Thinking about the draft, first two picks...arguing with myself...

Tour2ma

@poeticg said:

I would then trade the farm to San Francisco to acquire their #2 overall pick.

From there, who knows? Who cares at that point, it's a crapshoot in the later rounds. You make up the lost selections in the draft in free agency and with the Browns at around 100 millions dollars of free cap space next season it's time for some young seasoned difference makers.

Crapshoot? After you "trade the farm" how do you have the "capital" to even get in the game? At a minimum you can forget Day 2... the place the value picks are found.

Where did the $100mm in cap space figure come from? Per OverTheCap it's $65mm and you just spent $10-11mm on your first two picks so you've $55mm left.

But before you go shopping for outside FAs... who among our 22 FAs do you want to retain? Here's a sampling of those included in the 22...

Cooper, Paea, Pryor, Paztor.... Colquitt, Gordon, Collins, Taylor... Poyer, Meder, Crow, Wynn...

With the exception of Cooper, and we'll start seeing Cooper Sunday, all have been contributors in our recent past whose retention should be desirable.

I get where you are coming from, but your approach does not stand up under scrutiny... IMO...

The Gipper

@orion said:

I think we'll pick the best QB available with the #1 pick in the draft.

I've said before that our team has become unwatchable.

Unless you are a die-hard Browns fan (which people on message boards are)...or a fan of the other team....you will NOT be leaving your TV dial on a Browns game.

We have a lot of empty seats showing up at games.

We have a lot of the opponents jerseys filling the better seats in the stadium.....looks bad on TV (not that anyone is watching).

We lose every game. Our stats are at the bottom of the league in most categories.

There really is NO ONE on our team to watch.

Haslam is going to want someone to be a reason for watching his team. That type of person is a QB. A TOP OF THE DRAFT QB.

......of course, I could be wrong........but as I type, this is what I truly believe will be the case. (based on current conditions)

And...of course, the local product ..and #1 rated QB prospect will add to the reason for people to watch this team.

TexasAg1969

@the-gipper said:
And...of course, the local product ..and #1 rated QB prospect will add to the reason for people to watch this team.

Not while he's playing from his hospital bed.

hoorta

@texasag1969 said:

Not while he's playing from his hospital bed.

It's why were drafting Elflin at center, and I wouldn't even mind a trade down in the first with the Eagle's pick to get an extra second rounder in the process. Right now Walter Football has him going #62 to the Patriots. Equals (projection) us having #1 overall, a low first rounder, and three in the second. Interested Ag?

PoeticG

What picks would they be giving us next year? Another 2nd or a late first?

Orion

@texasag1969 said:

Not while he's playing from his hospital bed.

But if we pick QB with #1 overall.....we still have the Eagles 1st rounder.......and 2 second rounders......and the first pick in the 3rd round.

And in theory we'll get Bitonio back, and Greco...and that center that played fairly well for a couple of games before getting hurt and going on IR.

And if we wind up with the #1 pick....and decide that we want the QB....then we can go into free agency knowing that.

The wild card is, of course, our Harvard Geek Squad. What will their slide rule Ouija board tell them to do with our #1 overall pick?????

hoorta

@poeticg said:
What picks would they be giving us next year? Another 2nd or a late first?

I'd want another second (or a first next year) and a late first. Totally speculative on how far we'd have to move down.

Tour2ma

@hoorta said:
I'd want another second (or a first next year) and a late first. Totally speculative on how far we'd have to move down.

Per the old chart, the one you want to use when trading down, you should get that deal trading from #12 down to #20 or 21.

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

Per the old chart, the one you want to use when trading down, you should get that deal trading from #12 down to #20 or 21.

LOL, can we say #22? That pick is cursed.

Taco918

@calfoxwc said:

ha. You mean Brady Gustafson? He's an amazing kid....a late round project.

a poor man's Kosar, without the brilliance in reading defenses....

http://www.qbmecca.com/brady-gustafson-not-next-fcs-star-quarterback/

or, more likely, you mean Mason Rudolph... he's very interesting, but not pro ready....some talk

about him getting into the first round... he isn't ready either...

https://withthefirstpick.com/2016/08/16/2017-nfl-draft-oklahoma-state-mason-rudolph-scouting-report/

Knock the Rudolph shit out. I need him back in Stillwater next year.

I've been doing this in every thread and will continue to do so until he decides to come back. Until then, I need everyone to do me a solid and keep his name out your mouths.

-Thanks from every OSU (the real one) grad.

calfoxwc

sorry, I'll fix it immediately.

I love the idea of Elflein being a Cleveland Brown. If he would just not be

such a terrific player, he could fall to the second round. I'm interested

in Mr. Hoorta's idea about trading down with that second first round pick.

A third pick in the second round could be priceless. and it should still net us

Elfie.

Tour2ma

@taco918 said:
Thanks from every OSU (the real one) grad.

Only south of THE Mason-Dixon...

ElkDawg

As long as we draft Mahomes ll with our first pick, I'm fine taking a qb with our first pick.

Browns1216

for the sake of argument, let's say Hue Jackson is still high on Kessler/RG3. I think they would go Garrett with the #1 overall and use the Eagles pick on Elflein, I'd be surpised if Elflein was still available in the 2nd round. I'd feel sorry for any QB playing behind this O-line but as others have mentioned, having Bitonio back will be a big plus for next season assuming he comes back in top form. The O-line lacks depth so I hope they address it either through the draft or through free agency this offseason, an RB or TE that can block would be a bonus.

I also like Peppers to help our secondary but pass rush and o-line need to be straightened out first. Of course, no one knows what this front office will do, maybe analytics will tell them to draft a kicker with the #1 overall pick. Also need to see how RG3 does in the last few games of the season (assuming he lasts more than a quarter in his first game back) to see how high a value this front office will place on drafting a QB. I'm not expecting any miracles but who knows? Maybe he'll light it up and the Browns will go 4-12 or at least win enough games to get out of the #1 spot.

hoorta

@elkdawg said:
As long as we draft Mahomes ll with our first pick, I'm fine taking a qb with our first pick.

I've seen a bit of Mahomes, highly mobile, great arm. Probably better in those respects than Trubiski, but in a conference that doesn't play defense. Has a nice fastball, but what about touch? LOL scrambles better than Johnny Football. BTW, looking at his stats he was chucking it up there an average of 49 times- per game.

Good size 6'3" 230. But a junior, he doesn't have to declare.

http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/10/23/texas-tech-qb-pat-mahomes-breaks-fbs-record-with-819-total-yards-vs-oklahoma/

TexasAg1969

Until he declares he won't be rated by many boards. But since his HC is the same former OC for JFF, we all know the conversion to NFL QB will take time. What the hell it would earn us higher picks in the meantime.

jiggins7919

Mahomes will probably declare due to the pitiful state of the QB class. Might not have a chance to go as high next year, especially if he blows it out at combine or pro day.

I think we need to get prepared for NOT having the number 1 pick this year. The 49's completely choked against the lowly Bears, and somehow managed to get their asses blown off by Matt Barkely. As I'm sure you all know, if the Browns SOMEHOW manage to win a game, we will no longer have the first pick due to strength of schedule. Now, us winning a game seems impossible, but statistically speaking, we're more likely to win one of these next four than to lose them all.

So, does having the second pick change ANYTHING? Well, anything but us taking Myles Garrett? The 49's are in desperate need of a QB, but I don't think they could pass up on Garrett, and the more realistic version in my weird head has them trading the pick to somebody who wants Garrett desperately.

So, Garrett is gone, and we have the second pick. Desmond Bryant is no spring chicken, and I could see us cutting ties with him and then drafting Jonathan Allen. I believe they both can play the same "technique", and Allen is a wildly productive player. Draft Allen, and then see how the draft plays out? If Mitch makes it past the first 7 or 8...try and trade up for him?

The Gipper

@texasag1969 said:

Not while he's playing from his hospital bed.

That will get fixed. JT and Bito back. A new OC. Greco. Maybe a new RT (Ramczyk?). I have confidence. Why? I don't know.

hoorta

@jiggins7919 said:

Mahomes will probably declare due to the pitiful state of the QB class. Might not have a chance to go as high next year, especially if he blows it out at combine or pro day.

I think we need to get prepared for NOT having the number 1 pick this year. The 49's completely choked against the lowly Bears, and somehow managed to get their asses blown off by Matt Barkely. As I'm sure you all know, if the Browns SOMEHOW manage to win a game, we will no longer have the first pick due to strength of schedule. Now, us winning a game seems impossible, but statistically speaking, we're more likely to win one of these next four than to lose them all.

So, does having the second pick change ANYTHING? Well, anything but us taking Myles Garrett? The 49's are in desperate need of a QB, but I don't think they could pass up on Garrett, and the more realistic version in my weird head has them trading the pick to somebody who wants Garrett desperately.

So, Garrett is gone, and we have the second pick. Desmond Bryant is no spring chicken, and I could see us cutting ties with him and then drafting Jonathan Allen. I believe they both can play the same "technique", and Allen is a wildly productive player. Draft Allen, and then see how the draft plays out? If Mitch makes it past the first 7 or 8...try and trade up for him?

OK, let's say that scenario plays out 49ers draft #1, we draft #2. Unless San Fran views Garrett as another Reggie White or Bruce Smith- they're taking a QB, unless they get a sell the ranch deal from another team. Kap played so crappy against the Bears he got benched, and seriously? Blaine Gabbert? We could take Garrett or Allen- but it will depend on how R Glass plays the last couple of games- assuming he plays at all. The thought has crossed my mind how much the Niners would want to extract from the Browns to swap places. (we won't- we either get the top qb or defender assuming we don't trade down again) Next in line, the two win Jags are likely to lose out, but they have Bortles. After that, you can bet the Bears and Jets will be interested in a QB, but will they want to move up? It's a long way down to the next team that might be in the mood to draft a qb in the first round.

PS- my update on strength of schedule- Browns opponents are now 11 wins tougher than the 49ers. It's just about a virtual lock should we tie with wins- San Francisco will pick first. Please SF- beat the Jets this week.

jiggins7919

Yeah, unless the 49's are going to try the almost impossible route of "starting QB through free agency", it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to imagine them NOT taking a QB. I think the ONLY way they don't take a QB at #1 (or #2), is if they trade back a couple picks with a team that has a QB, but desperately wants somebody slotted to go very high. So maybe the Panthers want to trade with them, and they get draft picks and then take Watson...something like that. I could definitely see Chip Kelly falling in love with Watson.

But yeah...you're right. Unless they have a guy targeted in the second round, it's very hard to imagine them not going QB with their first pick. I think our biggest hope is that they covet Kizer over Mitch. I don't see it happening, nor has Kizer committed to the draft, but it's possible. The QB rankings ALWAYS change during the next 4-5 months. There are no Browns fans that expect any of our QB's to play well during these last weeks. Hue Jackson and our new "analytics" front office had one draft and one round of free agency to figure the QB situation out, and by all accounts, they have failed. They get it right in 2017, or else they might all be sent packing. Fair or not fair.