Greg Williams Hired
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One point to add. At least we have a viable name to put the title Interim Head Coach in front of his name. Been awhile since we've done that so we're due. And to note after watching the first weekend of playoffs. We are fucking light years and a few parsecs away from playoff caliber team. It'll be more realistic for Craftsman to come out with a industrial line of shop vacs and call them the Browns than to think that we're gonna see winning football here in the next 5 years. I wish otherwise but like the Amish folk say...Wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which one fills up first
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So this has to have us leaning to Garrett over Allen, presumably? Assuming we don't go QB.
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So this has to have us leaning to Garrett over Allen, presumably? Assuming we don't go QB.
So this has to have us leaning to Garrett over Allen, presumably? Assuming we don't go QB.
Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland.
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Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland.
I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE.
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Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland.
I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE.
I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE.
Whichever way it goes, other than trading out of the top 3, it will be a very good thing for the Browns to take either one of them. Teams that get either one will be instantly far better defenses. Thank goodness for Sunday Ticket so I can record both to see how they progress next year. Of course whichever one the Browns DON'T take will be instantly the far better player according to the BrownsBoard as the season goes along.
Edit: Here's a random thought. Want to be instantly really scary? Trade down to SF so they get the QB and then trade up with Chicago to get #3 as well. Then we have them both and still some ammunition left in the draft. Where is Sonny when we need him?
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@ghoolie said:
You are a fucking idiot. Horton gave Hue the defense Hue asked for. Assistants are coffee fetchers. he defense is on Hue.
NO DIFFERENCE IN 2017.
GHOOLIE GUARANTEE
Your absolutely right Horton was completely on Hue. This DC is a pure FO decision. Williams has more HC experience than Hue. And if the team should falter he will replace hue at the bye... That's why we only looked at DC's with HC experience... Williams is not Hue's "Type" of coach anyway.
This DC is a pure FO decision.
The facts do not support this statement. Hue pretty much came out and said it was his decision (from this article
3. Horton heard a Hue: In announcing the coordinator change, coach Hue Jackson would not admit that he was choosing Williams’ renowned 4-3 scheme over Horton’s 3-4. “His system gives us a chance, and what he has done is adapt many different schemes that he has been a part of and that he knows to the talent that is there,” Jackson said. “He is going to bring us the type of defense that I am looking for as we move forward here.” Jackson called Williams “one of the better coordinators” in the NFL. And I thought these comments were telling: “I need growth over there as fast as I can get it. I truly believe in his track record and what he has done. Like I said, this wasn’t an easy decision. I agonized over this probably more than anybody because it does, it does hurt some people, but when I look at it at the end of the day, I have to do what I think is right to get us to where we need to be. I think Gregg is that guy.”
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That said were we to retain Collins and draft Foster I think our starting Collins-Kirksey-Foster-Orchard feels like a pretty good set.
On the other hand if we only need three? Collins - ??? - Kirksey ? What's your three?
Im not sold on Collins. Either that he wants to even be here or that he's really even that good. If Horton hadn't been fired and we stayed in the 3-4 i have zero issue saying I would not want to retain Collins as one of our OLB'ers. Just because he'd be better than the tripe we had this year at OLB'er doesn't mean shit. I'd rather draft and convert Garett than keep Collins as the starting OLB'er.
But now that we're switching to a blitz heavy 4-3, now maybe Collins makes more sense. He's "way" better at blitzing than he is coming up to the line. He's awful at the point which 3-4 OLB'ers cannot be. But as a 4-3 OLB'er he'd mostly be going up against TE's and FB's trying to hold the edge. I'm ok with that. But i saw a few tackles this year that slapped him around like a prison ho.
So right now my LB'er rotation would be Davis, Kirksey and Collins. With Collins being that 3rd roaming LB'er that you don't know if he's blitzing or not. If it were my defense Orchard is rotational depth at DE. I"d immediately tell him to put some solid mass on to get his weight up a bit, but not too much. He'd be one of those guys that against certain teams you use him as speed rush and firezoning DE. I still def want the mules like OG, Nas and hopefully Allen...to do the lions share of the heavy lifting during the season. But Orchard could be put in as a sub in certian games and maybe an outright starter in others to give one of the other guys a rest. As a 4-3 olb'er though....maybe in short yardage/goal line. That guy you can put in coverage in the short field near the goal line or bring up to the line to make a 5 man front depending on what the read is. Orch should give Wiliams some interesting ideas.
Im not sold on Collins.
But now that we're switching to a blitz heavy 4-3, now maybe Collins makes more sense. He's "way" better at blitzing than he is coming up to the line. He's awful at the point which 3-4 OLB'ers cannot be. But as a 4-3 OLB'er he'd mostly be going up against TE's and FB's trying to hold the edge. I'm ok with that. But i saw a few tackles this year that slapped him around like a prison ho.
So right now my LB'er rotation would be Davis, Kirksey and Collins.
Kirksey MLB and Davis OLB? Why? And why not vice versa? Also any consideration of Collins at MLB? Thoughts on Foster at MLB vs. half of an ILB pairing?
A pass rushing OLB would seem better suited to the 3-4 to my mind. And I disagree on Collins vs. the run. I've seen him stack and set the edge multiple times.
That said I'm not completely sold on Collins either. I've seen some of the free-lancing that Bill B. leaked was in part the rationale for his fire-sale... mostly in pass coverage. I think it was the Cinci game where he was clearly supposed to pick up Eifert coming across the field and did so only to fall off him in favor of a releasing RB that two DBs were already bracketing. Of course Eifert ended up with a mid-teen-ish yard reception.
Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland.
I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE.
First, at 6'3 291 Allen ain't all that undersized for DT.
Second, interesting attempt to quantify Allan/Garrett in the two schemes and pretty well nailed IMO with one exception... I see Allen as 10/10 in the 3-4 DE role... the guy screams "prototype" at that position.
The facts do not support this statement. Hue pretty much came out and said it was his decision (from this article
Bingo-mundo... but CDS never supported his original statement.
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I wonder if SD would want that first pick?
I wonder if SD would want that first pick?
I think everyone would want the first pick....but doubt they are willing to trade what we should be asking for. And who would you have them taking at #1?
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Williams runs a 4-3, but he is also known to adjust his scheme to the player's strengths and weaknesses. I've read it over and over. That being said, I think this points towards bringing Garrett to Cleveland. Anything can happen of course, but it would make sense. Ogbah has been doing better with his hand in the dirt, and Garrett is obviously a 4-3 DE (but could probably do anything). I'm a little concerned about reading how complicated Williams' scheme can be, but I also read that Williams has a documented history of making things better quickly.
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Garret - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah
Kirksey - Davis - Collins
Nassib and Orchard as Super Subs that you can rush from anywhere.
Now get this guy some safeties.
Z
Zombo said:
Garret - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah
Kirksey - Davis - Collins
In a 4-3, Collins is the MLB and nothing else. He's not an OLB, and never will be. When Davis is playing, only bad things will happen. Davis should only get PT in the goalline 5-4 and ST.
Kirksey/Collins as your nickel LB pair, draft the other starter. Orchard isn't it.
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Zombo said:
Garret - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah
Kirksey - Davis - Collins
In a 4-3, Collins is the MLB and nothing else. He's not an OLB, and never will be. When Davis is playing, only bad things will happen. Davis should only get PT in the goalline 5-4 and ST.
Kirksey/Collins as your nickel LB pair, draft the other starter. Orchard isn't it.
In a 4-3, Collins is the MLB and nothing else. He's not an OLB, and never will be. When Davis is playing, only bad things will happen. Davis should only get PT in the goalline 5-4 and ST.
Kirksey/Collins as your nickel LB pair, draft the other starter. Orchard isn't it.
Ya, that's fine with Collins in the middle. I just want the best players on the field, and Davis and Orchard are in the mix until you replace them with better players.
Collins and Kirksey are the two dudes that don't come off the field.
Zombo
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If we're actually going with The Best players, D Bryant is included in there far above Orchard or Davis
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If we're actually going with The Best players, D Bryant is included in there far above Orchard or Davis
If we're actually going with The Best players, D Bryant is included in there far above Orchard or Davis
We'll see if he's back. I see they redid his contract. He's 30 YO coming off a pec injury with one year left, guess we'll see if Williams wants him or not. If we're drafting Garrett, we've go Garrett, Ogbah and Nassib as DEs, so he could be gone.
Zombo
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If we're actually going with The Best players, D Bryant is included in there far above Orchard or Davis
We'll see if he's back. I see they redid his contract. He's 30 YO coming off a pec injury with one year left, guess we'll see if Williams wants him or not. If we're drafting Garrett, we've go Garrett, Ogbah and Nassib as DEs, so he could be gone.
Zombo
Zombo said:
If we're drafting Garrett, we've go Garrett, Ogbah and Nassib as DEs, so he could be gone.
Zombo
1) Bryant would be a DT in a 4-3, as he was in Oakland
2) Orchard was a 4-3 DE in college so throw him in there too.
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Zombo said:
If we're drafting Garrett, we've go Garrett, Ogbah and Nassib as DEs, so he could be gone.
Zombo
1) Bryant would be a DT in a 4-3, as he was in Oakland
2) Orchard was a 4-3 DE in college so throw him in there too.
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Zombo said:
I had Orchard in there.
If Bryant stays and plays DT, imagine he is a rotational guy at best.
Zombo
Without drafting/signing another guy, I'd think he gets the majority of the snaps if healthy. I could see Shelton being the guy who comes out more often with Meder coming in on passing downs. Honestly not a bad 3 guy rotation.
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Just heard an interesting stat. Last year the Rams' defense played a typical 4-3 defense in about 17% of their snaps. In other words, they were in nickel and dime packages almost ALL of the time. Just food for thought. That tells me we definitely need some defensive backfield help.
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