Honest no fanboy discussion about our front 7

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

In the course of NFL history it is usual. It has become less usual lately, as, I think, teams have become more desperate and less patient to wait for their high draft pick QBs to prove themselves. See the 2017 Cleveland Browns.

LondonBrown

@hoorta said:

, I just hope Kizer was mostly Sashi & DePo's idea

Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good.

Tour2ma

@londonbrown said:

Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good.

I'll take that bet for a pint... I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

2016:

Goff did sit, but because he had real issues adapting to play calling and getting under Center. So that's one...

Wentz flat won the job. He made Bradford expendable plus Philly still had Chase Daniels as backup.

2015: Both Winston and Mariotta started.

2014: Bortles (a #3) started.

2012: Both Luck and Griffin started.

2011: Newton started.

2010: Bradford started.

2009: Stafford started.

I think that pretty much covers recent history of 1's and 2's.... and a #3...

My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?

LondonBrown

@tour2ma said:

I'll take that bet for a pint... I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

Pint it is

Analytics guide I had pre draft, what you said were his analytical issues are just eye test, analytics is success against historical data

Tour2ma

Interesting results, but I don't see anything about evaluating the talent around him... that said, I'll buy.

It is interesting that his Ideal Scheme is Coryell... emphasis on vertical game is one thing it has in common with Hue.

hoorta

@texasag1969 said:

My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?

We were just talking about QBs picked in the top 5 or so Ag. Three QBs with the #22 pick- three flops. If we ever end up there again- I say trade out of it.

@tour2ma said:

Interesting results, but I don't see anything about evaluating the talent around him... that said, I'll buy.

It is interesting that his Ideal Scheme is Coryell... emphasis on vertical game is one thing it has in common with Hue.

Ha my "Eye Test" analysis of Kizer jives with that bottom line rating of his potential London posted. I absolutely hated the pick, and if you remember- I was pretty vocal about it. Didn't like at all anything I saw of him at Notre Dame. I hope he proves me wrong, I'm tired of the QB revolving door- but if Deshone bombs- it's "Suck for Sam". Though I think at this point the Jets are playing that game.

Clevfan4life

How does pff say our o line is 2nd best when the d line has approx x100 talent?

Ghoolie

@hoorta said:

Ghoolie changes direction like the wind. We have him painted in a corner with his opinion on Lynch. "Can't be evaluated yet" after one full season, but Garrett's a bust before the season starts. ?

I NEVER changed direction. YOu want me to credit Hue for having to learn what I told everyone on draft day? Hue IS a jackoff. I never said Kizer is the answer. What I said was, he is the ONLY QB who has the potential to be the answer, the franchise guy. This isn't about endorsing Kizer, it is about this fuck off organization not knowking how to make the right call from the beginning.

Look, you Clevtards, The entire Browns organization is doing NOW, after wasting how many weeks, what I said they should be doing from day one. Indstead of sending a strong message from DAY ONE....................... Kizer is our guy.................. Hue instead says.................... Kizer is our guy because the fuck holes I started looked like shit............ just like Ghoolie told us.

Ghoolie

@londonbrown said:

What? Less than 10 days ago were adamant Hue was a jack off because he wasn't starting Kizer !?

Yes, you limey train-puller. Hue IS a jackoff. What fucking part of the English language turns you brain into shit? Follow along, I will type S L O W L Y for you...........

1) I don't believe Kizer is worth a good shit

2) Kizer is STILL better than anyone else we have

3) Only Kizer has skills that COULD make me eat crow and develop into a franchise QB

4) I said it from before training camp, Kizer needs to be introduced as THE GUY...................... from day one................... Instead? We introduce him AFTER the garbage ahead of him played like the shit they are.

SO now, we have the last game of preseason and Kizer has how much experience with the first team.?

HUE needs to be fired, He is a failure. A Jackoff.

Ghoolie

@boo-fagley said:

How can experts even form an opinion on this latest draft after only 3 pre season games let alone someone with 30 years experience watching football on TV?

Its also plausible that Williams is holding Garret back somewhat. Turn him loose on Pittsburgh then see what he brings to the table.

Ive lost all faith in Ghoolie and his predictions. Appears that Tribsky will lose the starting job to Glennon. I just found out about another of his favorites Paxton Lynch. He tells me that Brady is finished.

OH shit..................... I forgot that one.................... The whole NFL is against poor Myles Garrett and the refs are allowing him to be held.

AHHHHHh...... that explains why the fucking guy is making no impact or sacks. Garrett B L O W S

LondonBrown

@ghoolie said:

Yes, you limey train-puller.

Haha I've long wondered what limey meant as an insult but limey train puller? This, I need to know.

TexasAg1969

@boo-fagley said:

Youre about to find out in a week when the real bullets start flying if Garret is the real deal or not.

Something I've said since the day we drafted him, it's not all about Garrett. It's about how much attention he draws away from the rest of the defenders so they can make the plays. So far that has worked well in preseason. This UNIT just needs to keep playing the way they played all pre-season.

Ibleedbrown

@londonbrown said:

Haha I've long wondered what limey meant as an insult but limey train puller? This, I need to know.

Clearly it's a compliment. It means you are free from scurvy, and strong enough to pull trains

l'm sure l'm not alone in saying l envy that. Scurvy really sucks.

Tour2ma

@boo-fagley said:

Its not a rock concert where AD/DC opened for Coldplay.

Did that actually happen? Would be right up there with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks opening for Steppenwolf... (Fall, '71 in Cleveland Public Auditorium... it wasn't pretty...).

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Did that actually happen? Would be right up there with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks opening for Steppenwolf... (Fall, '71 in Cleveland Public Auditorium... it wasn't pretty...).

James Taylor opening for The Who. The crowd booed him. Pete Townshend admonished the crowd for doing so. (I still would have booed James Taylor)

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

Did that actually happen? Would be right up there with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks opening for Steppenwolf... (Fall, '71 in Cleveland Public Auditorium... it wasn't pretty...).

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage.

@the-gipper said:

James Taylor opening for The Who. The crowd booed him. Pete Townshend admonished the crowd for doing so. (I still would have booed James Taylor)

If that was the same one I was at you forgot the opening warm up band. The James Gang with Joe Walsh. Taylor was sandwiched in the middle. BTW, The Who put on an incredible show. The energy had everyone standing the entire concert.

There were some strange combos that time frame. Before the Eagles hit it big they were warmup bands for groups like Humble Pie, and (I think) Black Sabbath.

The Gipper

@hoorta said:

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage.

If that was the same one I was at you forgot the opening warm up band. The James Gang with Joe Walsh. Taylor was sandwiched in the middle. BTW, The Who put on an incredible show. The energy had everyone standing the entire concert.

There were some strange combos that time frame. Before the Eagles hit it big they were warmup bands for groups like Humble Pie, and (I think) Black Sabbath.

I was not there....I just heard about it. I think the promotors screwed up by putting the milktoast Taylor in the middle of those two acts, if that is what happened. If they had lead off with Taylor it would not have been so bad for him.

Nevertheless...I was never much of a James Taylor fan, so I wasn't going to cry any tears for him.

Tour2ma

@hoorta said:

There were some strange combos that time frame. Before the Eagles hit it big they were warmup bands for groups like Humble Pie, and (I think) Black Sabbath.

Eagles also opened for The Mahavishnu Orchestra/ Yes... and it worked that time in the Rubber Bowl.

@hoorta said:

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage.

Ditto... and then Billy Bass told us off...

Sat a few rows up in the right hand balcony maybe a third of the way away from the stage.

Plus as in your James Taylor example Dan Hicks was the 2nd act following Redbone who had revved the audience up just a bit too much for Dan... not that I was a Dan fan in any case.

Ghoolie

@londonbrown said:

Haha I've long wondered what limey meant as an insult but limey train puller? This, I need to know.

it IS a compliment. You don't know why limey is an insult? Back in the day, English and Irish sailors suffered skeletal and muscular weakness due to a lack of vitamin C. They were given lemons and limes and the problem corrected itself. The name "limey" was used to make fun. Train puller? It means you pull a train.......... a long line of guys....taking turns to fuck you in the ass.

I say this, of course with the utmost respect for you.