Kizer or Hogan
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I think that Peppers could contribute more on the Offensive side of the ball than what he is giving to Special Teams.
He clearly fair caught one I thought should have been allowed to go into the endzone. He's done average on kick returns and been just okay on Punt Returns.
I think that Duke Johnson is a playmaker.
QB is a skill position and I believe Hogan is a playmaker.
I think that all of our WRs have a shot at being good if they are given the opportunity. They are not getting a chance that chance with Kizer. A Quarterback needs to be like a point guard on the basketball court. They dish the rock and make assists happen. You would guys agree that some Point Guards are better at getting the ball out to the playmakers better than others? Why is football so different.
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PoG, I see under interests you like to write poems.
Can you write a nice poem about Hogan? I think this board would enjoy it.
PoG, I see under interests you like to write poems. Can you write a nice poem about Hogan? I think this board would enjoy it.
An ode to Hoge?
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Have to admit Hogan looked really good against the Bengals' 2nd teamers... /s
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans?
We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans?
We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.
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At this point, I'm all for Hogan coming in and starting the next four games or so. Let Kizer catch his breath and learn some things from the time he's had so far.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hogan played better than Kizer. He has more NFL experience than Kizer does, and had more college experience too.
Doesn't change that I don't see Hogan being much more than Kessler 2.0.
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Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.
Marvin Lewis telling Jackson "don't let them quit on you" is damning bad for Jackson's future. The coaching community doesn't believe in him.
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Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.
Marvin Lewis telling Jackson "don't let them quit on you" is damning bad for Jackson's future. The coaching community doesn't believe in him.
Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.
Marvin Lewis telling Jackson "don't let them quit on you" is damning bad for Jackson's future. The coaching community doesn't believe in him.
cowpoop hue has no say in the draft if any of them had a clue at all they would have drafted wentz or trub
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Hue absolutely has a say. His say on QB has been the deciding answer except for Hogan. Joel Berry likely has the highest say on the draft inside the FO outside QB. Wentz does not impress me. His pure throwing talent is weak. That is why Hue passed. Trub was supported inside by some of the Browns FO, which means a lot, but has not played yet and that probably is not a good sign this year for him. The way Hue gushes over Kizer and the lie it is sickens me.
Hue has made his own bed. He has made his own way. He was a bad hire from the start and I said so 18 months ago.
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I am all for giving Hogan a shot. Hue only pulled Kize because Cincy started going with back-up;s on D and didn't want Kizer to look like the Sheet he is against the 2nd team.
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Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.
Marvin Lewis telling Jackson "don't let them quit on you" is damning bad for Jackson's future. The coaching community doesn't believe in him.
Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Speculation, at best. I wouldn't expect a head coach to speak anything but positive about any QB the team signed or drafted.
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That said I'm down to see Hogan start this week against the Jets...This team desperately needs a win, and the offense has looked better in the brief time Hogan has played so far.
Kizer has great physical talent and high potential upside, but it was pretty well known that he would be a work-in-progress when he was drafted. He shouldn't have gotten thrust into the starting role on day 1
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only 5 more interceptions and kizer has tied the number of interceptions thrown by the team last year. say what you will about Britt and the deflection INT but that ball was far far too fast and the spiral was so wobbly, In super slow mo looked like it was tumbling.
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agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....
agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....
Only watched a minute or two of Kizer's post game presser. He's beaten down already. Agreed, it's time for Hogan's Heroes to see what he's got. Kizer can sit and watch. I'm already sick of seeing Deshone do a great Akilli Smith impersonation, throwing passes into the dirt, or so far over receivers heads even a guy with jumping ability like LeBron couldn't get a handle on them.
I thought the Jets were "sucking for Sam", at the rate the Browns are playing, one of the top 2018 QBs will be in easy reach.
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The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans?
We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.
The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans? We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.
Anytime you want to compare what we "get" about football relative to each other... just let me know.
agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....
Anything Hogan might bring would simply be a sugar high. Kizer has been bad, but... as I have written elsewhere... not the same level of bad in the same areas week to week. #babysteps
Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.
Hue absolutely has a say. His say on QB has been the deciding answer except for Hogan. Joel Berry likely has the highest say on the draft inside the FO outside QB. Wentz does not impress me. His pure throwing talent is weak. That is why Hue passed. Trub was supported inside by some of the Browns FO, which means a lot, but has not played yet and that probably is not a good sign this year for him.
Curious as to where you are getting your inside info... Specifically Kizer being a Hue pick deserving of grouping with Kess and RG3, and Berry's "say weighting".
Hue was hired on Jan. 3, 2016. Depo on Jan 5. They came in together. Jimmah was involved, but I suspect Sashi (and Dee) were just as involved and that Hue was made aware of the FO direction and Depo's pending hire. Regardless I'm sure Hue is a participant in all roster moves, albeit with more QB "input" as you suggest. Ours is a consensus process. Hue is part of that process. He may well hold more "sway" in QB discussions, but he has no added authority than that sway affords him. At least that's my take based upon years of work with organizational dynamics.
FWIW I do agree on your general QB takes, if not your basis. Bears have announced that Trubs get the Week 5 start, so the feedback loop begins Sunday. I think he'll be used much the same as Wentz was early in 2016 and so far this year... a lot of simplification... a lot of designed movement. Something Kizer can still benefit from.
Kizer has great physical talent and high potential upside, but it was pretty well known that he would be a work-in-progress when he was drafted. He shouldn't have gotten thrust into the starting role on day 1
Agree, but despite Hue begging no one else in the QB room stood up and took the job. It was supposed to be Kess'... he turned it down. It was handed to Brock... he dropped it like a hot potato. And surprise of surprises the stage did not look too big for our rookie.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans? We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.
Anytime you want to compare what we "get" about football relative to each other... just let me know.
agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....
Anything Hogan might bring would simply be a sugar high. Kizer has been bad, but... as I have written elsewhere... not the same level of bad in the same areas week to week. #babysteps
Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).
Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.
Hue absolutely has a say. His say on QB has been the deciding answer except for Hogan. Joel Berry likely has the highest say on the draft inside the FO outside QB. Wentz does not impress me. His pure throwing talent is weak. That is why Hue passed. Trub was supported inside by some of the Browns FO, which means a lot, but has not played yet and that probably is not a good sign this year for him.
Curious as to where you are getting your inside info... Specifically Kizer being a Hue pick deserving of grouping with Kess and RG3, and Berry's "say weighting".
Hue was hired on Jan. 3, 2016. Depo on Jan 5. They came in together. Jimmah was involved, but I suspect Sashi (and Dee) were just as involved and that Hue was made aware of the FO direction and Depo's pending hire. Regardless I'm sure Hue is a participant in all roster moves, albeit with more QB "input" as you suggest. Ours is a consensus process. Hue is part of that process. He may well hold more "sway" in QB discussions, but he has no added authority than that sway affords him. At least that's my take based upon years of work with organizational dynamics.
FWIW I do agree on your general QB takes, if not your basis. Bears have announced that Trubs get the Week 5 start, so the feedback loop begins Sunday. I think he'll be used much the same as Wentz was early in 2016 and so far this year... a lot of simplification... a lot of designed movement. Something Kizer can still benefit from.
Kizer has great physical talent and high potential upside, but it was pretty well known that he would be a work-in-progress when he was drafted. He shouldn't have gotten thrust into the starting role on day 1
Agree, but despite Hue begging no one else in the QB room stood up and took the job. It was supposed to be Kess'... he turned it down. It was handed to Brock... he dropped it like a hot potato. And surprise of surprises the stage did not look too big for our rookie.
Agree, but despite Hue begging no one else in the QB room stood up and took the job. It was supposed to be Kess'... he turned it down. It was handed to Brock... he dropped it like a hot potato. And surprise of surprises the stage did not look too big for our rookie.
Which one?
Game one, I agree not. After that- regression (probably to be expected) every game since.
I'll just throw this out there- have there ever been any long term QB successes in the NFL if the guy had accuracy issues? Seriously, do you think Deshone can improve in that area? I'm doubting it.
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