The Process Poll
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It's said that you can't do your job if you can't trust every one around you to do their job.
BK....Learning to Scramble.
And scrambling is the opposite of running.
Every true Browns fan should read Bernie's book. It really is insightful. He's a true winner. God bless him.
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Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.
Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.
I'm beginning to believe that he can't read...period
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Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.
Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.
This is not for the Haslams, this is just so we can see what TBB members think about the Process, since they're not doing any kind of poll with the fanbase. Also, there are many opinions that are shared in the threads, so I just wanted to quantify how's the general vibe.
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So Jim Haslam is from Tennessee.
So, if he married his wife in Kentucky, then divorced her in Ohio....are they still brother and sister?????..
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Hue Jackson say's he looking for leaders to step up on Offense. It's hard when the player's champion is sitting at 3rd string at QB.
Play Kevin Hogan MAN. Crazy Kevin is the leader on this team, he's almost the elder statesman on the team and an excellent leader for a young football team.
They players will follow Kevin to victories if Hue would just stop trying to cram Kizer down their throat. It's pretty simple bud, it's not rocket science as much as you guys would like to make it out to be. Kevin had ONE chance to make an impression and the pressure got to him that Texans game. It happens. But wake up to reality, the buzzer has been going off for weeks.
Hue Jackson say's he looking for leaders to step up on Offense. It's hard when the player's champion is sitting at 3rd string at QB.
Play Kevin Hogan MAN. Crazy Kevin is the leader on this team, he's almost the elder statesman on the team and an excellent leader for a young football team.
They players will follow Kevin to victories if Hue would just stop trying to cram Kizer down their throat. It's pretty simple bud, it's not rocket science as much as you guys would like to make it out to be. Kevin had ONE chance to make an impression and the pressure got to him that Texans game. It happens. But wake up to reality, the buzzer has been going off for weeks.
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Free agency starts in March. The analytics group favors signing quarterback Tyrod Taylor, who is destined to be let go by the Buffalo Bills. Jackson favors signing Cincinnati Bengals free agent AJ McCarron.
After all the losses, all the draft-day snubs of bona-fide franchise quarterback hopefuls, after all the trade-downs and stockpiling of assets, after all the mis-evaluations and nonsensical SPARQ score comparisons, after all the Fantasy Football conversation that goes on there, the Browns’ next quarterback comes down to these two unspectacular choices?
The draft season comes next. USC’s Sam Darnold, like other Trojan quarterbacks before him, decides to return to the safe haven of college football. UCLA’s Josh Rosen, through his representation, informs the Browns he will not play for them.
The Haslams stay out of the way, entertain on football Sundays and pay the bills. That is what the good owners do.
I have to hope this is a bunch of unsubstantiated Grossi BS. Mr. Poison Pen at work....
Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron might push me over the edge. Draft Rosen anyway, let the chips fall where they may....
I have to hope this is a bunch of unsubstantiated Grossi BS. Mr. Poison Pen at work....
Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron might push me over the edge. Draft Rosen anyway, let the chips fall where they may....
These things have been reported other places too. Sign a carpart, draft a running QB in Jackson. It's not just Grossi.
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What we should do is demote Hue Jackson to OC. He can do okay if that's all he has to worry about and doesn't get the say on who plays. The HC should give him the players and say, make THIS work, period. That is his only chance at this point. He doesn't make the right decisions on who plays and where and when. The Head Coach should have his hand on both the Offense and Defense, hell even some special teams here and there, but Hue doesn't have a clue what is happening on the defensive side of the ball.
If Hue won't take the OC job then tell him to take a hike and good luck finding another team willing to give a 1-25 HC another chance after the debacle that follows him from gameday to gameday.
What we should do is demote Hue Jackson to OC. He can do okay if that's all he has to worry about and doesn't get the say on who plays. The HC should give him the players and say, make THIS work, period. That is his only chance at this point. He doesn't make the right decisions on who plays and where and when. The Head Coach should have his hand on both the Offense and Defense, hell even some special teams here and there, but Hue doesn't have a clue what is happening on the defensive side of the ball.
If Hue won't take the OC job then tell him to take a hike and good luck finding another team willing to give a 1-25 HC another chance after the debacle that follows him from gameday to gameday.
You are out of your fukcing mind. Seriously bro, what universe do you live in? No goddamned HC is going to take a demotion to OC and then stay on the team he once was HC. Why even post schidt like this? This is not something that is ever going to happen, it is not even a good idea. WTF man, your thoughts here are goofier than the Sumo thread.
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Good poll, Nero... but unfortunately I cannot answer a single question in it without forcing a fit that does not represent my takes.
1. Who would you say is the principal responsible for the team’s current situation?
My answer has to be, with the possible exception of the players, "All of the above", because the FO, Ownership and, yes, even the Staff signed onto this approach.
2. What would you do about the Front Office?
While "Nothing" comes close here, my unrestricted answer is, "Let them continue to make the changes they deem appropriate." Replacing under-performing Scouts and players heads this list something your second alternative hints at, but is too broad.
3. What would you do about the Coaching Staff?
Here again, "Add an OC (etc.)..." comes close, but I can't be that prescriptive at this point. "Focus Hue on his HC duties by adding staff," is about as prescriptive as I can get. OC is a potential route, but so too is a Bench Coach or maybe a Special Assistant. Have to get Hue off his "control thing"; his hands out of at least one Offensive pie. Right now he is:
- HC
- Staff Representative to the Consensus Process
- OC
- Playcaller
- Clock Manager
- QB "Guru"
I tell him, "You are the HC of this team and, as such, the Staff's rep to the process. You can pick one more role."
Told you this poll stuff would be easy...
Good poll, Nero... but unfortunately I cannot answer a single question in it without forcing a fit that does not represent my takes.
That's my take also.
Depot & Sashi agreed that Wentz would be crap....so...I'd flush them both.
I don't like Hue's game-day decision making......so I'd have already been talking with people about being my next coach. If I can't get anyone to commit that they'd be my coach then I'd keep Hue for another year.
PoeticG - What we should do is demote Hue Jackson to OC.
Man-o-man. There just isn't any defending that statement......unless you're talking about Hue going to another team...which you aren't.
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Once Grossi established the false dichotomy at the beginning of his article, the entire rest of it was a monumental waste of time. Yes we want to win, no we don’t care about scraping out 3 wins a year at the expense of the roster construction we’re trying to accomplish.
If you’re going to be against this FO, at least argue against what they’re trying to do, not some straw man you made up.
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MOD EDIT: This was written by Tony Grossi, take it FWIW
Dire times: Since Hue Jackson brought it up, I ask: What is the Browns’ plan?
Is it self-preservation?
Keep rolling draft picks and salary cap room into the future, so that, in the name of continuity and stability, and by taking advantage of the owners’ trauma of being ridiculed for blowing it up again, everybody’s job is secured until next year, which never comes?
Or is the plan to win?
If the plan is to win, then the plan is not working. Check that. The plan is failing in such an astonishing degree that it threatens to eradicate the very fabric that bonds Cleveland to the Browns.
Generations of Browns fans are beyond disgust. They are succumbing to poisonous apathy.
In 33 years of chronicling the Browns, of warring with owners and executives and coaches, of arguing for the rightful place in the Pro Football Hall of Fame for some of the franchise’s best players, and arguing against the inclusion of one owner, of reporting on some of the city’s most heart-breaking sports moments and some of the most exhilarating victories, I can honestly say these are the most worrisome times for this franchise since Art Modell absconded the last one to Baltimore.
When Peyton Manning visited Cleveland last month for an undisclosed reason -- a Browns source said it was unrelated to the team -- Manning casually asked a native of the area about the mood of Browns fans.
I don’t know if Manning was just making conversation or if he was trying to gauge what he might be getting into if he accepted Jimmy Haslam’s assumed open invitation to rescue him and the rest of us from the incompetence that has extinguished hope in this once-great, now-tarnished franchise.
Shame on the Haslams for sinking this precious Cleveland asset to the lowest point in its history, infinitely lower than even Randy Lerner achieved.
Make it stop: I have this new recurring nightmare.
The Haslams decide to give their undefined plan another year, mostly out of fear of ridicule for blowing it up again but also because they have no alternative.
Free agency starts in March. The analytics group favors signing quarterback Tyrod Taylor, who is destined to be let go by the Buffalo Bills. Jackson favors signing Cincinnati Bengals free agent AJ McCarron.
After all the losses, all the draft-day snubs of bona-fide franchise quarterback hopefuls, after all the trade-downs and stockpiling of assets, after all the mis-evaluations and nonsensical SPARQ score comparisons, after all the Fantasy Football conversation that goes on there, the Browns’ next quarterback comes down to these two unspectacular choices?
It’s a knock-down, drag-out fight – par for the course in that toxic building. All the network insiders detail the in-fighting breathlessly. One of them wins, one of them loses. It doesn’t matter which.
The draft season comes next. USC’s Sam Darnold, like other Trojan quarterbacks before him, decides to return to the safe haven of college football. UCLA’s Josh Rosen, through his representation, informs the Browns he will not play for them.
The Browns, of course, believe him and meekly trade the first overall pick in the draft. Analytics sites will praise them for this, of course.
And with their second No. 1 pick, the one acquired from Houston when Sashi Brown hand-delivered Deshaun Watson to friend Rick Smith, the Texans’ GM, the Browns select …
Please, no …
… Heisman Trophy favorite Baker Mayfield.
The crotch-grabbing Johnny Manziel impersonator has Cleveland Browns written all over him, right? Can’t you see Haslam falling for this punk? All it takes is a well-versed text from Mayfield to an underling to make it happen.
Is this our future if the Haslams keep status quo?
Recuse yourselves, please: No one is to blame for this state of the Browns other than the Haslams. Since Dee wants to be considered an owner, she must take responsibility, too. She fell for the outside-the-box, analytics-over-football approach pitched by the head-hunter search firm Korn Ferry, too.
One of the fundamental flaws of the Haslam organization is having everybody report to them. Sashi Brown has one Haslam ear, Jackson the other. Nobody can clearly define what Paul DePodesta does, working from LaJolla, CA. Everyone wonders which Haslam will have more influence on what happens next. The set-up engenders disagreement, ego-clashing, unaccountability and ultimately Machiavellianism.
What the Haslams need to do is fill the void of team president with someone they trust – if that person exists -- and have that person reconstruct the organization for them.
The president should have proven experience in the National Football League – not baseball, basketball, hockey, truck-stopping, or anything else.
The president should hire a general manager and the president should hire a coach.
It is not relevant which one is hired first – coach or GM. The vision of the person hired first is what’s important. And the first hire should contribute to the second hire, but not mandate who it is. It’s the president’s call.
The president then presides over the bilateral football organization, rules over disputes and holds each office to its task.
The president establishes the culture and enforces it.
The Haslams stay out of the way, entertain on football Sundays and pay the bills. That is what the good owners do.
Dire times: Since Hue Jackson brought it up, I ask: What is the Browns’ plan?
Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack. Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus. - That was brilliance right there.
And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB. All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB. - That's EVALUATING brilliance being demonstrated.
...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?
It was an interesting concept. I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box. But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.
Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years. Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I went to McDonalds today. They fukced up my order. I am going back tomorrow. This is what a rebuild looks like.
I went to McDonalds today. They fukced up my order. I am going back tomorrow. This is what a rebuild looks like.
More like I'll go back to the same Mickey Ds when they give me change for a five after I hand them a ten, and the dumb a$$ Manager sticks up for the employee. Or the window goober says, "you mean I have to go in the back to get you a pack of salt? When I asked for one.
Not making this up Tom. & how hard is it to figure out Double Cheeseburger, no mustard?
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Dire times: Since Hue Jackson brought it up, I ask: What is the Browns’ plan?
Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack. Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus. - That was brilliance right there.
And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB. All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB. - That's EVALUATING brilliance being demonstrated.
...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?
It was an interesting concept. I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box. But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.
Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years. Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.
Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack. Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus. - That was brilliance right there.
And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB. All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB. - That's EVALUATING brilliance being demonstrated.
...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?
It was an interesting concept. I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box. But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.
Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years. Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.
Coleman is as good as Schwartz. Tretter slightly worse than Mack though Mack was not good in his last year here at all. Zeitler is better than Greco. The other two are stillthere. What exactly are you complaining about?
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Dire times: Since Hue Jackson brought it up, I ask: What is the Browns’ plan?
Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack. Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus. - That was brilliance right there.
And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB. All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB. - That's EVALUATING brilliance being demonstrated.
...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?
It was an interesting concept. I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box. But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.
Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years. Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.
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The process.
Our record: 1-25
Worst ever over 2 seasons:
76-77 Bucs 2-26
08-09 Lions 2-30
Worst ever over 3 seasons:
07-08-09 Rams 6-42
Good job, everyone... /s
Oh, for a more fair comparison with the Bucs we need to take out our last 2 results of last year, and presto, we're 0-24.
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The answer to the poll is very simple. The dumb crook Jimmy H is most to blame.
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I went to McDonalds today. They fukced up my order. I am going back tomorrow. This is what a rebuild looks like.
More like I'll go back to the same Mickey Ds when they give me change for a five after I hand them a ten, and the dumb a$$ Manager sticks up for the employee. Or the window goober says, "you mean I have to go in the back to get you a pack of salt? When I asked for one.
Not making this up Tom. & how hard is it to figure out Double Cheeseburger, no mustard?
More like I'll go back to the same Mickey Ds when they give me change for a five after I hand them a ten, and the dumb a$$ Manager sticks up for the employee. Or the window goober says, "you mean I have to go in the back to get you a pack of salt? When I asked for one.
Not making this up Tom. & how hard is it to figure out Double Cheeseburger, no mustard?
Burger King screwedup our pre-thanksgiving meal, burger and fries order yesterday evening.......real tough order two whoppers NO catchup. God bless America and those who will be running it soon.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack. Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus. - That was brilliance right there.
And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB. All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB. - That's EVALUATING brilliance being demonstrated.
...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?
It was an interesting concept. I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box. But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.
Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years. Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.
Coleman is as good as Schwartz. Tretter slightly worse than Mack though Mack was not good in his last year here at all. Zeitler is better than Greco. The other two are stillthere. What exactly are you complaining about?
Coleman is as good as Schwartz. Tretter slightly worse than Mack though Mack was not good in his last year here at all. Zeitler is better than Greco. The other two are stillthere. What exactly are you complaining about?
Coleman was NOT as good as Schwartz. He was a rookie. - Sure, they scrambled during the following offseason to try and correct what they did wrong. But I would like people that know better in the FIRST place. No? That wouldn't be a good idea for a PROFESSIONAL football team?
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I have a question- what does the philadelphia 76ers under sam hinkie have to do with this board?
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