't argue with Gip, he's a lawyer.
You and Orion can disagree with Wiki if you like.
"In 1995, owner Art Modell, who had purchased the Browns in 1961, announced plans to move the team to Baltimore Maryland. After threats of legal action from the city of Cleveland and fans, a compromise was reached in early 1996 that allowed Modell to establish the Baltimore Ravens as a new franchise while retaining the contracts of all Browns personnel. The Browns' intellectual property, including team name, logos, training facility, and history, were kept in trust and the (Browns) franchise was regarded by the NFL as suspended. A new team would be established by 1999 either by expansion or relocation. The Browns were announced as an expansion team in 1998 and resumed play in 1999."
Or maybe the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the NFL'S official record keeper.
"Determined to keep the team in Cleveland, Browns fans and Cleveland city officials orchestrated an unprecedented grass-roots campaign to block the move. The NFL quickly responded and, working with city officials, developed a unique solution that not only provided for a new state-of-the-art stadium, but guaranteed the return of pro football to Cleveland by no later than 1999. Additionally, Art Modell agreed to relinquish the "Browns" name, colors and team history to the new owner of the suspended franchise."
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I understand and Gip set me straight. I learned something today. I was just giving him shit. Peace
But however even wiki says they are an expansion team? So Modell leaves then Cleveland is an expansion team with same uni's.
See I thought the Browns moved and then they changed their name. Actually the moved but didn't have the rights to be called the Browns. I also thought Cleveland gets expansion team and called them the Browns because they missed them. Yep Gip was right.
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It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
Me and Gip argued with Baltomorons for years over the facts. I got my screen name the Hoorta because of it. You can believe whatever the hell you want to, but it doesn't change the facts one bit. Click on the "in trust" link to find out what that legally means- and don't argue with Gip, he's a lawyer.
You and Orion can disagree with Wiki if you like.
"In 1995, owner Art Modell, who had purchased the Browns in 1961, announced plans to move the team to Baltimore Maryland. After threats of legal action from the city of Cleveland and fans, a compromise was reached in early 1996 that allowed Modell to establish the Baltimore Ravens as a new franchise while retaining the contracts of all Browns personnel. The Browns' intellectual property, including team name, logos, training facility, and history, were kept in trust and the (Browns) franchise was regarded by the NFL as suspended. A new team would be established by 1999 either by expansion or relocation. The Browns were announced as an expansion team in 1998 and resumed play in 1999."
Or maybe the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the NFL'S official record keeper.
"Determined to keep the team in Cleveland, Browns fans and Cleveland city officials orchestrated an unprecedented grass-roots campaign to block the move. The NFL quickly responded and, working with city officials, developed a unique solution that not only provided for a new state-of-the-art stadium, but guaranteed the return of pro football to Cleveland by no later than 1999. Additionally, Art Modell agreed to relinquish the "Browns" name, colors and team history to the new owner of the suspended franchise."
and don't argue with Gip, he's a lawyer.I don't care who he thinks he is.
The Browns organization moved to Baltimore and we were given an expansion team. But you can believe that technically a tree is a rock if you want.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I don't care who he thinks he is.
The Browns organization moved to Baltimore and we were given an expansion team. But you can believe that technically a tree is a rock if you want.
That's exactly what I said- but not an expansion franchise. Baltimore is the expansion franchise. Get it? The organization might have moved, but the Browns franchise did not. It was held in trust until Al Lerner ponied up the bucks to buy the rights to the (original) Browns franchise. That meant all the intellectual property, colors and records.
If you still can't see the difference, look no farther than the Indianapolis Colts. Irsay took everything with him along with the moving vans. That meant the horseshoe logo and Johnny Unitas' records. Modell didn't when he pulled out of town, just the players and front office personnel. Jim Brown's records still belong to Cleveland as well as the orange & brown. You might think that's splitting hairs, but legally there's a world of difference. I can't make it any simpler by using the analogy of a McDonald's Restaurant in Cleveland that sat empty for three years until it was reopened with new employees and management- it was still the same damn store.
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What? Never heard of petrified wood?I don't care who he thinks he is.
The Browns organization moved to Baltimore and we were given an expansion team. But you can believe that technically a tree is a rock if you want.
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I understand and Gip set me straight. I learned something today. I was just giving him shit. Peace
But however even wiki says they are an expansion team? So Modell leaves then Cleveland is an expansion team with same uni's.
See I thought the Browns moved and then they changed their name. Actually the moved but didn't have the rights to be called the Browns. I also thought Cleveland gets expansion team and called them the Browns because they missed them. Yep Gip was right.
I understand and Gip set me straight. I learned something today. I was just giving him shit. Peace
But however even wiki says they are an expansion team? So Modell leaves then Cleveland is an expansion team with same uni's.
See I thought the Browns moved and then they changed their name. Actually the moved but didn't have the rights to be called the Browns. I also thought Cleveland gets expansion team and called them the Browns because they missed them. Yep Gip was right.
Explanation about the "expansion" term. The franchise was NOT an expansion franchise....it was the same franchise. However, in order to replenish the on field personell of the franchise...read "players", the NFL held a "distribution draft" of current NFL players, which was essentially the same process that had been held a number of times for new expansion franchises. So, it wasn't really an "expansion draft" but because it was essentially the same process, the term "expansion draft" was basically applied.
(the one big difference between the Browns "expansion draft" and those of the Jags or Panthers is that the NFL vastly limited the number of players available to the Browns compared to those other teams.
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I don't care who he thinks he is.
The Browns organization moved to Baltimore and we were given an expansion team. But you can believe that technically a tree is a rock if you want.
Well, whatever you think you are, you are in fact a fucking dumbass. An organization is not a franchise....it is simply an amalgamation of people. The franchise is the legal entity.
So, again, you think you know more than the two franchises involved, the two cities involved, the two states involved, the two counties involved, and the NFL.
Since you know more than 6 different governmental entities and 3 different corporate entities perhaps you should like run for something.....like for Mayor of Dogpatch (or some other mythical, fictional place).
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What? Never heard of petrified wood?
There you go!
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Gip, prior to the end of the '95 season was Modell, in fact, enjoined from moving the team?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Gip, prior to the end of the '95 season was Modell, in fact, enjoined from moving the team?
Gip, prior to the end of the '95 season was Modell, in fact, enjoined from moving the team?
Gip can correct me on this, but IIRC- what happened was Cleveland's lawyers looked over Modell's stadium lease, and found a "specific performance" clause. Meaning Artie could move to Baltimore, but he was stuck playing his home games in Cleveland until the lease ran out.That's what forced the deal, not any kindness on Artie's part. Whether there was a Cuyahoga court injunction on top of that, don't remember.
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I understand and Gip set me straight. I learned something today. I was just giving him shit. Peace
But however even wiki says they are an expansion team? So Modell leaves then Cleveland is an expansion team with same uni's.
See I thought the Browns moved and then they changed their name. Actually the moved but didn't have the rights to be called the Browns. I also thought Cleveland gets expansion team and called them the Browns because they missed them. Yep Gip was right.
Explanation about the "expansion" term. The franchise was NOT an expansion franchise....it was the same franchise. However, in order to replenish the on field personell of the franchise...read "players", the NFL held a "distribution draft" of current NFL players, which was essentially the same process that had been held a number of times for new expansion franchises. So, it wasn't really an "expansion draft" but because it was essentially the same process, the term "expansion draft" was basically applied.
(the one big difference between the Browns "expansion draft" and those of the Jags or Panthers is that the NFL vastly limited the number of players available to the Browns compared to those other teams.
Explanation about the "expansion" term. The franchise was NOT an expansion franchise....it was the same franchise.
Correct....but yall are debating semantics..... is WAS an expansion "team"....which is what these guys are saying.....so, you're either too dense to get that or are just being a twat....(or both?)
Well, whatever you think you are, you are in fact a fucking dumbass. An organization is not a franchise....it is simply an amalgamation of people. The franchise is the legal entity.
And, there, you've said it......a franchise is just the legal entity.....a TEAM is an amalgamation of people(like an org).....so, by definition, the team was an expansion team, created by conducting an expansion draft.....but the franchise was not an expansion franchise.......and everybody wins....
There you go!
Yep....
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It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
"One said:
It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
Well, they were undefeated......
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It's ok Orion were too obtuse to understand the invisible team that was in Cleveland for three years.
Me and Gip argued with Baltomorons for years over the facts. I got my screen name the Hoorta because of it. You can believe whatever the hell you want to, but it doesn't change the facts one bit. Click on the "in trust" link to find out what that legally means- and don't argue with Gip, he's a lawyer.
You and Orion can disagree with Wiki if you like.
"In 1995, owner Art Modell, who had purchased the Browns in 1961, announced plans to move the team to Baltimore Maryland. After threats of legal action from the city of Cleveland and fans, a compromise was reached in early 1996 that allowed Modell to establish the Baltimore Ravens as a new franchise while retaining the contracts of all Browns personnel. The Browns' intellectual property, including team name, logos, training facility, and history, were kept in trust and the (Browns) franchise was regarded by the NFL as suspended. A new team would be established by 1999 either by expansion or relocation. The Browns were announced as an expansion team in 1998 and resumed play in 1999."
Or maybe the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the NFL'S official record keeper.
"Determined to keep the team in Cleveland, Browns fans and Cleveland city officials orchestrated an unprecedented grass-roots campaign to block the move. The NFL quickly responded and, working with city officials, developed a unique solution that not only provided for a new state-of-the-art stadium, but guaranteed the return of pro football to Cleveland by no later than 1999. Additionally, Art Modell agreed to relinquish the "Browns" name, colors and team history to the new owner of the suspended franchise."
Me and Gip argued with Baltomorons for years over the facts. I got my screen name the Hoorta because of it. You can believe whatever the hell you want to, but it doesn't change the facts one bit. Click on the "in trust" link to find out what that legally means- and don't argue with Gip, he's a lawyer.
You and Orion can disagree with Wiki if you like.
"In 1995, owner Art Modell, who had purchased the Browns in 1961, announced plans to move the team to Baltimore Maryland. After threats of legal action from the city of Cleveland and fans, a compromise was reached in early 1996 that allowed Modell to establish the Baltimore Ravens as a new franchise while retaining the contracts of all Browns personnel. The Browns' intellectual property, including team name, logos, training facility, and history, were kept in trust and the (Browns) franchise was regarded by the NFL as suspended. A new team would be established by 1999 either by expansion or relocation. The Browns were announced as an expansion team in 1998 and resumed play in 1999."
Or maybe the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the NFL'S official record keeper.
"Determined to keep the team in Cleveland, Browns fans and Cleveland city officials orchestrated an unprecedented grass-roots campaign to block the move. The NFL quickly responded and, working with city officials, developed a unique solution that not only provided for a new state-of-the-art stadium, but guaranteed the return of pro football to Cleveland by no later than 1999. Additionally, Art Modell agreed to relinquish the "Browns" name, colors and team history to the new owner of the suspended franchise."
and one thing that I thought very cool,the Browns flag flew at every super bowl they had during are absence
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Explanation about the "expansion" term. The franchise was NOT an expansion franchise....it was the same franchise.
Correct....but yall are debating semantics..... is WAS an expansion "team"....which is what these guys are saying.....so, you're either too dense to get that or are just being a twat....(or both?)
Well, whatever you think you are, you are in fact a fucking dumbass. An organization is not a franchise....it is simply an amalgamation of people. The franchise is the legal entity.
And, there, you've said it......a franchise is just the legal entity.....a TEAM is an amalgamation of people(like an org).....so, by definition, the team was an expansion team, created by conducting an expansion draft.....but the franchise was not an expansion franchise.......and everybody wins....
There you go!
Yep....
And, there, you've said it......a franchise is just the legal entity.....a TEAM is an amalgamation of people(like an org).....so, by definition, the team was an expansion team, created by conducting an expansion draft.....but the franchise was not an expansion franchise.......and everybody wins....
Mud, that's what we've been saying all along, DUH! Yeah, it's sort of a technicality- but it's the right one. Nothing pisses me off more when people erroneously say the Baltimore Ravens are the old Browns. They are not, and never were. Some former Browns players played for the Ravens- Matt Stover was the last (original) holdover. Same difference 2016 style- Terrance West played for the Browns- and now he plays for the Ravens.
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