Camp Trubisky
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That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.
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If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?
I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
It's the Browns... at this point that phrase isn't accurate.
That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.
No disagreement. I want no part of Kizer early.
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That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.
That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.
I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....
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That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.
I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....
I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....
That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....
That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.
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Not sure why but I'm getting very much a 'Teddy Twatwater' vibe from Deshaun Watson. Pre-season number one, fell down the boards due to an apparently slightly underwhelming season (where Watson's basically on exactly the same numbers as the year before) and people worried about his size at 'only' 6'2" and 205lbs.
Maybe I'm just squinting a bit too much but the parallels looks obvious to me at least.
I want better. Trubisky is more Derek Carr than Bridgewater. And if you were redrafting right now....Derek Carr would be in like the top 2-3 players taken.
I want better. Trubisky is more Derek Carr than Bridgewater. And if you were redrafting right now....Derek Carr would be in like the top 2-3 players taken.
Carr goes number one, no doubt about it.
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I want better. Trubisky is more Derek Carr than Bridgewater. And if you were redrafting right now....Derek Carr would be in like the top 2-3 players taken.
Carr goes number one, no doubt about it.
Carr goes number one, no doubt about it.
And I'm guessing Teddy doesn't fall past the jags. I forget who was picking second that year, we were fourth (and take Khalil Mack, OBJ or Aaron Donald probably).
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The more folks are watching Trubisky, and the more they think he could be pro-ready something special,
and you need a qb, of course you draft him high. There's that huge a demand for qb's who "get it".
..can see the field, have the arm, football iq, pocket presence, tough/durable...
It's like if you could go back in time...what round would you draft Joe Montana in? Brady? etc etc Drew Brees,
all 6', 209 lbs of him, sent at the end of the second round.
I would love to get Trubisky in the second round, or even the second pick of the first.
but so far, I think I'd just pick him at the top of round one - seems he could really be special. Still early though.
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I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....
That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
Joe Montana & Joe Thiesman are duly noted for ND. Granted, might be illogical, but just call it "The Curse of the Irish." And I'm basing my dislike of Kizer on what I've seen, not just some whim.
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That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.
Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.
It makes sense if you have an entrenched coach or similar offensive system or somehow have maintained the same positional coach throughout multiple tenures.
But Clausen and Kizer are two different QB's from two different coaching systems and two different offenses. I agree though, I wouldn't want Kizer any higher than late second.
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If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?
I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
ND has been a hot mess in 2016. The Irish cannot run and they cannot stop the run. Yet statistically Kizer has held up.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Watched 7 of Kiser's games:
Pros: strong arm, hits intermediate routes with zip, athletic, good size
Cons: holds onto the ball too long, has a slow throwing motion, no touch-especially on the deep ball, stares down 1 receiver, seems to trust his legs more than his arm, inconsistent accuracy
Overall, I do NOT see 1st round talent with Kiser. Just what I see. He is a read-option QB and does less with a better o-line than Turbisky. I see a developmental 2nd-4rd round guy who could become a starter with a few years sitting behind a vet QB- maybe Arizona or New Orleans.
#Justsayin' -
ND has been a hot mess in 2016. The Irish cannot run and they cannot stop the run. Yet statistically Kizer has held up.
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Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
Not to worry. Mel Kiper and the Gang will have plenty of guys elevated far beyond their usefulness.
WSS
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Watched 7 of Kiser's games:
Pros: strong arm, hits intermediate routes with zip, athletic, good size
Cons: holds onto the ball too long, has a slow throwing motion, no touch-especially on the deep ball, stares down 1 receiver, seems to trust his legs more than his arm, inconsistent accuracy
Overall, I do NOT see 1st round talent with Kiser. Just what I see. He is a read-option QB and does less with a better o-line than Turbisky. I see a developmental 2nd-4rd round guy who could become a starter with a few years sitting behind a vet QB- maybe Arizona or New Orleans.
Watched 7 of Kiser's games:
Which games from what year?
Wasn't that Texas Tech for like....a bagillion years? And Wazzou now?
Dunno... also unknown (or at least undected) is your point...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
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What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
Ah... got it...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
No... no source. Just discounting your reporting...
As for QB need... absolutely it's a need. I do not see franchise level skill and dependability in a single QB on our sideline.
I arrived at this Board touting, "You always have to be looking for your next QB," and I've parleyed that approach into a few winning choices over the years.
But I have never let "need" blind me to the reality of the options out there... no matter how great the need may appear to be because of its magnification thru the prism of the "elevated" value/importance of the position. And that's what people are now doing... as usual. What is different is how openly they are doing it.
I may yet end up there with them on Mitchy-poo... but there has to be a lot of great tape on that road not yet traveled.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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