Our D
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Had to post the "Football Outsiders" drive success rates for a little perspective. Certainly not end-all-be-all but are very telling...
Browns D- 9th in the NFL in "Drive success rate"; 4th in "Plays per drive"; 6th in "yards per drive"; 16th in "points per drive... not too shabby considering they're ranked 26th in "opponent starting field position". Their only weakness is the lack of turnovers (ranked 24th).
By comparison, the O is 30th in "yards per drive"; 32nd in "points per drive"; 32nd in turnovers; 31st in "TOP per drive"; and 26th in "Drive success rate"... and dont even get me started on redzone offense...
I like these stats, while not predictive, they align with team performance pretty well...
So kinda like, "No D can do it alone"?
Uhmm, Roach is like one of the founding members of this board. He basically runs the BB Tailgate.
So...calling him a "fresh noobiz" is kind hilarious.
So "Stale Codger"?
So "Stale Codger"?
Maybe. I don’t know what a codger is.
i know this. My memory goes back to Johnson, Kanicki, Houston, Beach , Parish, Fiss Kellerman, and others.
i know that in 1999 I bought 12 PSL’s and my buddies bought their season ticket from me. i’m down to 2. Myself and my son. He drives in from Milwaukee to sit with me every game.
I know this. Frank Minnifield is the best CB that I’ve ever seen play the game.
i know this. This defense is awful.
I know this. This is not an emotional response, but one based on my observations.
I know this. This is a lot of typing for an old codger (whatever that is)
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I remember when we had a good offense a few years ago and the defense just gave every game away seemingly.
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They did actually. Refs screwed them.
Mmmh, Detroit? Minnesota? The first 5 Cincinnati drives when our offense at least was running some drives?
Every time our offense steps up (they haven't done it on daily basis), the D screws it up. They are better than the offense, but they don't take the team on their shoulders.
Mmmh, Detroit? Minnesota? The first 5 Cincinnati drives when our offense at least was running some drives?
Every time our offense steps up (they haven't done it on daily basis), the D screws it up. They are better than the offense, but they don't take the team on their shoulders.
If you’re making a general point that their good play doesn’t sync with the offense’s, then make the general point. But don’t say “they don’t make a stop when you need them to” when with the game on the line, they did.
And clev is right that everyone’s expectations are way too high. This D is a year ahead of schedule.
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but they don't take the team on their shoulders.
And they cant be expected to in ONE YEAR. And tbh if we dont pick up a vet DE in FA most if u are going to be salty about the pass rushing next year too. Garrett will be ok but if its ogbah next year starting opposite him we're gonna be mire or kess right where we are now.
point of all of this isnt that anybody thinks the def is world class now....but it has potential. The last time the def looked to be building something was under jauron and i have zero doubt the same characters were here baying for shurmurs job with no thought to what would gappen to the defense.
And what did happen to the defense? We stood jabaal sheard up and brought paul fukking Kruger to town. And that lasted one year. Than pettine came to town and we thought well at least its still a 3-4 so not much of a change. But then we learn players like dansby, who made their name as 3-4 players.....still had to Jenny craig down to the size of safeties to fit oettines 3-4. No clue there.
So scheme changes, especially on defense, matter like nothing else. If only lerner had just stepped in and told chud ur stuck with jauron deal with it......maybe we could have a perennial top 10 defense at this point. What i can assure u is that if another 3-4 clown comes in next year and garett, ogbah and nassib are standing up.....ur gonna reminisce about the good ole Williams defense from ages ago.
We've seen what ogbah and nassib look like standing up in a 3-4....its shyt. And frankly i wouldnt be surprised if they immediately asked for a trade cause all 4 of our DE's were batural 4-3 guys in college. Yo yo'ing back and forth between schemes for an inept irganization that cant make scheme commitments last longer than standard car leases, is not something these guys want to do and it coyld be career altering for them. Thats a big reason why no one wants to come to Cleveland. Thats why darnold doesn't want to come here. A new fukking playbook and formations every year? Nope fuk going to cleveland
And they cant be expected to in ONE YEAR. And tbh if we dont pick up a vet DE in FA most if u are going to be salty about the pass rushing next year too. Garrett will be ok but if its ogbah next year starting opposite him we're gonna be mire or kess right where we are now.
point of all of this isnt that anybody thinks the def is world class now....but it has potential. The last time the def looked to be building something was under jauron and i have zero doubt the same characters were here baying for shurmurs job with no thought to what would gappen to the defense.
And what did happen to the defense? We stood jabaal sheard up and brought paul fukking Kruger to town. And that lasted one year. Than pettine came to town and we thought well at least its still a 3-4 so not much of a change. But then we learn players like dansby, who made their name as 3-4 players.....still had to Jenny craig down to the size of safeties to fit oettines 3-4. No clue there.
So scheme changes, especially on defense, matter like nothing else. If only lerner had just stepped in and told chud ur stuck with jauron deal with it......maybe we could have a perennial top 10 defense at this point. What i can assure u is that if another 3-4 clown comes in next year and garett, ogbah and nassib are standing up.....ur gonna reminisce about the good ole Williams defense from ages ago.
We've seen what ogbah and nassib look like standing up in a 3-4....its shyt. And frankly i wouldnt be surprised if they immediately asked for a trade cause all 4 of our DE's were batural 4-3 guys in college. Yo yo'ing back and forth between schemes for an inept irganization that cant make scheme commitments last longer than standard car leases, is not something these guys want to do and it coyld be career altering for them. Thats a big reason why no one wants to come to Cleveland. Thats why darnold doesn't want to come here. A new fukking playbook and formations every year? Nope fuk going to cleveland
For me, it looks good... At times
I've read a lot that changing defense schemes and making a defense work takes time, and I guess that it will be better next year, but trying to show some stats and forget about Points Allowed per game, which is the most important one, and trying to defend the defense at all costs after they cost us a game yesterday, it's a bit overpassionate.
You can't expect 0-11, 1-26 fans to cheer about a defense hours after a loss where they allowed 30 points to one of the teams with worst points scored per game stats in the league.
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Well. So much for Nero being one of the reasonable posters. Have fun at the Ghoolie worship services brother.
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Mmmh, Detroit? Minnesota? The first 5 Cincinnati drives when our offense at least was running some drives?
Every time our offense steps up (they haven't done it on daily basis), the D screws it up. They are better than the offense, but they don't take the team on their shoulders.
If you’re making a general point that their good play doesn’t sync with the offense’s, then make the general point. But don’t say “they don’t make a stop when you need them to” when with the game on the line, they did.
And clev is right that everyone’s expectations are way too high. This D is a year ahead of schedule.
But don’t say “they don’t make a stop when you need them to” when with the game on the line, they did.
When?
What I am saying is that you have a unit that is better than the other, and the worse unit gets going and scores and sustains drives, it's really frustrating that the defense plays worse. Maybe it's that they don't sync, but the same argument about defense being gashed after long rival possesions could be made the other way: they should be more rested when the offense steps up.
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When we were down 7 with a few minutes left and our defense got a stop only to get screwed by the refs.
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So "Stale Codger"?
Maybe. I don’t know what a codger is.
i know this. My memory goes back to Johnson, Kanicki, Houston, Beach , Parish, Fiss Kellerman, and others.
i know that in 1999 I bought 12 PSL’s and my buddies bought their season ticket from me. i’m down to 2. Myself and my son. He drives in from Milwaukee to sit with me every game.
I know this. Frank Minnifield is the best CB that I’ve ever seen play the game.
i know this. This defense is awful.
I know this. This is not an emotional response, but one based on my observations.
I know this. This is a lot of typing for an old codger (whatever that is)
Maybe. I don’t know what a codger is.
i know this. My memory goes back to Johnson, Kanicki, Houston, Beach , Parish, Fiss Kellerman, and others.
i know that in 1999 I bought 12 PSL’s and my buddies bought their season ticket from me. i’m down to 2. Myself and my son. He drives in from Milwaukee to sit with me every game.
I know this. Frank Minnifield is the best CB that I’ve ever seen play the game.
i know this. This defense is awful.
I know this. This is not an emotional response, but one based on my observations.
I know this. This is a lot of typing for an old codger (whatever that is)
Codger Roach...is just a way to say that you are a cranky old motherfuhucker.
Now...tell us if there is any inaccuracies in that statement?
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When we were down 7 with a few minutes left and our defense got a stop only to get screwed by the refs.
When we were down 7 with a few minutes left and our defense got a stop only to get screwed by the refs.
True that. Awful call.
I forgot about that.
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Schobert has been one of the best run-stop LB's in the league
I was wondering whst schobs rank at certain things was. I still think we may need to draft or sign some mlb'er depth in case he doesnt keep progressing. But u can see why we were highly ranked at run d with a healthy schob, collins and kirk
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Schobert has been one of the best run-stop LB's in the league
I was wondering whst schobs rank at certain things was. I still think we may need to draft or sign some mlb'er depth in case he doesnt keep progressing. But u can see why we were highly ranked at run d with a healthy schob, collins and kirk
I was wondering whst schobs rank at certain things was. I still think we may need to draft or sign some mlb'er depth in case he doesnt keep progressing. But u can see why we were highly ranked at run d with a healthy schob, collins and kirk
Yeah. I like Schobert. I think the LBs aren't that good covering, don't you think so? Or maybe it is because they don't have a lot of help by the safeties/cornerbacks in the underneath zone...
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Points per game does not tell the whole story. Starting field position, time of possession, points per drive... all more telling and better indicators of a good D. As I posted before, our D is in the top half of the league in almost every category that matters, except forcing turnovers.
Its hard to fault a D that has to stop a team who is starting almost every drive near midfield, especially when most of those drives were held to FGs...
Can they get better? Of course. Are they the worst weve had? Not even close. Actually, last year was historically bad...
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Points per game does not tell the whole story. Starting field position, time of possession, points per drive... all more telling and better indicators of a good D. As I posted before, our D is in the top half of the league in almost every category that matters, except forcing turnovers.
Its hard to fault a D that has to stop a team who is starting almost every drive near midfield, especially when most of those drives were held to FGs...
Can they get better? Of course. Are they the worst weve had? Not even close. Actually, last year was historically bad...
Points per game does not tell the whole story. Starting field position, time of possession, points per drive... all more telling and better indicators of a good D. As I posted before, our D is in the top half of the league in almost every category that matters, except forcing turnovers.
Its hard to fault a D that has to stop a team who is starting almost every drive near midfield, especially when most of those drives were held to FGs...
Can they get better? Of course. Are they the worst weve had? Not even close. Actually, last year was historically bad...
I dont understand why people think changing defenses weekly like its seasonal ward drobe, is one if these days gonna work out for us. I mean i wouldnt be "livid" if another 4-3 guy with a sim system to williams comes in.....but at some point u gotta wonder when the good coaches absolutely start avoiding clev. Like complete blacklisting. Its kind of tacitly already going on but it could get very public very vocal very quickly. Like coaches just flat out refuse to even interview. Not even cfl coaches are gonna come to these caustic merry go round
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When we were down 7 with a few minutes left and our defense got a stop only to get screwed by the refs.
When we were down 7 with a few minutes left and our defense got a stop only to get screwed by the refs.
And even after the shitty call. Cincinatti had the ball at the 25 yard line. How did our defense step up after a bad call?
1-10-CLV 25 (3:51) (Shotgun) A.Dalton pass incomplete short left to A.Green (J.McCourty).
2-10-CLV 25 (3:48) J.Mixon right guard to CLV 11 for 14 yards (J.Peppers). R22
1-10-CLV 11 (3:02) J.Mixon left end for 11 yards, TOUCHDOWN.Damn...that's stepping up. 25 yards in two running plays. Looked more like swiss cheese than stepping up. But some of you enjoy the losses and think its positive to be 0-11 and 1-26 and 4-44 and our head coach is like 2-30 in his last 32 games.
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2016 Rams gave up 24.6pts per game
2017 Rams giving up 18.7pts per game
Not the 1st time you've been wrong, and certainly not the last..........................
2016 Rams-9th in total D
2017 Rams-17th in total D
Don’t tangle with me.
Points allowed is all I look for.....
Bout what I expected.
2016 Rams-9th in total D
2017 Rams-17th in total D
Don’t tangle with me.
Bout what I expected.
Yep, figures you are one of those yardage stat dweebs.
There's a coach that used to coach the Browns - probably before you were hatched, who now coaches in New England and has repeatedly stated that the only stat he considers relevant is of course wins and losses, but when pressed further he has said that points scored and points allowed are the only stats he considers relevant, so I guess I'll hang with him.... bout what you expected?
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2016 Rams gave up 24.6pts per game
2017 Rams giving up 18.7pts per game
Not the 1st time you've been wrong, and certainly not the last..........................
2016 Rams-9th in total D
2017 Rams-17th in total D
Don’t tangle with me.
Points allowed is all I look for.....
Bout what I expected.
2016 Rams-9th in total D
2017 Rams-17th in total D
2016 Rams 4-12 Last Place
2017 Rams 8-3 First Place
New head coach...new defensive coordinator (got rid of the guys some of you are blowing around here as a fucking saint).
Which stats are more important? Your worthless total defense stat or the standings and wins and losses, you know those things they count to determine who makes the playoffs?
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2016 Rams-9th in total D
2017 Rams-17th in total D
Don’t tangle with me.
Bout what I expected.
Yep, figures you are one of those yardage stat dweebs.
There's a coach that used to coach the Browns - probably before you were hatched, who now coaches in New England and has repeatedly stated that the only stat he considers relevant is of course wins and losses, but when pressed further he has said that points scored and points allowed are the only stats he considers relevant, so I guess I'll hang with him.... bout what you expected?
Yep, figures you are one of those yardage stat dweebs.
There's a coach that used to coach the Browns - probably before you were hatched, who now coaches in New England and has repeatedly stated that the only stat he considers relevant is of course wins and losses, but when pressed further he has said that points scored and points allowed are the only stats he considers relevant, so I guess I'll hang with him.... bout what you expected?
Vince Lombardi said about the same thing. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.
The NFL trophy is named for him too....go figure.
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2016 Rams-9th in total D
2017 Rams-17th in total D
2016 Rams 4-12 Last Place
2017 Rams 8-3 First Place
New head coach...new defensive coordinator (got rid of the guys some of you are blowing around here as a fucking saint).
Which stats are more important? Your worthless total defense stat or the standings and wins and losses, you know those things they count to determine who makes the playoffs?
2016 Rams 4-12 Last Place
2017 Rams 8-3 First Place
New head coach...new defensive coordinator (got rid of the guys some of you are blowing around here as a Shmucking saint).
Which stats are more important? Your worthless total defense stat or the standings and wins and losses, you know those things they count to determine who makes the playoffs?
OK,...but compare their offenses. That is where the big difference is on that team.
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2016 Rams 4-12 Last Place
2017 Rams 8-3 First Place
New head coach...new defensive coordinator (got rid of the guys some of you are blowing around here as a Shmucking saint).
Which stats are more important? Your worthless total defense stat or the standings and wins and losses, you know those things they count to determine who makes the playoffs?
OK,...but compare their offenses. That is where the big difference is on that team.
OK,...but compare their offenses. That is where the big difference is on that team.
Yep..they fired their inept head coach and brought in someone who can make a difference. Something the Browns should consider doing.
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