Forget the Mocks, Post Your Draft Board...
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Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
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Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
Why not post actual cutups that aren't just highlights? Might find something you don't like....?
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Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
Why not post actual cutups that aren't just highlights? Might find something you don't like....?
Why not post actual cutups that aren't just highlights? Might find something you don't like....?
Simple...Fluges hasnt watch a single game, so I wouldn't expect him to sit here and watch individual game tapes of the guy.....if he didnt watch one, why would he watch 40?.....I simply offered this up as a sampling of what he can do and his versatility as an offensive weapon, CB and return man...and it only takes 5 minutes instead of 40 hours....
All players have warts....Adore is no different....but if you follow the conversation, thats not the point.....
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Mud, I've watched 7 full games of Adoree & the dude was played everywhere..Made for a slot corner. His Pro day he handled the height of Ju Ju Schuster up top also. AJ is a 2" smaller Trae Waynes could be. AJ has longer arms & 1 full inch longer hands than Waynes. Only thing Waynes out measured Adoree in is his 2" height difference in Broad. Trae Waynes played at Michigan St in 15..closest comparison with same competition level i could fine..Trae went 11th (I swear I have that same Deforest Buckner lost at 7 last season. As I do seeing the Saints nabbing Adoree at 32 🥷) Brandon Cooks who?
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Ok.....hopefully Ill get you to Adore Adore' more'...if you follow my points....
First: You've admitted you've only seen one game he played in and he left that game with an injury....so you are discounting him without even seeing what he can do or how he plays.....??
second: You claim he will be susceptible to injury, due to his size(2" and 10 lbs) and the fact that he got hurt that one time....even though he played 3 fuil college seasons w/o missing a single start....and the only injury he had was a twisted ankle(which certainly was not caused by his size)...
Comments below confirm this...correct?
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
And, in the above comment, you then say there are some good ones in the mid to late rounds that you would prefer.....so I asked who and you gave me(basically) the top 10 CB prospects.....and no one? from the mid to late rounds.....(which is what you said)
Below I see a bunch of top picks, many(most) whom will be gone when we are picking CB....So, lets address a few things about some of these guys below, who are an inch or 2 taller....and a few pounds more....but who's other measureables are much worse(and these are being ignored, just for the sake of a few inches??)....
Guys like King, Jones and White are taller....but leaner....meaning(to me) they have less bulk and are more likely to break. Thicker guys can withstand more than skinny guys....and Id say Adore is as thick and tough as most of em....
Speed and athleticism are critical, and outside of Lattimore, none of these guys are better athletes or faster than Adore....and, as a CB, Id think speed and athletic ability rank higher than an extra inch in height...
And, speaking of athletic ability....Adore has a 37" vertical.....compare that to Tankersley at 29" or Tabor at 31" and see that Adore is the one most likely to challenge a tall WR, because he's the one who can actually keep up with AND jump with the biggest and best....
NOW......the extra goodies.....Adore is also a great kickoff and punt returner......and can play WR.....and RB.....WHY?.....because he;s a REAL football player through and through....boths side of the ball....and special teams too....this is the type of guy ALL teams need....and Id think you, of all people, would appreciate a guy like this who gives his all...always...
You present some good challenges here Mud. I'll give it a whirl...
Here's some bigger Corners over 6':
Kevin King 6'2 5/8" 195 lbs Wash
Marlon Humphrey 6'1" 200 lbs Bama
Quincy Wilson 6'1" 212 lbs UF
Rasul Douglas 6'2" 204 lbs WVA
Greg Mabin 6'1 3/4" 200 lbs Iowa
Here's some at 6':
Marshon Lattimore 6' 195 lbs OSU
Teez Tabor 6' 200 lbs UF
Gareon Conley 6" 192 lbs OSU
Sidney Jones 6' 180 lbs (injured) Wash
Cordea Tankersly 6' 200 lbs Clemson
Chidobe Awuzie 6' 205 lbs Colorado
Marquez White 6' 184 lbs FSU
Adoree is listed at 5'10" 183 lbs and like I said - he got injured twisted his ankle in the Rose Bowl.
As for Joe Haden - Athlon Sports 2016 Pro Football preview listed him at 5'11" 195 lbs and K'Wuan Williams was listed at 5'9" 183 lbs (and it felt like he couldn't finish quite a few games he started/held down the 3rd corner spot due to injuries/dings/concussions). Many of our DBs the last 2-3 years have had trouble staying healthy while concussion volumes back there seemed to spike in 2015.
Quick notes on this.....1) concussions are not a result of being a couple inches shorter. .....2)none of our small DB were hurt due to their size......3) You seem to LOVE our new guy Boddy Calhoun who is only 5-9".....and Taylor who is 5-11"////
So....in the end....you have completely discounted a multi talented - old school - always healthy - 3 way player without even watching him play, simply because he's an inch or 2 shorter than you prefer(even though you love our guys who are the same size)...... and you have declared you'd rather pick a lower ranked (taller) player who is apparently available later in the draft(though you cant/havent' named him).....all w/o seeing a single game of his stellar 3 year college career....
And I hope Ive established that his speed and leaping ability allow him to do everything(and more) than most of those guys on the list.....and the injury thing is just worry on your part...there is no precedent for it with smaller DB's or Adore....none...
I guess we each have a way to rank players, but I prefer the ole "watch him before I judge" rule.....
Ok.....hopefully Ill get you to Adore Adore' more'...if you follow my points....
First: You've admitted you've only seen one game he played in and he left that game with an injury....so you are discounting him without even seeing what he can do or how he plays.....??
second: You claim he will be susceptible to injury, due to his size(2" and 10 lbs) and the fact that he got hurt that one time....even though he played 3 fuil college seasons w/o missing a single start....and the only injury he had was a twisted ankle(which certainly was not caused by his size)...
Comments below confirm this...correct?
I watched USC more in 2014 and 2015 than I did in 2016 (and he never jumped off the screen at me then)so here's a re-cut and paste of what I did say:
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
Your concern about my comment before forming an opinion can go a lot wider spread than me when it comes to prospects. How many people watched very many complete games of Zah Jones or perhaps Ali Marpet (Hobart D-III) or even Carson Wentz - before adding them to their mock drafts/pecking order? We look to the highlights, rankings, workouts, height and weight - but do we ever have enough to be 100% sure? For that matter, how many of Jabril Peppers' biggest critics watched him more than once a year vrs Ohio State?
What I do know is when we didn't have a good front 7 in the last 2-3 years - our DBs were taking on some 210-240 lb RBs with a head of steam. We had a very high concussion volume in our secondary in 2015. If you're fine with a little 183 lb corner taking that on every week - ok. I just voiced my concern that I can't see it holding up at the NFL level. I finished that post with: I could be doing a Dave Kingmanesque swing from my ass and miss here - and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
I don't rank corners and never have.I always prioritize Safeties even back when Eric Berry and Joe Haden were coming out. I was hoping more for Berry than Haden at the time but so was KC. That said, but I like Haden a lot. IMO, if we're going to improve our secondary - the priority should start in the middle at Safety like Pitt did with Pollyneedsahaircut, Baltimore did with Ed Reed, and BB once did here with Eric Turner. There will be plenty of good corners available beside Jackson in what looks to be a deep draft at DB.
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Tour, where are Tre'Davious White and Marlon Humphrey? Two first rounders I never seem to hear about on this board.
TBH.... I don't spend a s much time on CBs. The cutdowns simply don't give enough of a look at them. If I had all-22's, I'd spend more time.
Then there's the "will-they-be-there" factor... or do I care if they are? I feel in the gap between 1.12 and 2.01 many of the better CBs will get snapped up. And since I am a front2back-insideout kinda guy, I like Safeties in the 2nd... especially at the time I did "my board". Add that there is depth in this CB and I care a little less about the top of the class once I see value into Day 3.
Since then I've cooled a little more on our SS need and upped our FS need. So today I might focus more on CBs to the extent that I can.
Thought this was interesting regards grading big boards years later
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/hasan-who-crafted-the-best-big-board-in-2014/
Was interesting... can't wait until 2020 to see how my board does. Which, if so inclined, I could actually test using his methodology... and a PFF subscription.
Was interesting... can't wait until 2020 to see how my board does. Which, if so inclined, I could actually test using his methodology... and a PFF subscription.
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
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Was interesting... can't wait until 2020 to see how my board does. Which, if so inclined, I could actually test using his methodology... and a PFF subscription.
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
I'd love to get #33 (Zack Cunningham) right there on that list, but I bet he is already gone by then.
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Was interesting... can't wait until 2020 to see how my board does. Which, if so inclined, I could actually test using his methodology... and a PFF subscription.
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
No surprise, but the lowest variance belongs to MG... and not by a little.
1 Myles Garrett Texas A&M ER 63.9
Wish they posted the raw positional averages as well.
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Was interesting... can't wait until 2020 to see how my board does. Which, if so inclined, I could actually test using his methodology... and a PFF subscription.
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
Where are the QBs, you ask?
22 Deshaun Watson Clemson QB 120.5
26 Mitchell Trubisky North Carolina QB 107
30 Patrick Mahomes II Texas Tech QB 134.6
39 DeShone Kizer Notre Dame QB 123.2
103 Davis Webb California QB 108.3
111 Nathan Peterman Pittsburgh QB 96.6
112 Brad Kaaya Miami (Fla.) QB 96.8
180 Joshua Dobbs Tennessee QB 83
207 Jerod Evans Virginia Tech QB 91.5
239 Chad Kelly Mississippi QB 85.8
297 Seth Russell Baylor QB 87
So much for the "everyone-says-Trubs-is-the-top-QB-in-the-class" argument...
Wait for it... 🥷
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That article was the lead up to this one from this morning, the consensus big board
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/featured/the-2017-consensus-big-board-complete-300-player-rankings/
Where are the QBs, you ask?
22 Deshaun Watson Clemson QB 120.5
26 Mitchell Trubisky North Carolina QB 107
30 Patrick Mahomes II Texas Tech QB 134.6
39 DeShone Kizer Notre Dame QB 123.2
103 Davis Webb California QB 108.3
111 Nathan Peterman Pittsburgh QB 96.6
112 Brad Kaaya Miami (Fla.) QB 96.8
180 Joshua Dobbs Tennessee QB 83
207 Jerod Evans Virginia Tech QB 91.5
239 Chad Kelly Mississippi QB 85.8
297 Seth Russell Baylor QB 87
So much for the "everyone-says-Trubs-is-the-top-QB-in-the-class" argument...
Wait for it... 🥷
Where are the QBs, you ask?
22 Deshaun Watson Clemson QB 120.5
26 Mitchell Trubisky North Carolina QB 107
30 Patrick Mahomes II Texas Tech QB 134.6
39 DeShone Kizer Notre Dame QB 123.2
103 Davis Webb California QB 108.3
111 Nathan Peterman Pittsburgh QB 96.6
112 Brad Kaaya Miami (Fla.) QB 96.8
180 Joshua Dobbs Tennessee QB 83
207 Jerod Evans Virginia Tech QB 91.5
239 Chad Kelly Mississippi QB 85.8
297 Seth Russell Baylor QB 87
So much for the "everyone-says-Trubs-is-the-top-QB-in-the-class" argument...
Wait for it... 🥷
Expecting a Gipper bomb are we? 🥷
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Where are the QBs, you ask?
22 Deshaun Watson Clemson QB 120.5
26 Mitchell Trubisky North Carolina QB 107
30 Patrick Mahomes II Texas Tech QB 134.6
39 DeShone Kizer Notre Dame QB 123.2
103 Davis Webb California QB 108.3
111 Nathan Peterman Pittsburgh QB 96.6
112 Brad Kaaya Miami (Fla.) QB 96.8
180 Joshua Dobbs Tennessee QB 83
207 Jerod Evans Virginia Tech QB 91.5
239 Chad Kelly Mississippi QB 85.8
297 Seth Russell Baylor QB 87
So much for the "everyone-says-Trubs-is-the-top-QB-in-the-class" argument...
Wait for it... 🥷
Expecting a Gipper bomb are we? 🥷
Expecting a Gipper bomb are we? 🥷
Always...
Meanwhile back at the thread. Thought I'd do a First-Pick completely using my updated board....
Josh Jones was actually there at 3.01, but already had Adams for my SS.
Your score is: 13837 (GRADE: A)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)
Round 1 Pick 12: Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Marcus Sanders-Williams, FS, Utah (A-)
Round 2 Pick 20: Forrest Lamp, OG/OT, Western Kentucky (A)
Round 3 Pick 1: Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (
Round 4 Pick 1: Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami (Fla.) (A)
Round 5 Pick 1: Howard Wilson, CB, Houston (A-)
Round 5 Pick 31: Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming (A-)
Round 5 Pick 37 (COMP): Ryan Switzer, WR, North Carolina (A)
Round 6 Pick 1: Brendan Langley, CB, Lamar (TX)
Round 6 Pick 4: Robert Davis, WR, Georgia State (B-)
Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick
2019 Round 1 Pick
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Where are the QBs, you ask?
22 Deshaun Watson Clemson QB 120.5
26 Mitchell Trubisky North Carolina QB 107
30 Patrick Mahomes II Texas Tech QB 134.6
39 DeShone Kizer Notre Dame QB 123.2
103 Davis Webb California QB 108.3
111 Nathan Peterman Pittsburgh QB 96.6
112 Brad Kaaya Miami (Fla.) QB 96.8
180 Joshua Dobbs Tennessee QB 83
207 Jerod Evans Virginia Tech QB 91.5
239 Chad Kelly Mississippi QB 85.8
297 Seth Russell Baylor QB 87
So much for the "everyone-says-Trubs-is-the-top-QB-in-the-class" argument...
Wait for it... 🥷
Expecting a Gipper bomb are we? 🥷
Expecting a Gipper bomb are we? 🥷
The only bomb would be: Do you want to bet that both MT and Watson go higher than 22 and 26? Put up your tickets to Spain if you dare!
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Ya know, I've been excited for this draft for A WHILE now, but I have to say....the excitement is quickly turning into outright nervousness and even anger. I'm so damn nervous that we'll completely screw it up, and the anger is forming because I'm already seeing the headlines that describe our organization's giant failure. I can just see it now. "Browns remind everyone why they completely suck every year and take a QB at #1!"
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Ya know, I've been excited for this draft for A WHILE now, but I have to say....the excitement is quickly turning into outright nervousness and even anger. I'm so damn nervous that we'll completely screw it up, and the anger is forming because I'm already seeing the headlines that describe our organization's giant failure. I can just see it now. "Browns remind everyone why they completely suck every year and take a QB at #1!"
Ya know, I've been excited for this draft for A WHILE now, but I have to say....the excitement is quickly turning into outright nervousness and even anger. I'm so damn nervous that we'll completely screw it up, and the anger is forming because I'm already seeing the headlines that describe our organization's giant failure. I can just see it now. "Browns remind everyone why they completely suck every year and take a QB at #1!"
Will you leave this board and give up your Browns fan card if that happens? I think you should based on your approach.
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So is this Tavern going to be open so I can communicate with you ladies whilst in my own tavern...?
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So is this Tavern going to be open so I can communicate with you ladies whilst in my own tavern...?
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Like most, I have Myles in a cluster of one at the top. I don't think he's the best football player in this draft right now necessarily and my price for a trade down isn't THAT high, but his ceiling is higher than any other prospect and the bust potential isn't too high so I have to put him in a category of his own.
My next cluster goes like this:
2. Jonathan Allen-DT-Alabama
3. Jamal Adams-S-LSU
4. Solomon Thomas-DE/DT-Stanford
5. Reuben Foster-LB-Alabama: He would be my #2, maybe even #1, if not for his "issues".
6. Haason Reddick-OLB-Temple
6. Malik Hooker-S-Ohio State: His physicality is underrated. Not as sure a tackler as Adams but not scared either.
7. Leonard Fournette-RB-LSU: People like to say "he has no lateral agility." They fail to mention his straight line speed and explosion and power is so far above everyone else that it doesn't matter. He's an animal.
8. Dalvin Cook-RB-FSU: Tempted to put him above Fournette because of his catching ability but the gap in their running ability is just too great. I think this kid could turn into a Le'Veon Bell type-guy that catches several balls per game.
9. Taco Charlton-DE-Michigan: Kid is a beast. Freak athlete and get off for his size.
Group 3:
Derek Barnett-DE-Tennessee: Frankly, his get off is so bad at times I think it may be a stance issue. His acceleration makes up for it though. Great potential.
Antonio Garcia-OT-Troy: Just found this kid. BEST OL IN THE CLASS.
Cam Robinson-OT-Alabama
Ryan Ramczyk-OT-Wisconsin
Mitch Trubisky-QB-UNC: Best QB in this draft
Mike Williams-WR-Clemson
Corey Davis-WR-Western Michigan
Marlon Humphrey-CB-Alabama: Admittedly, I'm no expert on DBs, but I don't see how anyone thinks Lattimore is better than this kid.
Marshon Lattimore-CB-Ohio State
Tre'Davious White-CB-LSU
Chidobe Awuzie-CB-Colorado: Most have this guy lower. I like him. Not as athletic as Lattimore or Conley but adequate and he likes to hit.
K King-CB-Washington: Similar to Awuzie. Great size.
Group 4:
Roderick Johnson-OT-FSU: Super athlete. Needs to work on balance. He's strongish. I like him.
Forrest Lamp-OL-WKU: Not as high on him as some, but still pretty high.
Dion Dawkins-OL-Temple
Gareon Conley-CB-Ohio State
OJ Howard-TE-Alabama: Most would have him in the second group. I think that's overrating him. Not a huge fan.
Desmond King-CB-Iowa
Gerbil Peppers-Whatever-Michigan: Nice tackler. Questionable in coverage. Too small for LB.
Justin Evans-S-Ags: Total homer pick. Only tape I watched was against Alabama. Was this kid hungover for that game? He didn't do anything and didn't look like he wanted to be out there. However, having watched him for two years, I do believe he's a better prospect than the safeties I have below him here.
5:
Julie'n Davenport-OT-Bucknell: Awesome frame. Good feet. Good athlete. Very poor technique. Someone with a good coach and patience can turn him into an All-Pro.
Marcus Williams-S-Utah
Josh Jones-S-NCSU
Zac Cunningham-LB-Vanderbilt: Most have this guy in group 3ish. I don't like him there. Not a great tackler or block shedder in the tape I watched.
Sidney Jones-CB-Washington: I would put him in group 3 if he didn't have injury issues.
6:
Garrett Bolles-OT-Utah
David Sharpe-OT-Florida: Feel the same about him as I do Davenport except Sharpe's ceiling is lower. Very bad technique.
TJ Watt-Edge-Wisconsin: Not a fan of his at all. Looks small out there. He's an ok pass rusher but he'll get swallowed up against the run in the NFL.
Adoree Jackson-CB-USC
7:
Taylor Moten-OT-WMU: Nice size and body composition. Don't like the tape. Unathletic.
Connor McDermott-OT-UCLA: Good feet. Not much strength.
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Tour, what do you think of Garcia and Davenport?
I have to disagree with your assessment of second round safeties. Nothing with Williams or Jones stood out to me. Like I said, it's a homer pick but I like what I've seen from Evans better. I think his tackling issues are technique and discipline related. He loves to lay the big hit so he doesn't wrap up. That's an easy fix.
I also throw in the caveat that I don't really do DBs lol....
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Tour, what do you think of Garcia and Davenport?
I have to disagree with your assessment of second round safeties. Nothing with Williams or Jones stood out to me. Like I said, it's a homer pick but I like what I've seen from Evans better. I think his tackling issues are technique and discipline related. He loves to lay the big hit so he doesn't wrap up. That's an easy fix.
I also throw in the caveat that I don't really do DBs lol....
Tour, what do you think of Garcia and Davenport?
I have to disagree with your assessment of second round safeties. Nothing with Williams or Jones stood out to me. Like I said, it's a homer pick but I like what I've seen from Evans better. I think his tackling issues are technique and discipline related. He loves to lay the big hit so he doesn't wrap up. That's an easy fix.
I also throw in the caveat that I don't really do DBs lol....
lol... I did get a hint from the lack of words after almost every DB was listed.
But that's, OK... I think you are way out to lunch on Taco and Barnett... Call it even?
I like Garcia. He's raw, but I see something there with which to work. His problem is he's being touted as a Day 2 pick and he's not great value there.
I can't say the same for Davenport... this class seems to have a cap at 6'6 for good OL... lone exception is Pocic, who's 6'7 per some sources, but even at 6'6 I think he's too tall to stay at Center.
My Day 3 OT is MSU's Justin Senior. Bit of a blubber-belly, but moves surprisingly well for his girth. Trim him down and muscle him up, and I think you may have something.
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Davenport's athleticism jumped off the tape for me. Add in the fact that he's still skinny and that's something I could work with.
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