Watson Undraftable
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Donovan McNabb didn't get a ton of pre-draft love coming out of the Veer Option at Syracuse. Lucky for him Andy Reid remembered that Brett Favre played in a very similar offense at So Miss after he rusher for over 3,000 yards in his high school career. Our FO spent all it's time on Akili Smith and Tim Couch.
I'm not concerned about the offense, just referencing the link in the op about deshaun's velocity. I've already said my piece about deshaun: in the 5th round? Sure. But a 220 lb running quarterback who has already had a torn ACL? A guy who doesn't have much velocity or accuracy? A poor decision maker who doesn't read the whole field? That's far too much for me to overlook, the skip bayless approach of "he was good in college, he will be good in the NFL" is how you end up projecting Manziel, Weeden, and Tebow as the next big thing.
I'm not concerned about the offense, just referencing the link in the op about deshaun's velocity. I've already said my piece about deshaun: in the 5th round? Sure. But a 220 lb running quarterback who has already had a torn ACL? A guy who doesn't have much velocity or accuracy? A poor decision maker who doesn't read the whole field? That's far too much for me to overlook, the skip bayless approach of "he was good in college, he will be good in the NFL" is how you end up projecting Manziel, Weeden, and Tebow as the next big thing.
Royce, I like reading your input about the QBs. I think you're pretty fair and you don't get too caught up in where their from like Skip Bayless does as well. The previous knee injury is a big concern because those always have a way of coming back on guys like Jamaal Charles, Adrian Peterson and RG3.
Your point about Watson in round 5 is where I am with a lot of QBs in this draft, except they always go ahead of where they should so I'll have to decide where I find some of these guys acceptable after round 1. Depends on where the runs on them take place I suppose. Joe Montana wasn't accurate at all in college and he had a ho hum 10 TD passes to 9 INTs. The thing that really made him drop to round 3? Arm strength, so I'm not sure how accurate some of these assessments are especially when I watched which QB was best at throwing the out routes in Indy. Watson had lot of zip with perfect placement of football between WR and sideline. Mayock thinks he has good arm strength. Former QB & NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah said he had the best workout in Indy as did Charlie Casserly. Both said good zip and velocity on his passes. Having said all that, when it's live with defenses - mechanics change under improvise and I'm sure there's several examples of bad velocity.
I just don't see 1 QB that excites me for pick #1 or #12 in round 1, which REALLY sucks when we went 1-15 to be at #1. As for Trubisky, I'm not insulting a prospect when I say I think round 2 is a much more reasonable projection for a guy only 13 starts old but he played high school football in Mentor, OH so it goes over like a fart in church with some guys. Round 2 is where Favre, Brees and Derek Carr went. In the end, which of these prospects can handle the situation in Cleveland best? Probably a guy that doesn't have to start right away, which this draft seems full of. So, which ones won't get Blake Bortled up where they don't belong? Webb seems polarizing but there looks to be a lot of goodies and a resume of starting in 2 different college offenses with pretty good completion percentages as a reasonable starting point for a 6-5 prospect with the pocket presence he displayed at the Senior Bowl. Going this route can enable the FO to work on making this an easier to play QB with what they put in place around him and limiting points on the other side of the ball giving a QB some margin of error to work with...
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I'll be honest webb has all the tools and i just have a gut feeling on this kid.
What i'm getting at is that it's as equally irrelevant as winning records FlugI'll be honest webb has all the tools and i just have a gut feeling on this kid.
What i'm getting at is that it's as equally irrelevant as winning records Flug
I'm with you on Webb and the college QB record thing (ie Steve Walsh, Matt Leinart, Andre Ware, David Klingler, RG3, VY).
My whole context of Watson has never involved round 1 as much as it's been keeping an open mind about Watson if we draft him after that as early as round 2. If he's Blake Bortle'd up to round 1 - it better be an ideal situation and Cleveland is not it. No different than how I feel with Trubisky, it's just that he has some fans in here that want to go to battle against anyone that doesn't see him as a first round pick here.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I'm with ya flugs, and I was being a little cantankerous with the 5th rd projection. there is a lot to like about Watson, but also a lot of question marks, but that can be said for all the QB prospects in this class.
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I'll be honest webb has all the tools and i just have a gut feeling on this kid.
What i'm getting at is that it's as equally irrelevant as winning records Flug
I'm with you on Webb and the college QB record thing (ie Steve Walsh, Matt Leinart, Andre Ware, David Klingler, RG3, VY).
My whole context of Watson has never involved round 1 as much as it's been keeping an open mind about Watson if we draft him after that as early as round 2. If he's Blake Bortle'd up to round 1 - it better be an ideal situation and Cleveland is not it. No different than how I feel with Trubisky, it's just that he has some fans in here that want to go to battle against anyone that doesn't see him as a first round pick here.
I'm with you on Webb and the college QB record thing (ie Steve Walsh, Matt Leinart, Andre Ware, David Klingler, RG3, VY).
My whole context of Watson has never involved round 1 as much as it's been keeping an open mind about Watson if we draft him after that as early as round 2. If he's Blake Bortle'd up to round 1 - it better be an ideal situation and Cleveland is not it. No different than how I feel with Trubisky, it's just that he has some fans in here that want to go to battle against anyone that doesn't see him as a first round pick here.
Tom, I wish you wouldn't take that as "battling". I'll fully agree after the velocity issue came out I would drop Watson to day three. Others have pointed out what they don't like about him, so I'm not going to repeat that stuff. LOL, from the other side of the fence, it sure looks like you're defending Watson to the death, and now well- he's not first round material. Gee, I happen to agree. If you don't see Trubisky as first round material that's fine, plenty of others do.
Whether or not Mitch is worthy of the #12 (or a trade up) isn't something I'm going to decide. I hope you noticed I've change my mind, and gone with the majority opinion Garrett is the guy we should draft @ #1. As I've said, the NFL has a first round grade on Trubisky- so do me and Gip. We've put our money where our mouths are too- we have drinks and dinner bets going that he's going to get taken in the top 10. Care to join the naysayers in that bet? Am I going to be brokenhearted if we go all defense in the first round? Hardly.
That Mitch is a local kid is coloring my judgement- to an extent. If you've noticed, there's several guys here who have seen him since High School and are as convinced as I am that he's the real deal. Sorry, can't help it, I like what I see. I sure was adamant I didn't want anything to do with Ohio kid and boyhood Browns fan Brady Quinn. I'm also on record Toledo native DeShone Kizer is another Quinn just waiting to happen.
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I couldn't draft any QB high in round 1. If we grab one in the 1st, trade up from 33 to maybe 25.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.
So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that
a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB
b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.
Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.
So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that
a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB
b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.
You can add Glennon since he just got a nice deal with da Bears. Overall though there are very few guys starting with velocity less than 53. You have to wonder if there is some kind of error?? I mean if he knew his velocity was that low wouldnt he have been advised not to throw?
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I couldn't draft any QB high in round 1. If we grab one in the 1st, trade up from 33 to maybe 25.
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Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.
So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that
a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB
b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.
You can add Glennon since he just got a nice deal with da Bears. Overall though there are very few guys starting with velocity less than 53. You have to wonder if there is some kind of error?? I mean if he knew his velocity was that low wouldnt he have been advised not to throw?
You can add Glennon since he just got a nice deal with da Bears. Overall though there are very few guys starting with velocity less than 53. You have to wonder if there is some kind of error?? I mean if he knew his velocity was that low wouldnt he have been advised not to throw?
Tyrod may not have set the world on fire over the last two seasons, but he won 15 of his 29 starts and threw 37 TDs to 12 INTs. Glennon getting a new contract isn't enough for me to put him up there with Tyrod just yet.
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I couldn't draft any QB high in round 1. If we grab one in the 1st, trade up from 33 to maybe 25.
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I'm with you on Webb and the college QB record thing (ie Steve Walsh, Matt Leinart, Andre Ware, David Klingler, RG3, VY).
My whole context of Watson has never involved round 1 as much as it's been keeping an open mind about Watson if we draft him after that as early as round 2. If he's Blake Bortle'd up to round 1 - it better be an ideal situation and Cleveland is not it. No different than how I feel with Trubisky, it's just that he has some fans in here that want to go to battle against anyone that doesn't see him as a first round pick here.
Tom, I wish you wouldn't take that as "battling". I'll fully agree after the velocity issue came out I would drop Watson to day three. Others have pointed out what they don't like about him, so I'm not going to repeat that stuff. LOL, from the other side of the fence, it sure looks like you're defending Watson to the death, and now well- he's not first round material. Gee, I happen to agree. If you don't see Trubisky as first round material that's fine, plenty of others do.
Whether or not Mitch is worthy of the #12 (or a trade up) isn't something I'm going to decide. I hope you noticed I've change my mind, and gone with the majority opinion Garrett is the guy we should draft @ #1. As I've said, the NFL has a first round grade on Trubisky- so do me and Gip. We've put our money where our mouths are too- we have drinks and dinner bets going that he's going to get taken in the top 10. Care to join the naysayers in that bet? Am I going to be brokenhearted if we go all defense in the first round? Hardly.
That Mitch is a local kid is coloring my judgement- to an extent. If you've noticed, there's several guys here who have seen him since High School and are as convinced as I am that he's the real deal. Sorry, can't help it, I like what I see. I sure was adamant I didn't want anything to do with Ohio kid and boyhood Browns fan Brady Quinn. I'm also on record Toledo native DeShone Kizer is another Quinn just waiting to happen.
Tom, I wish you wouldn't take that as "battling". I'll fully agree after the velocity issue came out I would drop Watson to day three. Others have pointed out what they don't like about him, so I'm not going to repeat that stuff. LOL, from the other side of the fence, it sure looks like you're defending Watson to the death, and now well- he's not first round material. Gee, I happen to agree. If you don't see Trubisky as first round material that's fine, plenty of others do.
Whether or not Mitch is worthy of the #12 (or a trade up) isn't something I'm going to decide. I hope you noticed I've change my mind, and gone with the majority opinion Garrett is the guy we should draft @ #1. As I've said, the NFL has a first round grade on Trubisky- so do me and Gip. We've put our money where our mouths are too- we have drinks and dinner bets going that he's going to get taken in the top 10. Care to join the naysayers in that bet? Am I going to be brokenhearted if we go all defense in the first round? Hardly.
That Mitch is a local kid is coloring my judgement- to an extent. If you've noticed, there's several guys here who have seen him since High School and are as convinced as I am that he's the real deal. Sorry, can't help it, I like what I see. I sure was adamant I didn't want anything to do with Ohio kid and boyhood Browns fan Brady Quinn. I'm also on record Toledo native DeShone Kizer is another Quinn just waiting to happen.
Larry, we go back a long way. I don't mind that you like Trubisky. Just read/listen to why some people defend other QBs without feeling offended.
Reality is Atenears went to Mentor High School and he even likes Trubisky but understands Cleveland isn't ready for him as high as #1 or #12 overall. Mud said he is from an adjacent community and as much as he likes Trubisky, he said he is clearly not the answer to all OUR prayers here.
When we have the #1 or #12 overall pick after finishing 1-15 don't you think I'd love to see the solution at QB on our doorstep?
I don't want us to take Watson at all. I'm not going to spend the next 3 years like I spent the first 3 years on defending Tim Couch here especially when nobody wants him enough to welcome. The year we clinched the playoffs on the day Holcomb took over for a injured Tim Couch - our home crowd cheered while Couch laid motionless on the field with a neck/shoulder injury. That's what wanting any QB in the first round is signing up for. I don't have enough evidence on any QB to sign up for that.
As for Watson, I just think people go out of their way to look for weaknesses, Last I heard, he has all the same pre-draft concerns Joe Montana supposedly had. You saw the combines, where did he suck specifically? If he's white, there's no such thing as he can only be RG4. I'm fine with people not wanting him in round 1 any more than I do but some of this criticism is unfounded when Mayock, Jeremiah and Casserly said he has a strong arm at the combines. I agreed as did Tour but??????
Having said that Dan Fouts looked terrible in wind chills far below zero at Cincy in the post season just like Sipe did against Oakland in similar conditions vrs Oakland at home in Cleveland,which makes remembering the importance of a reliable running game important in a Great Lake state such as Ohio.
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If this much emphasis is going to be placed on a radar gun reading, the NFL ought to take control of the measurement process.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If this much emphasis is going to be placed on a radar gun reading, the NFL ought to take control of the measurement process.
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He is a gamer. Played agAinst best college defenses and came out with clutch wins when needed.
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He is a gamer. Played agAinst best college defenses and came out with clutch wins when needed.
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@londonbrown said:
What the fuck is your problem all of a sudden?
All of a sudden?
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@londonbrown said:
What the fuck is your problem all of a sudden?
All of a sudden?
All of a sudden?
I've spoken to him often on here before without any ill feeling.
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If this much emphasis is going to be placed on a radar gun reading, the NFL ought to take control of the measurement process.
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He is a gamer. Played agAinst best college defenses and came out with clutch wins when needed.
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