Can This Draft Start like our 1978 Draft?
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Is DeValve supposed to be a TE or WR for us?
We're bad.
We need the biggest, fastest and/or strongest guy available when it's our turn to pick. Even if it's a LT....cos he can play RT until it's his turn at LT.
That's how Chuck Noll turned around the steelers after he took over. After he was hired he gathered the players and told them that he watched their film and knew why the steelers kept losing...and that it was because of them (the players). He said, Ya can't run fast or jump high, you're not shifty or powerful, and quite frankly I'm going to have to replace a whole lot of you.
That's pretty much where we're at. Whoever is the biggest, fastest sumbitch available when it's our turn to pick MOST probably fits a need for us.
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JB could block, when he wanted to...
I am happy as hell he have Joe Thomas. I don't care if he can catch or run. We drafted him to block.
Got me curious so I checked and it does not appear that Joe has a single TD... be it by fumble recovery or OT eligible.
That seems wrong. He needs at least one before he hangs it up.
The winning SB TD in his last game would be a nice parting gift.
JB could block, when he wanted to...
Got me curious so I checked and it does not appear that Joe has a single TD... be it by fumble recovery or OT eligible.
That seems wrong. He needs at least one before he hangs it up.
The winning SB TD in his last game would be a nice parting gift.
Aw, Ghoolie is going to hate this but I'm easily entertained. Watched the Pro Bowl, and with 10 out of 10 Joe is in pretty exclusive company. ESPN heaped some praise on him. Hey Tom, you can cut the crap now- every one of the 10\10 club is in the HOF. Thomas can't help it if the rest of the team sucks.
"Just four other players in NFL history — Merlin Olsen, Mel Renfro, Barry Sanders and Lawrence Taylor — were named to the Pro Bowl in at least the first 10 seasons of their careers. All of those players are Hall of Famers; only Olsen, with 14, went over 10."
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JB could block, when he wanted to...
Got me curious so I checked and it does not appear that Joe has a single TD... be it by fumble recovery or OT eligible.
That seems wrong. He needs at least one before he hangs it up.
The winning SB TD in his last game would be a nice parting gift.
Aw, Ghoolie is going to hate this but I'm easily entertained. Watched the Pro Bowl, and with 10 out of 10 Joe is in pretty exclusive company. ESPN heaped some praise on him. Hey Tom, you can cut the crap now- every one of the 10\10 club is in the HOF. Thomas can't help it if the rest of the team sucks.
"Just four other players in NFL history — Merlin Olsen, Mel Renfro, Barry Sanders and Lawrence Taylor — were named to the Pro Bowl in at least the first 10 seasons of their careers. All of those players are Hall of Famers; only Olsen, with 14, went over 10."
Aw, Ghoolie is going to hate this but I'm easily entertained. Watched the Pro Bowl, and with 10 out of 10 Joe is in pretty exclusive company. ESPN heaped some praise on him. Hey Tom, you can cut the crap now- every one of the 10\10 club is in the HOF. Thomas can't help it if the rest of the team sucks.
"Just four other players in NFL history — Merlin Olsen, Mel Renfro, Barry Sanders and Lawrence Taylor — were named to the Pro Bowl in at least the first 10 seasons of their careers. All of those players are Hall of Famers; only Olsen, with 14, went over 10."
When you say Tom - I'm guessing you mean Ghoolie. I've always been a huge Joe Thomas fan.
One of these days people will figure out Ghoolie isn't here to talk football (ie; wasting time trying to convince him a 10 time Pro Bowl player doesn't suck).
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Aw, Ghoolie is going to hate this but I'm easily entertained. Watched the Pro Bowl, and with 10 out of 10 Joe is in pretty exclusive company. ESPN heaped some praise on him. Hey Tom, you can cut the crap now- every one of the 10\10 club is in the HOF. Thomas can't help it if the rest of the team sucks.
"Just four other players in NFL history — Merlin Olsen, Mel Renfro, Barry Sanders and Lawrence Taylor — were named to the Pro Bowl in at least the first 10 seasons of their careers. All of those players are Hall of Famers; only Olsen, with 14, went over 10."
When you say Tom - I'm guessing you mean Ghoolie. I've always been a huge Joe Thomas fan.
One of these days people will figure out Ghoolie isn't here to talk football (ie; wasting time trying to convince him a 10 time Pro Bowl player doesn't suck).
When you say Tom - I'm guessing you mean Ghoolie. I've always been a huge Joe Thomas fan.
One of these days people will figure out Ghoolie isn't here to talk football (ie; wasting time trying to convince him a 10 time Pro Bowl player doesn't suck).
Of course I meant the other Tom.
Joe is probably a lock first ballot HOFer when he hangs 'em up. -
When you say Tom - I'm guessing you mean Ghoolie. I've always been a huge Joe Thomas fan.
One of these days people will figure out Ghoolie isn't here to talk football (ie; wasting time trying to convince him a 10 time Pro Bowl player doesn't suck).
Of course I meant the other Tom.
Joe is probably a lock first ballot HOFer when he hangs 'em up. Of course I meant the other Tom.
Joe is probably a lock first ballot HOFer when he hangs 'em up. You mean the other, other Tom?
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You mean the other, other Tom?
The Ghoolie Tom. Sheeze, we have the Tom-Tom club.
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Our new scout has found just the player we are looking for-no more failed picks.
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Winter is getting long as the season is but a distant memory if we are now chatting about the next TE for the Cleveland Browns
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O.J. Howard always seems to save his best work for the post season. Here's his first matchup with Clemson as a junior the night he became a National Champion. A couple TDs and some nice seal blocks (like the one on Henry's first TD run). He had well over 100 yards receiving in that game. Barnidge will be 32 this year; and I think this kid will be a great target at 6'6". He also played well in the Senior Bowl. There's a lot of room for improvement especially in staying with his blocks longer but I think this guy has the frame to be a dual purpose TE like a Jason Witten with better gears. I'd hate to see Baltimore or Pittsburgh draft him. The last time we drafted a guy in round 1 to play TE here from Alabama - we frequented post seasons throughout his Hall of Fame career. We could do a lot worse - and have repeatedly.
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Martellus Bennett is still a FA.
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Barn is a decent receiving TE with a knack for finding holes in a zone and above average hands. But he is a liability as a blocker and has issues vs. competent man coverage.
What troubles me more is his YAC... or lack of it. I looked before this season's start at his YAC and it was not good. I grade in can't remember him doing anything this year to improve that.
YAC is an area where I think Devalve can improve the TE position, but he's not a blocker either
I see OJH as a significant upgrade in those two areas, blocking and YAC, without diminishing the positive aspects of the position. In short, I see him as one of the best, most well-rounded TEs to enter the league in years.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Barn is a decent receiving TE with a knack for finding holes in a zone and above average hands. But he is a liability as a blocker and has issues vs. competent man coverage.
What troubles me more is his YAC... or lack of it. I looked before this season's start at his YAC and it was not good. I grade in can't remember him doing anything this year to improve that.
YAC is an area where I think Devalve can improve the TE position, but he's not a blocker either
I see OJH as a significant upgrade in those two areas, blocking and YAC, without diminishing the positive aspects of the position. In short, I see him as one of the best, most well-rounded TEs to enter the league in years.
Barn is a decent receiving TE with a knack for finding holes in a zone and above average hands. But he is a liability as a blocker and has issues vs. competent man coverage.
What troubles me more is his YAC... or lack of it. I looked before this season's start at his YAC and it was not good. I grade in can't remember him doing anything this year to improve that.
YAC is an area where I think Devalve can improve the TE position, but he's not a blocker either
I see OJH as a significant upgrade in those two areas, blocking and YAC, without diminishing the positive aspects of the position. In short, I see him as one of the best, most well-rounded TEs to enter the league in years.
Well articulated! I was sort of surprised at how well Howard consistently hustled into position to be an effective blocker (seeing plenty of room for growth though). I hope people watch that whole highlight of the Clemson game I linked up in my previous post. He was the game changer in that passing game the last time Bama was crowned a National Champion. I'll guarantee a guy like Ozzie Newsome that played at Alabama will be all over this kid. I keep reminding myself that if you take this guy away from a true freshman QB and put him in an NFL offense that leans on a TE - he can be a significant.
As for Barnidge, he turns 32 in September and I posted the huge difference between his 2015 and 2016 stats (understanding part of that wasn't all his fault). When I watched some of his highlights, he almost looked like he was fighting some pain more than defenders. He looked like he was waddling side to side. I remembered hearing more about his blocking skills when he arrived than what he had done receiving so if those are diminishing too - the timing of an O.J.Howard couldn't be any better. It's not that I don't like DeValve. In fact, I think I'd prefer to see him in the slot in the near future. My concern with DeValve is he seems too injury prone to count on. I like his talent though...
This probably won't mean a thing to a lot of us outside of me; but after the Senior Bowl I saw 2 guys wearing a Cleveland Browns baseball cap on their domes. They were O.J. Howard and Davis Webb.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Winter is getting long as the season is but a distant memory if we are now chatting about the next TE for the Cleveland Browns
Winter is getting long as the season is but a distant memory if we are now chatting about the next TE for the Cleveland Browns
To quote The Citadel: Winter is here.
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Winter is getting long as the season is but a distant memory if we are now chatting about the next TE for the Cleveland Browns
To quote The Citadel: Winter is here.
To quote The Citadel: Winter is here.
Freedom of speech also means others have a freedom of listening or choosing not to. This is why there's a menu of topics to choose from right? I'll continue to understand the reason a message board exists for a passionate fan base like we have is because people want to talk about their favorite team year round. Since there's Bowl Games, All Star games and pre-draft workouts that will impact where players go in the draft all throughout Winter - I'm glad we have an ideal place we can discuss this.
To understand our journey ahead, me must first understand where we have been. This includes what has worked well every bit as much as what has not. For example, the TE position we drafted with a purpose to upgrade in 1978 became the foundation and focal point for my 2 favorite QBs (Sipe and Kosar) of my lifetime as a fan. Ozzie's ability as a college WR to transition as an NFL TE opened up opportunities for our WR Corps and our QBs to become very efficient. Playing gridiron chess when you can dictate/manipulate where you want the Safety via an attack piece Ozzie eases everything.
Lindy Infante preferred to stretch defenses horizontally from sideline to sideline, which would eventually allow Kosar some uncontested deep routes all the while Ozzie commanded attention in the seams. In essence, this wasn't a tough place to play QB at all. I'll even venture to say, Ozzie was a pretty good blocker in the 2nd and 3rd tiers of defenses; but he wasn't a huge help with trying to set the edge of the first tier. Howard looks like he can be good at helping to set the edge IMO...
New school fans that never saw our 80s teams frequenting post seasons - won't see the TE position value like those of us that witnessed it. I don't mean any disrespect in saying that. This thread shows me there's prolly a lot more young guys besides Bacon thinking what the flock is so earth shattering about a TE?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Even better how about we start this draft like our 1996 draft.
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Barn is a decent receiving TE with a knack for finding holes in a zone and above average hands. But he is a liability as a blocker and has issues vs. competent man coverage.
What troubles me more is his YAC... or lack of it. I looked before this season's start at his YAC and it was not good. I grade in can't remember him doing anything this year to improve that.
YAC is an area where I think Devalve can improve the TE position, but he's not a blocker either
I see OJH as a significant upgrade in those two areas, blocking and YAC, without diminishing the positive aspects of the position. In short, I see him as one of the best, most well-rounded TEs to enter the league in years.
Well articulated! I was sort of surprised at how well Howard consistently hustled into position to be an effective blocker (seeing plenty of room for growth though). I hope people watch that whole highlight of the Clemson game I linked up in my previous post. He was the game changer in that passing game the last time Bama was crowned a National Champion. I'll guarantee a guy like Ozzie Newsome that played at Alabama will be all over this kid. I keep reminding myself that if you take this guy away from a true freshman QB and put him in an NFL offense that leans on a TE - he can be a significant.
As for Barnidge, he turns 32 in September and I posted the huge difference between his 2015 and 2016 stats (understanding part of that wasn't all his fault). When I watched some of his highlights, he almost looked like he was fighting some pain more than defenders. He looked like he was waddling side to side. I remembered hearing more about his blocking skills when he arrived than what he had done receiving so if those are diminishing too - the timing of an O.J.Howard couldn't be any better. It's not that I don't like DeValve. In fact, I think I'd prefer to see him in the slot in the near future. My concern with DeValve is he seems too injury prone to count on. I like his talent though...
This probably won't mean a thing to a lot of us outside of me; but after the Senior Bowl I saw 2 guys wearing a Cleveland Browns baseball cap on their domes. They were O.J. Howard and Davis Webb.
As for Barnidge... I remembered hearing more about his blocking skills when he arrived than what he had done receiving so if those are diminishing too...
Your memory is better than mine... I don't remember hearing anything about Bran's blocking when he arrived... good or bad.
I do remember that he sat behind Jim Dray, who was a good blocker at the time, but whose skill in that area went mysteriously south in his final season with us.
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To quote The Citadel: Winter is here.
Freedom of speech also means others have a freedom of listening or choosing not to. This is why there's a menu of topics to choose from right? I'll continue to understand the reason a message board exists for a passionate fan base like we have is because people want to talk about their favorite team year round. Since there's Bowl Games, All Star games and pre-draft workouts that will impact where players go in the draft all throughout Winter - I'm glad we have an ideal place we can discuss this.
To understand our journey ahead, me must first understand where we have been. This includes what has worked well every bit as much as what has not. For example, the TE position we drafted with a purpose to upgrade in 1978 became the foundation and focal point for my 2 favorite QBs (Sipe and Kosar) of my lifetime as a fan. Ozzie's ability as a college WR to transition as an NFL TE opened up opportunities for our WR Corps and our QBs to become very efficient. Playing gridiron chess when you can dictate/manipulate where you want the Safety via an attack piece Ozzie eases everything.
Lindy Infante preferred to stretch defenses horizontally from sideline to sideline, which would eventually allow Kosar some uncontested deep routes all the while Ozzie commanded attention in the seams. In essence, this wasn't a tough place to play QB at all. I'll even venture to say, Ozzie was a pretty good blocker in the 2nd and 3rd tiers of defenses; but he wasn't a huge help with trying to set the edge of the first tier. Howard looks like he can be good at helping to set the edge IMO...
New school fans that never saw our 80s teams frequenting post seasons - won't see the TE position value like those of us that witnessed it. I don't mean any disrespect in saying that. This thread shows me there's prolly a lot more young guys besides Bacon thinking what the flock is so earth shattering about a TE?
Freedom of speech also means others have a freedom of listening or choosing not to. This is why there's a menu of topics to choose from right? I'll continue to understand the reason a message board exists for a passionate fan base like we have is because people want to talk about their favorite team year round. Since there's Bowl Games, All Star games and pre-draft workouts that will impact where players go in the draft all throughout Winter - I'm glad we have an ideal place we can discuss this.
To understand our journey ahead, me must first understand where we have been. This includes what has worked well every bit as much as what has not. For example, the TE position we drafted with a purpose to upgrade in 1978 became the foundation and focal point for my 2 favorite QBs (Sipe and Kosar) of my lifetime as a fan. Ozzie's ability as a college WR to transition as an NFL TE opened up opportunities for our WR Corps and our QBs to become very efficient. Playing gridiron chess when you can dictate/manipulate where you want the Safety via an attack piece Ozzie eases everything.
Lindy Infante preferred to stretch defenses horizontally from sideline to sideline, which would eventually allow Kosar some uncontested deep routes all the while Ozzie commanded attention in the seams. In essence, this wasn't a tough place to play QB at all. I'll even venture to say, Ozzie was a pretty good blocker in the 2nd and 3rd tiers of defenses; but he wasn't a huge help with trying to set the edge of the first tier. Howard looks like he can be good at helping to set the edge IMO...
New school fans that never saw our 80s teams frequenting post seasons - won't see the TE position value like those of us that witnessed it. I don't mean any disrespect in saying that. This thread shows me there's prolly a lot more young guys besides Bacon thinking what the flock is so earth shattering about a TE?
You don't have to convince me. TEs are one of the most important weapons on any NFL team these days. I would only add that I think the Browns have pretty good one in Barnidge. He can be called a "Pro Bowl" TE. And a really good second one would be nice as well. DeValve may in fact become that.
If I questioned the TE position (I don't think I did) it was only to say that I think this team has much bigger holes to fill.
But, yea, a good TE can be a QBs best friend.
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Freedom of speech also means others have a freedom of listening or choosing not to. This is why there's a menu of topics to choose from right? I'll continue to understand the reason a message board exists for a passionate fan base like we have is because people want to talk about their favorite team year round. Since there's Bowl Games, All Star games and pre-draft workouts that will impact where players go in the draft all throughout Winter - I'm glad we have an ideal place we can discuss this.
To understand our journey ahead, me must first understand where we have been. This includes what has worked well every bit as much as what has not. For example, the TE position we drafted with a purpose to upgrade in 1978 became the foundation and focal point for my 2 favorite QBs (Sipe and Kosar) of my lifetime as a fan. Ozzie's ability as a college WR to transition as an NFL TE opened up opportunities for our WR Corps and our QBs to become very efficient. Playing gridiron chess when you can dictate/manipulate where you want the Safety via an attack piece Ozzie eases everything.
Lindy Infante preferred to stretch defenses horizontally from sideline to sideline, which would eventually allow Kosar some uncontested deep routes all the while Ozzie commanded attention in the seams. In essence, this wasn't a tough place to play QB at all. I'll even venture to say, Ozzie was a pretty good blocker in the 2nd and 3rd tiers of defenses; but he wasn't a huge help with trying to set the edge of the first tier. Howard looks like he can be good at helping to set the edge IMO...
New school fans that never saw our 80s teams frequenting post seasons - won't see the TE position value like those of us that witnessed it. I don't mean any disrespect in saying that. This thread shows me there's prolly a lot more young guys besides Bacon thinking what the flock is so earth shattering about a TE?
You don't have to convince me. TEs are one of the most important weapons on any NFL team these days. I would only add that I think the Browns have pretty good one in Barnidge. He can be called a "Pro Bowl" TE. And a really good second one would be nice as well. DeValve may in fact become that.
If I questioned the TE position (I don't think I did) it was only to say that I think this team has much bigger holes to fill.
But, yea, a good TE can be a QBs best friend.
You don't have to convince me. TEs are one of the most important weapons on any NFL team these days. I would only add that I think the Browns have pretty good one in Barnidge. He can be called a "Pro Bowl" TE. And a really good second one would be nice as well. DeValve may in fact become that.
If I questioned the TE position (I don't think I did) it was only to say that I think this team has much bigger holes to fill.
But, yea, a good TE can be a QBs best friend.
Some good points - thanks Gips! The only thing I'll disagree with is where Barnidge is at now vrs where he was in 2015 when he made the Pro Bowl. Here's what I typed earlier in this thread:
I feel like Barnidge's performance wasn't just slipping because our our QBs - he looked like he lost some quickness and dropped a lot of catchable passes (out of character). He went from 79 rec for 1043 rec yards 65.2 ypg and 9 TDs in 2015 down to 55 rec 611 rec yards 35.2 ypg and 2 TDs in 2016. The yards per catch also decreased by about 2 yards as well. He wasn't that good of a blocker either, which all caught me off guard following the only Pro Bowl season of his career. He will be 32 in September so I don't get the sense he has a lot left; but I could certainly be wrong about such a hunch.
From the title I carefully selected, it would remind me a lot of our 1978 if the pick of the litter on defense can team up with the next talented target (OJ Howard) we draft out of Alabama to play TE here. This one is 6'6" tall with a nice catch radius and some raw but intriguing blocking skills that can be refined. I put a link of his game vrs Clemson from 2 years ago somewhere in this thread to show you how lethal he can be in the passing game, while he also had some nice blocks (ie; the one on one outside where he got great position inside to seal off the Clemson DE for a long TD run by Henry). He seems more dual purpose than he'll probably get credited for while the Clemson game highlight will display his X-factor to a downfield passing game. Not only am I intrigued by his talent; but I'm also worried Ozzie Newsome remembers how important Shannon Sharpe was in preventing Dilfer from killing Dilfer. If we don't draft OJ Howard, just be prepared to watch him helping Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
If the pick of the litter on D can give us the consistency and productivity of a Clay Matthews toward whatever their specific role will be in tandem with what OJ Howard's dynamic can open up, could be the killer combo we've longed for in round 1 all this time. The draft is deeper in the secondary plus we get 2 defenders back from injury (Des Bryant and Nate Orchard), which should accimate well to Williams' schemes/alignments.
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