QB Questions
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Or, he knew his QB Marquise Williams was playing like a guy on his way to going 8-0 in the ACC and 11-3 overall in 2015 before Trubisky went 8-5 in 2016. This is why Mike Mayock asks why it's going to be easier for him to turn an NFL team like Cleveland/SF around? It's a legit line of thinking especially for the #1, #2 or even #12 overall pick. He seems like he would be a much better choice for us at #33 overall. A lot of the perceived gotta haves on defense could go before #12 and it might open my mind up a little more to him there. I'm just not there yet. I wouldn't consider Watson that high - but I wouldn't hate it if we drafted him at #33. I actually think #33 overall is a much more appropriate spot for both Trubisky and Watson; but the limited QB supply for a big demand probably means 2 teams reach for these guys. I just hope we're not one of them at this time. - Flugel
Flugs....it is truly a waste of time to think that the Browns could get MT anywhere but at #1. It really is. There are too many QB needy teams: 5-6 of the teams that draft in the Top Ten need one. The Top 3 could easily be gone by the #10 pick. Nope, if we are going to get a QB....a top rated one, then it has to be at #1.
Beyond that, we would have to likely go down to round 3 again. I don't want another Kessler/McCoy/Frye.
Sure, we could strike gold and get a Russell Wilson...but that is likely fool's gold for us. Do you think that Brad Kaaya will be the second coming of Russell Wilson?
Nope, if you don't get a guy at #1 overall, I think we can forget it.
Or, he knew his QB Marquise Williams was playing like a guy on his way to going 8-0 in the ACC and 11-3 overall in 2015 before Trubisky went 8-5 in 2016. This is why Mike Mayock asks why it's going to be easier for him to turn an NFL team like Cleveland/SF around? It's a legit line of thinking especially for the #1, #2 or even #12 overall pick. He seems like he would be a much better choice for us at #33 overall. A lot of the perceived gotta haves on defense could go before #12 and it might open my mind up a little more to him there. I'm just not there yet. I wouldn't consider Watson that high - but I wouldn't hate it if we drafted him at #33. I actually think #33 overall is a much more appropriate spot for both Trubisky and Watson; but the limited QB supply for a big demand probably means 2 teams reach for these guys. I just hope we're not one of them at this time. - Flugel
Flugs....it is truly a waste of time to think that the Browns could get MT anywhere but at #1. It really is. There are too many QB needy teams: 5-6 of the teams that draft in the Top Ten need one. The Top 3 could easily be gone by the #10 pick. Nope, if we are going to get a QB....a top rated one, then it has to be at #1.
Beyond that, we would have to likely go down to round 3 again. I don't want another Kessler/McCoy/Frye.
Sure, we could strike gold and get a Russell Wilson...but that is likely fool's gold for us. Do you think that Brad Kaaya will be the second coming of Russell Wilson?
Nope, if you don't get a guy at #1 overall, I think we can forget it.
I agree with ya Gip. problem is- the idea of Garrett @ #1 is growing on me- and you know how I feel about Mitch. I can only hope one of those qb needy teams is so enamored about Garropolo they're willing to blow one of their top picks on him. LOL, would Bill be willing to trade his supposed stud backup to the Jets?
If we're going high on a qb, my POV it's Trubisky or nobody. Watson and Kizer don't cut it for me.
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Or, he knew his QB Marquise Williams was playing like a guy on his way to going 8-0 in the ACC and 11-3 overall in 2015 before Trubisky went 8-5 in 2016. This is why Mike Mayock asks why it's going to be easier for him to turn an NFL team like Cleveland/SF around? It's a legit line of thinking especially for the #1, #2 or even #12 overall pick. He seems like he would be a much better choice for us at #33 overall. A lot of the perceived gotta haves on defense could go before #12 and it might open my mind up a little more to him there. I'm just not there yet. I wouldn't consider Watson that high - but I wouldn't hate it if we drafted him at #33. I actually think #33 overall is a much more appropriate spot for both Trubisky and Watson; but the limited QB supply for a big demand probably means 2 teams reach for these guys. I just hope we're not one of them at this time. - Flugel
Flugs....it is truly a waste of time to think that the Browns could get MT anywhere but at #1. It really is. There are too many QB needy teams: 5-6 of the teams that draft in the Top Ten need one. The Top 3 could easily be gone by the #10 pick. Nope, if we are going to get a QB....a top rated one, then it has to be at #1.
Beyond that, we would have to likely go down to round 3 again. I don't want another Kessler/McCoy/Frye.
Sure, we could strike gold and get a Russell Wilson...but that is likely fool's gold for us. Do you think that Brad Kaaya will be the second coming of Russell Wilson?
Nope, if you don't get a guy at #1 overall, I think we can forget it.
I agree with ya Gip. problem is- the idea of Garrett @ #1 is growing on me- and you know how I feel about Mitch. I can only hope one of those qb needy teams is so enamored about Garropolo they're willing to blow one of their top picks on him. LOL, would Bill be willing to trade his supposed stud backup to the Jets?
If we're going high on a qb, my POV it's Trubisky or nobody. Watson and Kizer don't cut it for me.
I agree with ya Gip. problem is- the idea of Garrett @ #1 is growing on me- and you know how I feel about Mitch. I can only hope one of those qb needy teams is so enamored about Garropolo they're willing to blow one of their top picks on him. LOL, would Bill be willing to trade his supposed stud backup to the Jets?
If we're going high on a qb, my POV it's Trubisky or nobody. Watson and Kizer don't cut it for me.
Larry, your Jimmy the Greek hunch might not be that far off. Keep in mind, JG played his college ball in Illinois so he might have more of an intrigue for Chicago than the cup of coffee in Cleveland that might include adding his name to the t-shirt of Rent-a-wrecks.
It's conceivable this FO/staff might like Trubisky especially if a lot of the defensive gotta haves get picked before #12. If Howard gets picked by then, I might end up being a lot more open/excited about him than I seem to be today. We've messed up with QBs so much - it's tough for me to get excited about any of them in round 1. Things could change that by the time we're on the clock at #12 especially if OJ Howard gets picked before that.
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I agree with ya Gip. problem is- the idea of Garrett @ #1 is growing on me- and you know how I feel about Mitch. I can only hope one of those qb needy teams is so enamored about Garropolo they're willing to blow one of their top picks on him. LOL, would Bill be willing to trade his supposed stud backup to the Jets?
If we're going high on a qb, my POV it's Trubisky or nobody. Watson and Kizer don't cut it for me.
Larry, your Jimmy the Greek hunch might not be that far off. Keep in mind, JG played his college ball in Illinois so he might have more of an intrigue for Chicago than the cup of coffee in Cleveland that might include adding his name to the t-shirt of Rent-a-wrecks.
It's conceivable this FO/staff might like Trubisky especially if a lot of the defensive gotta haves get picked before #12. If Howard gets picked by then, I might end up being a lot more open/excited about him than I seem to be today. We've messed up with QBs so much - it's tough for me to get excited about any of them in round 1. Things could change that by the time we're on the clock at #12 especially if OJ Howard gets picked before that.
Larry, your Jimmy the Greek hunch might not be that far off. Keep in mind, JG played his college ball in Illinois so he might have more of an intrigue for Chicago than the cup of coffee in Cleveland that might include adding his name to the t-shirt of Rent-a-wrecks.
It's conceivable this FO/staff might like Trubisky especially if a lot of the defensive gotta haves get picked before #12. If Howard gets picked by then, I might end up being a lot more open/excited about him than I seem to be today. We've messed up with QBs so much - it's tough for me to get excited about any of them in round 1. Things could change that by the time we're on the clock at #12 especially if OJ Howard gets picked before that.
Flugs, if Trubisky lasts until 12, then you gotta come up to where I would have add you to the list with Stan and Z who I would have to buy a pitcher of Margaritas and a Mexican dinner.
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And we can't disagree with his opinion? I'd be happy as a pig in mud if Mitch slid to #12. Only complaint- lack of experience? In other words, he looked pretty good this year- but.
But, the Head Coach who watched him practice every single day found enough weaknesses to start Marquise Williams over him for 2 years. That being the case, we could only watch him start twice throughout his entire scholarship. These were both losses to NC State and Stanford. I think this validates a solid reason why a well respected Draft Analyst like Mike Mayock brings it up in a world of how is he going to be the answer to all some bad NFL team's prayers? Is it really only a "lack of experience" more so than the reasons why there was a lack of experience?
I may be wrong here and it wouldn't be the first time; but I can't get this out of my dome either. In a world where a prospect probably knows his limitations best, why was Trubisky so reluctant to challenge Barrett at Ohio State? Trubisky chose NC instead so he could eventually start 1 year in the ACC vrs his own perception he couldn't ever beat out Barrett. Wasn't Williams a watered down version of Barrett? I always considered great QBs to be fierce competitors to the extent he feels like beating out Barrett would be no problem (especially if he wants the team holding the 1st overall pick to seriously consider him). Look at how much better Ohio State looked the first 3 times Cardale Jones replaced Barrett back when OSU had a great Offensive Coordinator. That could have been Trubisky if he believed in himself. Trubisky has red flags pertinent to upper 1st round consideration; and those capable of getting past the local boy hero thing can see them.
"Mitch could have started all three years he was here. For reasons outside his control, he didn't." - K. Heckendorf, UNC QB Coach.But, the Head Coach who watched him practice every single day found enough weaknesses to start Marquise Williams over him for 2 years. That being the case, we could only watch him start twice throughout his entire scholarship. These were both losses to NC State and Stanford. I think this validates a solid reason why a well respected Draft Analyst like Mike Mayock brings it up in a world of how is he going to be the answer to all some bad NFL team's prayers? Is it really only a "lack of experience" more so than the reasons why there was a lack of experience?
"I went to Eastern Illinois because I didn't want to be 7th string in the Big Ten..." -Jimmy Garapolo.I may be wrong here and it wouldn't be the first time; but I can't get this out of my dome either. In a world where a prospect probably knows his limitations best, why was Trubisky so reluctant to challenge Barrett at Ohio State? Trubisky chose NC instead so he could eventually start 1 year in the ACC vrs his own perception he couldn't ever beat out Barrett. Wasn't Williams a watered down version of Barrett? I always considered great QBs to be fierce competitors to the extent he feels like beating out Barrett would be no problem (especially if he wants the team holding the 1st overall pick to seriously consider him). Look at how much better Ohio State looked the first 3 times Cardale Jones replaced Barrett back when OSU had a great Offensive Coordinator. That could have been Trubisky if he believed in himself. Trubisky has red flags pertinent to upper 1st round consideration; and those capable of getting past the local boy hero thing can see them.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
"Mitch could have started all three years he was here. For reasons outside his control, he didn't." - K. Heckendorf, UNC QB Coach.But, the Head Coach who watched him practice every single day found enough weaknesses to start Marquise Williams over him for 2 years. That being the case, we could only watch him start twice throughout his entire scholarship. These were both losses to NC State and Stanford. I think this validates a solid reason why a well respected Draft Analyst like Mike Mayock brings it up in a world of how is he going to be the answer to all some bad NFL team's prayers? Is it really only a "lack of experience" more so than the reasons why there was a lack of experience?
"I went to Eastern Illinois because I didn't want to be 7th string in the Big Ten..." -Jimmy Garapolo.I may be wrong here and it wouldn't be the first time; but I can't get this out of my dome either. In a world where a prospect probably knows his limitations best, why was Trubisky so reluctant to challenge Barrett at Ohio State? Trubisky chose NC instead so he could eventually start 1 year in the ACC vrs his own perception he couldn't ever beat out Barrett. Wasn't Williams a watered down version of Barrett? I always considered great QBs to be fierce competitors to the extent he feels like beating out Barrett would be no problem (especially if he wants the team holding the 1st overall pick to seriously consider him). Look at how much better Ohio State looked the first 3 times Cardale Jones replaced Barrett back when OSU had a great Offensive Coordinator. That could have been Trubisky if he believed in himself. Trubisky has red flags pertinent to upper 1st round consideration; and those capable of getting past the local boy hero thing can see them.
"Mitch could have started all three years he was here. For reasons outside his control, he didn't." - K. Heckendorf, UNC QB Coach.
"I went to Eastern Illinois because I didn't want to be 7th string in the Big Ten..." -Jimmy Garapolo.
Not starting is not starting despite the reality a NC coach wants Trubisky too help their recruiting. You know that's important to their program CD. NC went 11-3 the last year Trubisky didn't start - I'd say that's the best reason he didn't start. NC went 8-5 the only year he did start.
I'm not wanting us to trade for a QB CD. I know Trubisky is from Mentor, Ohio so there's a local kid attraction.
There's things I like about Trubisky. Since we're talking about the 1st overall or the 12th overall pick I'm just a little more willing to notice only starting 1 year had his HC seeing some more red flags than people loving the local kid story. It'll be interesting to see if he tempts/excites me more for the 12th overall pick if certain guys get picked before #12 on draft day. Saying I'd be okay with him at #33 overall isn't exactly an insult.
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"Mitch could have started all three years he was here. For reasons outside his control, he didn't." - K. Heckendorf, UNC QB Coach.
"I went to Eastern Illinois because I didn't want to be 7th string in the Big Ten..." -Jimmy Garapolo.
Not starting is not starting despite the reality a NC coach wants Trubisky too help their recruiting. You know that's important to their program CD. NC went 11-3 the last year Trubisky didn't start - I'd say that's the best reason he didn't start. NC went 8-5 the only year he did start.
I'm not wanting us to trade for a QB CD. I know Trubisky is from Mentor, Ohio so there's a local kid attraction.
There's things I like about Trubisky. Since we're talking about the 1st overall or the 12th overall pick I'm just a little more willing to notice only starting 1 year had his HC seeing some more red flags than people loving the local kid story. It'll be interesting to see if he tempts/excites me more for the 12th overall pick if certain guys get picked before #12 on draft day. Saying I'd be okay with him at #33 overall isn't exactly an insult.
Knowing our luck, we'll trade a first round pick to NE for JG and they wiill use it to draft Mitch.Not starting is not starting despite the reality a NC coach wants Trubisky too help their recruiting. You know that's important to their program CD. NC went 11-3 the last year Trubisky didn't start - I'd say that's the best reason he didn't start. NC went 8-5 the only year he did start.
I'm not wanting us to trade for a QB CD. I know Trubisky is from Mentor, Ohio so there's a local kid attraction.
There's things I like about Trubisky. Since we're talking about the 1st overall or the 12thg overall pick I'm just a little more willing to notice only starting 1 year had his HC seeing some red flags than people loving the local kid story.
I'm on record as saying that if the Browns draft offense, I want Mitch, If they go defense I want Garrett.
It would be great if they could land both.
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"Mitch could have started all three years he was here. For reasons outside his control, he didn't." - K. Heckendorf, UNC QB Coach.But, the Head Coach who watched him practice every single day found enough weaknesses to start Marquise Williams over him for 2 years. That being the case, we could only watch him start twice throughout his entire scholarship. These were both losses to NC State and Stanford. I think this validates a solid reason why a well respected Draft Analyst like Mike Mayock brings it up in a world of how is he going to be the answer to all some bad NFL team's prayers? Is it really only a "lack of experience" more so than the reasons why there was a lack of experience?
"I went to Eastern Illinois because I didn't want to be 7th string in the Big Ten..." -Jimmy Garapolo.I may be wrong here and it wouldn't be the first time; but I can't get this out of my dome either. In a world where a prospect probably knows his limitations best, why was Trubisky so reluctant to challenge Barrett at Ohio State? Trubisky chose NC instead so he could eventually start 1 year in the ACC vrs his own perception he couldn't ever beat out Barrett. Wasn't Williams a watered down version of Barrett? I always considered great QBs to be fierce competitors to the extent he feels like beating out Barrett would be no problem (especially if he wants the team holding the 1st overall pick to seriously consider him). Look at how much better Ohio State looked the first 3 times Cardale Jones replaced Barrett back when OSU had a great Offensive Coordinator. That could have been Trubisky if he believed in himself. Trubisky has red flags pertinent to upper 1st round consideration; and those capable of getting past the local boy hero thing can see them.
"Mitch could have started all three years he was here. For reasons outside his control, he didn't." - K. Heckendorf, UNC QB Coach.
"I went to Eastern Illinois because I didn't want to be 7th string in the Big Ten..." -Jimmy Garapolo.
1) Question is- who had the control? I'm sure the Browns will be asking that question.
2) Ha- so why didn't hot prospect Jimmy at least get an offer from Northwestern? Or did he? Inquiring minds want to know.
Let's be fair about this- I'm getting increasingly annoyed about the college hoopla signing day BS. Ranking who had the best haul of HS prospects. Kids develop at different rates- kiss my ass if every 5 star recruit is going to turn into another Myles Garrett, Andrew Luck or Julio Jones. They just hit their peak in HS. The NFL is full of guys from colleges like Grambling, Alcorn, Coastal Carolina, LOL North Dakota State and similar of guys who the "power conferences" deemed not worthy of their consideration.
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PFF tweeted. . .
Rookie QB grades
Dak Prescott, @DallasCowboys 84.9
Carson Wentz, @Eagles 76.8
Cody Kessler, @Browns 74.2
Jared Goff, @RamsNFL 39.7
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PFF tweeted. . .
Rookie QB grades
Dak Prescott, @DallasCowboys 84.9
Carson Wentz, @Eagles 76.8
Cody Kessler, @Browns 74.2
Jared Goff, @RamsNFL 39.7
PFF tweeted. . .
Rookie QB grades
Dak Prescott, @DallasCowboys 84.9
Carson Wentz, @Eagles 76.8
Cody Kessler, @Browns 74.2
Jared Goff, @RamsNFL 39.7
Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
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PFF tweeted. . .
Rookie QB grades
Dak Prescott, @DallasCowboys 84.9
Carson Wentz, @Eagles 76.8
Cody Kessler, @Browns 74.2
Jared Goff, @RamsNFL 39.7
Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
Agree, the Browns need to purge all the QB's from the roster except Cody.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
PFF tweeted. . .
Rookie QB grades
Dak Prescott, @DallasCowboys 84.9
Carson Wentz, @Eagles 76.8
Cody Kessler, @Browns 74.2
Jared Goff, @RamsNFL 39.7
Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
While the numbers looked decent....is there ever a time last year that you thought that Kessler was ever capable of winning a game?
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Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
Agree, the Browns need to purge all the QB's from the roster except Cody.
Agree, the Browns need to purge all the QB's from the roster except Cody.
Are you including Kevin Hogan? Right now I believe that all we have on the roster are Hogan, Kessler, and Griffin.
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Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
While the numbers looked decent....is there ever a time last year that you thought that Kessler was ever capable of winning a game?
While the numbers looked decent....is there ever a time last year that you thought that Kessler was ever capable of winning a game?
Actually yes, IF we had had an injury free OL and a defense that could stop other teams and create turnovers. So if we have that this year, then the answer is yes, I think this team can win with him.
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"Can win with Kess"... sounds like a bumper sticker.
Question is how much load can Kess carry? So far not much is what I see.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Veteran QBs that could be available to the Browns...if they wanted to go that route:
Tyrod Taylor
Tony Romo
Colin Kaepernick
Kirk Cousins
Jimmy Garropolo
Brian Hoyer
Mike Glennon
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Geno Smith
Plus this cast of characters:
- Nick Foles, QB, Chiefs.
- Matt Barkley, QB, Bears.
- Ryan Mallett, QB, Ravens.
- Case Keenum, QB, Rams.
- Christian Ponder, QB, 49ers.
- Josh Johnson, QB, Giants.
- Blaine Gabbert, QB, 49ers.
- Shaun Hill, QB, Vikings.
- Matt Schaub, QB, Falcons.
- Dan Orlovsky, QB, Lions.
- Tyler Bray, QB, Chiefs.
- Johnny Manziel, QB, Browns.
- Josh McCown, QB, Browns.
Who would you all want out of this group....if any?
I would still be somewhat interested in Nick Foles
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"Can win with Kess"... sounds like a bumper sticker.
Question is how much load can Kess carry? So far not much is what I see.
"Can win with Kess"... sounds like a bumper sticker.
Question is how much load can Kess carry? So far not much is what I see.
Perhaps, but our other playmakers have shown the ability to actually make plays from time to time. Behind a solid OL, crow can make big plays. Duke can make guys miss in the open field. Pryor can win contested catches. Coleman can get open with his quickness and make guys miss after the catch (assuming he catches it).
I don't think we need a QB who can win the game on his own (though I wouldn't say no), we just need to get the guys we have to play to their potential.
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"Can win with Kess"... sounds like a bumper sticker.
Question is how much load can Kess carry? So far not much is what I see.
Perhaps, but our other playmakers have shown the ability to actually make plays from time to time. Behind a solid OL, crow can make big plays. Duke can make guys miss in the open field. Pryor can win contested catches. Coleman can get open with his quickness and make guys miss after the catch (assuming he catches it).
I don't think we need a QB who can win the game on his own (though I wouldn't say no), we just need to get the guys we have to play to their potential.
Perhaps, but our other playmakers have shown the ability to actually make plays from time to time. Behind a solid OL, crow can make big plays. Duke can make guys miss in the open field. Pryor can win contested catches. Coleman can get open with his quickness and make guys miss after the catch (assuming he catches it).
I don't think we need a QB who can win the game on his own (though I wouldn't say no), we just need to get the guys we have to play to their potential.
I hear you, but to be clear I am not arguing that we cannot build around a "game manager" type QB. I can't since I argued that we could build around Hoyer, who until his melt down looked that part. What I am arguing is that Kess is not even to the Hoyer level as yet.
The difference is processing speed. At his best Brian took the shots that Kess was benched for bypassing.
Might Kess further develop? Sure... it's not fair to compare the then 5th-year vet that Brian was when he flashed in his injury-shortened emergence with a 3rd-string rookie pressed into action. But then that's the only comparison available at this time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Cody is underrated. Bigly. (By us, not PFF.)
While the numbers looked decent....is there ever a time last year that you thought that Kessler was ever capable of winning a game?
While the numbers looked decent....is there ever a time last year that you thought that Kessler was ever capable of winning a game?
Absolutely.
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