QB
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Agree it's better, but more than slightly... both better than Kess came into with us in 2016 and other team situations in 2017.
Starts with there being no pressure to start... at least not Week 1. The job is not going to be thrust upon Kizer; he's going to have the time to grow into it.
Continues with the promise of a better run game owed to the combination of an improved OL and a highly motivated RB in Crow.
And then there's the D-side...
I disagree completely.
The things consistent with the Browns QB situation is that they continue to pull QBs prematurely, the have QB carousel competitions each year, and they have no long-term QB philosophy. Sorry, but throwing 4 pit bulls into a fighting ring is not a way to pick a pet.
This annual QB competition is absolutely a sign that Hue Jackson doesn't know what the fuck he is doing, and instead is playing a game of " throw shit on the wall and hope something sticks". From Hoyer, to Andersen and now Kessler, no team that I can think of has had a quicker trigger to yank a QB, and less patience to develop a QB than the Browns.
Now, you can mentally masturbate about how we are coming together, but there is no arguing that the Browns biggest, most glaring detriment is that they have no long-term QB plan, and no commitment to anything or anyone.
Think about it! That we are even talking about Brock Osweiller is bizarre. Can he play more mistake-free and efficient than the younger guys? Of course. But he isn't the future, he isn't a guy who is going to magically step up and be our franchise guy. I was vehement in my opposition from the day they signed Asshole Tarkenton III.
So the veteran may help us win a few games. At what expense? Keeping the young guys on the bench? How the fuck does keeping Kizer on the bench while Father Time plays in Hue Jackson's QB circle jerk help anything? This is bad management at it's finest. The QB situation will be Hue Jackson's undoing, and he will be fired this year. You can take it to the bank. Hue Jackson is done. Baring a mid season miracle.
Sorry guys, but leadership requires commitment. I keep hearing about how we are rebuilding. Rebuilding what? What the fuck did the Browns V 2.0 ever have that we would even want to rebuild to? If Kizer is the guy we think can be the next great QB, then there is no reason to keep Kessler.Hue Jackson is the embodiment of a jackoff and I would celebrate for the Browns if the fucker died in his sleep. On one hand, you guys are applauding this bullshit of "it isn't about winning", and then on the flip side of the same hand worrying that casting Kizer into the starting role right away will cause us to suck. or that it will some how ruin him.
Seriously, are guys pussies like this in your every day lives? Trial by fire. That is how you find the guy who will lead you. Again the QB carousel is blatantly a sign that Hue Jackson is afraid to stick his whole damned foot into the water.
The right thing to do is make it known from the outset that Kizer is the heir apparent. Training camp and preseason must be about getting the brightest QB prospect as much experience as possible. THAT is how you develop a guy. Nobody ever learned to ride a fucking bike by watching someone else ride it.
Is Kizer the guy? I am here to tell you that the odds of us ever finding out, the odds of him ever being given enough opportunity to fuck up over and over and over so that he can learn, are slim and none. What will happen is that Clueless Hue will have his circle jerk carousel of QBs, while he "analyzes" the dta. Meanwhile the one guy with the most upside will get a hald-assed upbringing and when he IS finally put in, it will be after the other guy fucked up the season, demoralized the fans, and set the stage for Kizer to be brought in under unreasonable expectations.
Quit fucking around. Name Kizer as the guy and for fuck sake, for once in 18 years, pick your hoser and ride the mother fucker out for the entire race.
I disagree completely.
Something that should help us both sleep better at night... that plus the masturbation thing... mental or otherwise...
Hue's first-year, Browns' QB-carousel was not of his own making. Three starters were hurt forcing his hand. Any earlier history is not on him so your "team trigger" argument is irrelevant.
By my count Hue has pulled exactly one QB in one discretionary situation. Kess sat for not quite 2 Qtrs and then started the following game. It was a teaching moment. You may disagree on the method employed, but it was not an arbitrary move.
Also I believe if you look back at Hue's one other HC season in OAK, you'll find it split between two QBs with Palmer taking over for Campbell when he returned to the line up after recovering from an injury and/or Campbell was injured... I forget which it was.
As for our long-term QB plan... I think I see it clear as day.
Forget 2016... it was a year of treading water while a new FO and Staff formed and figured out what the hell they had to work with. They took low-cost shots at a once-great vet who had a injury history and at a kid with a back-up floor and solid starter upside. One still could not stay healthy and is gone, while the other is still here exploring his potential.
On to 2017... turned a 4th round pick into a 2nd and got a once coveted starter as a throw-in, and spent a 2nd, still cheap, on a physically prototypical prospect with as much upside as any QB in the draft with little more uncertainty as any.
Now... am I a Brock backer? No... don't like his "the guy" prospects, but I do like his odds of returning to his Bronco form which once was in pretty high demand. While the demand for him won't get that high again, it still should yield a nice payoff if he shows well in preseason... and if he shows really well and wins our job and becomes "our guy".... then I could handle that... even if I can't see it happening.
Kess? Don't see him as "the guy". For me it's still arm strength questions. Good, solid back-up for another couple years on his rookie contract, maybe longer, if he reups for backup money. If in fact his arm has gotten stronger and he surprises to the upside... just another gift I'm happy to receive.
Am I a Kamp Kizer-er? As much as I was any draft prospect, save Chad "dark-horse" Kelly, once I saw how clean and crisp Kizer's mechanics had gotten after simply working on his "ball security". That one improvement dramatically improved his prospects in my mind. I still do not see him starting Week 1... I don't see him being ready by then. If given a choice, I'm not a fan of "sink or swim" school, but if he comes farther, faster than I see likely and outperforms the alternatives... then sure... start him.
If that's "pussified", so be it.
Personally I've now penciled-in Kizer to start following our Bye week where previously I had him starting game 13. So I've doubled the number of games to gauge where his "the guyness" prospects stand.
And then there's the 2018 draft where I will play QB roulette... how much I spend will be determined by who I like best out of the class plus my rostered choices. However, I also go in knowing that if a QB-needy team (or two) finish in the top selecting spot(s) I have no shot at the pick of the litter, if one prospect separates himself from the field.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
In as much as we'd like to blame Hue for our QB mess...he was pretty much invited into it.
He knew he had crap at QB so he went after RG3 because he knew that The Harvard Think Tank wouldn't let him have Wentz and that they wanted to trade the pick away...which they did. Somehow he convinced them to let him take a stab at Kessler with a 3rd round pick. (he probably had to bribe Sashi)
IMO, to a larger degree than some think, Hue has to coach who the Harvard Think Tank gives him. They decide what's best for Hue.
And then he's got Trigger Finger Haslam to contend with. He's got to find a way to win some games with crap at QB (and WR, OL, the D). Who would've wanted to be him last year? And he's more or less in the same boat THIS year too...except he's now EXPECTED to win some games. The stress of being in must win situations could quite possibly make him switch QB's back and forth to try and save his own skin. (It's hard to build for the future with a trigger fingered owner)
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I disagree completely.
Something that should help us both sleep better at night... that plus the masturbation thing... mental or otherwise...
Hue's first-year, Browns' QB-carousel was not of his own making. Three starters were hurt forcing his hand. Any earlier history is not on him so your "team trigger" argument is irrelevant.
By my count Hue has pulled exactly one QB in one discretionary situation. Kess sat for not quite 2 Qtrs and then started the following game. It was a teaching moment. You may disagree on the method employed, but it was not an arbitrary move.
Also I believe if you look back at Hue's one other HC season in OAK, you'll find it split between two QBs with Palmer taking over for Campbell when he returned to the line up after recovering from an injury and/or Campbell was injured... I forget which it was.
As for our long-term QB plan... I think I see it clear as day.
Forget 2016... it was a year of treading water while a new FO and Staff formed and figured out what the hell they had to work with. They took low-cost shots at a once-great vet who had a injury history and at a kid with a back-up floor and solid starter upside. One still could not stay healthy and is gone, while the other is still here exploring his potential.
On to 2017... turned a 4th round pick into a 2nd and got a once coveted starter as a throw-in, and spent a 2nd, still cheap, on a physically prototypical prospect with as much upside as any QB in the draft with little more uncertainty as any.
Now... am I a Brock backer? No... don't like his "the guy" prospects, but I do like his odds of returning to his Bronco form which once was in pretty high demand. While the demand for him won't get that high again, it still should yield a nice payoff if he shows well in preseason... and if he shows really well and wins our job and becomes "our guy".... then I could handle that... even if I can't see it happening.
Kess? Don't see him as "the guy". For me it's still arm strength questions. Good, solid back-up for another couple years on his rookie contract, maybe longer, if he reups for backup money. If in fact his arm has gotten stronger and he surprises to the upside... just another gift I'm happy to receive.
Am I a Kamp Kizer-er? As much as I was any draft prospect, save Chad "dark-horse" Kelly, once I saw how clean and crisp Kizer's mechanics had gotten after simply working on his "ball security". That one improvement dramatically improved his prospects in my mind. I still do not see him starting Week 1... I don't see him being ready by then. If given a choice, I'm not a fan of "sink or swim" school, but if he comes farther, faster than I see likely and outperforms the alternatives... then sure... start him.
If that's "pussified", so be it.
Personally I've now penciled-in Kizer to start following our Bye week where previously I had him starting game 13. So I've doubled the number of games to gauge where his "the guyness" prospects stand.
And then there's the 2018 draft where I will play QB roulette... how much I spend will be determined by who I like best out of the class plus my rostered choices. However, I also go in knowing that if a QB-needy team (or two) finish in the top selecting spot(s) I have no shot at the pick of the litter, if one prospect separates himself from the field.
By my count Hue has pulled exactly one QB in one discretionary situation. Kess sat for not quite 2 Qtrs and then started the following game. It was a teaching moment. You may disagree on the method employed, but it was not an arbitrary move.
Also I believe if you look back at Hue's one other HC season in OAK, you'll find it split between two QBs with Palmer taking over for Campbell when he returned to the line up after recovering from an injury and/or Campbell was injured... I forget which it was.
Great point on Kess T. In Oakland, the oddity is that was the browns that went into Oakland with the lead & broke Campbell's collarbone leading to Palmer finishing us off in a come back victory for Oakland. sound familiar? just to add to your opinion. It's about time we keep 1 QB standing & healthy. 14 OL offsides & 5 illegal shifts could simply be cut in half by not having to learn 3 different QB's cadence's at the line..Also give me the QB that has the gonads to change Hue's play call at line without killing a timeout
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Browns WR Kenny Britt on DeShone Kizer: 'He's going to be one of the great ones'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/07/browns_kenny_britt_on_deshone.html
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Browns WR Kenny Britt on DeShone Kizer: 'He's going to be one of the great ones'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/07/browns_kenny_britt_on_deshone.html
Browns WR Kenny Britt on DeShone Kizer: 'He's going to be one of the great ones'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/07/browns_kenny_britt_on_deshone.html
Oh, well, lets just get him sized up now.
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Yeah, maybe Britt says that about ALL the boys....I don't know Britt from a snowbank. But he's been around a while and obviously played with a BUNCH of QB's. It's good to hear that he feels good about Kizer at this early stage.
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Yeah, maybe Britt says that about ALL the boys....I don't know Britt from a snowbank. But he's been around a while and obviously played with a BUNCH of QB's. It's good to hear that he feels good about Kizer at this early stage.
Yeah, maybe Britt says that about ALL the boys....I don't know Britt from a snowbank. But he's been around a while and obviously played with a BUNCH of QB's. It's good to hear that he feels good about Kizer at this early stage.
How manny good QB's has Britt ever played with?
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If you read the article, then you'll see about three different conditional statements led by "if he keeps progressing."
And if I had kept growing I might have been an NBA Center...
But all-in-all it's better than Britt saying "He's terrible. He has no shot."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think Osweiler is trade bait, Kessler is too small and won't stay healthy. I predict Kizer is the starter long before the bye week. But it's too soon for a serious discussion considering Hue Jackson hasn't got a clue either.
I need to see preseason games
I still remember when Isiah Crowell came out of nowhere in the fourth preseason game his rookie year and he was undrafted.
Anything can happen!
GO BROWNS??? 8-8
DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD! -
I think Osweiler is trade bait, Kessler is too small and won't stay healthy. I predict Kizer is the starter long before the bye week. But it's too soon for a serious discussion considering Hue Jackson hasn't got a clue either.
I need to see preseason games
I still remember when Isiah Crowell came out of nowhere in the fourth preseason game his rookie year and he was undrafted.
Anything can happen!
GO BROWNS??? 8-8
I need to see preseason games
Stop being sensible.
Every year...from May to August...our team is vastly improved. The new guys are great and the old guys are better.
THEN WE PLAY A PRESEASON GAME. And we all come crashing back down to earth. "We've got some things to clean up."
THEN we play a regular season game...and it's 'Holy shit. We suck.'
I think I read that it's been 13 years since we've won on opening day. - It feels longer than that.
I said at the top of this thread, We'll only go as far as our QB can take us. And that's been pretty much true since our return. (except for the year that Dennis Northcutt dropped an EASY pass to keep us from winning our only playoff game)
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Kizer should start the most games this year, if not all of them -- Can't really say all of them for a Browns QB, but yeah, if he's healthy he should. I think he will start Wk1 because he has more talent than Kessler, and Osweiler isn't in their plans.
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I need to see preseason games
Stop being sensible.
Every year...from May to August...our team is vastly improved. The new guys are great and the old guys are better.
THEN WE PLAY A PRESEASON GAME. And we all come crashing back down to earth. "We've got some things to clean up."
THEN we play a regular season game...and it's 'Holy shit. We suck.'
I think I read that it's been 13 years since we've won on opening day. - It feels longer than that.
I said at the top of this thread, We'll only go as far as our QB can take us. And that's been pretty much true since our return. (except for the year that Dennis Northcutt dropped an EASY pass to keep us from winning our only playoff game)
What up, Mike...
I've been more in the Kizer-later Camp, but have moved his 1st start up from Game 13 to Game 9, following the bye. Trying to strike a balance between getting him ready and seeing enough to evaluate him in live action. But if his progress being reported is real and continues, you may end up being right about Week 1.
Osweiler's a tricky one... have to get him enough reps, good reps, to enhance his trade value without winning over our fan base.
Going to be an interesting camp.
I said at the top of this thread, We'll only go as far as our QB can take us. And that's been pretty much true since our return. (except for the year that Dennis Northcutt dropped an EASY pass to keep us from winning our only playoff game)
Really not sure when that last applied to us. We've had so many limiting factors since our return and they've not all been addressed going into 2017.
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Kizer should start the most games this year, if not all of them -- Can't really say all of them for a Browns QB, but yeah, if he's healthy he should. I think he will start Wk1 because he has more talent than Kessler, and Osweiler isn't in their plans.
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From what I saw at training camp, the QB race is a two horse race and Kessler is still stuck in his stall. Brock is ahead of all three, Kizer not too far behind. I could see Kizer passing Brock by the end of preseason. Kessler is still holding the ball too damn long. Brock throws are tight and on a rope with on time delivery. Kizer sails a few but get the majority where they need to be.
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I think Osweiler is trade bait, Kessler is too small and won't stay healthy. I predict Kizer is the starter long before the bye week. But it's too soon for a serious discussion considering Hue Jackson hasn't got a clue either.
I need to see preseason games
I still remember when Isiah Crowell came out of nowhere in the fourth preseason game his rookie year and he was undrafted.
Anything can happen!
GO BROWNS??? 8-8
I think Osweiler is trade bait, Kessler is too small and won't stay healthy. I predict Kizer is the starter long before the bye week. But it's too soon for a serious discussion considering Hue Jackson hasn't got a clue either.
I need to see preseason games
I still remember when Isiah Crowell came out of nowhere in the fourth preseason game his rookie year and he was undrafted.
Anything can happen!
GO BROWNS 8-8
but didn't crow get into some kind of trouble in collage ? as to why he was not drafted
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From what I saw at training camp, the QB race is a two horse race and Kessler is still stuck in his stall. Brock is ahead of all three, Kizer not too far behind. I could see Kizer passing Brock by the end of preseason. Kessler is still holding the ball too damn long. Brock throws are tight and on a rope with on time delivery. Kizer sails a few but get the majority where they need to be.
Thanks for the report from the trenches.From what I saw at training camp, the QB race is a two horse race and Kessler is still stuck in his stall. Brock is ahead of all three, Kizer not too far behind. I could see Kizer passing Brock by the end of preseason. Kessler is still holding the ball too damn long. Brock throws are tight and on a rope with on time delivery. Kizer sails a few but get the majority where they need to be.
How many practices did you observe? Haven't heard many say Osweiler in the lead
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