How the hell can you go 1-27.....
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And the Yucs played 14 game seasons those two years...
... and then went 5-11 in year 3...
... and then 10-6 and made the playoffs year 4.
So what's your point?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And the Yucs played 14 game seasons those two years...
... and then went 5-11 in year 3...
... and then 10-6 and made the playoffs year 4.
So what's your point?
And the Yucs played 14 game seasons those two years...
... and then went 5-11 in year 3...
... and then 10-6 and made the playoffs year 4.
So what's your point?
Hue is historically bad? 1-27 sucks? That just because the Bucs had that track record back in the '70s has ZERO relation to anything the Cleveland Browns of 2017 might do in the future? I could be dead in 2020?
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and got to pick from one of best QB pool ever....... came away with vinny T.
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Phukk stosh!
Phukk depudpuller!
Phukk berryboy!
Phukk Hue!
Phukk Jimmah!
Keelhaul all the bastards back to tennessee where they belong. Not a one of them deserves anything from anyone in Northeast Ohio. Just a low life bunch of bums and thieves!
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I can only hope that Tour, War and a few others are right, and the rest of us are proclaiming them 'The Greatest Browns Fans Ever' in a few years, otherwise..... man I don't even want to think about the otherwise.
Thanks, but speaking for myself, it's really not a "fan-driven" view... just more of a foresight thing.
huh? Tour, War and a few others are right in that we will start getting a lot better.....
but thats just regression to the mean. and the cyclic nature of the nfl. The front office and coaching could still suck and we're going to improve a lot. The fo and coaching can continue to suck and we will come across a good spell eventually.
I know its hard for browns fans to see, but this kind of year in year out regular sucking is not the norm in the nfl....and there isn't anything that is inherent in our organization that will mean it will continue. We will be better. Just how bad we've been over the last two years is a damning point towards the people in charge now though....
Ehhhhh.... true phenomenon that is not universally applicable.
Fits best when outcomes are purely the product of random chance or at least common cause variation. I see it applied often in the stock market for example where in the macro on broad indices like the S&P 500 and Russell 2000, or even sector composites, there is some validity, but that validity decreases greatly as the move to individual companies is made and special causes emerge. You can get real broke real fast looking for poor performing companies to revert to their mean. Common cause variation is a tough case to make for the post-'99 Browns.
My point was that there is a more likely third way- that the current organization is indeed lacking but there will still be an upswing. There almost has to be an upswing regardless. How big and long lasting the upswing is(will we be 8-8? will we make the playoffs? for how many years?) is the question.....
But framing it as "if we get better then patience with the current organization paid off" is a stupid way of looking at it. I'm confident we will get a good bit better regardless. Just because thats the way the nfl works.
As for history, as I've said the browns are an anomaly....there is nothing that indicates they will continue to be and that means they will fluctuate like every other nfl team typically does...
Blind faith is stupid. I, and the others members of the "sunshine squad" are not blind... and neither are good statisticians. They would be able to use reversion to the mean to predict future records and duration... within confidence limits of course. But then they would also start from the point of a sound statistical analysis and not half-baked, misapplied generalities.
You get rid of almost every player over 28. You focus on building a roster that will be good 3-4 years down the road and beyond, not worried about the first couple years. You also put good players on IR that don't really need it (but we haven't talked about that here). Quit panicking.
Folks go with what they know...
Thanks, but speaking for myself, it's really not a "fan-driven" view... just more of a foresight thing.
Ehhhhh.... true phenomenon that is not universally applicable.
Fits best when outcomes are purely the product of random chance or at least common cause variation. I see it applied often in the stock market for example where in the macro on broad indices like the S&P 500 and Russell 2000, or even sector composites, there is some validity, but that validity decreases greatly as the move to individual companies is made and special causes emerge. You can get real broke real fast looking for poor performing companies to revert to their mean. Common cause variation is a tough case to make for the post-'99 Browns.
Blind faith is stupid. I, and the others members of the "sunshine squad" are not blind... and neither are good statisticians. They would be able to use reversion to the mean to predict future records and duration... within confidence limits of course. But then they would also start from the point of a sound statistical analysis and not half-baked, misapplied generalities.
Folks go with what they know...
your mistake is thinking that there is some 'special cause' or special case here with this organization. We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years. over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl, but betting on that to continue is foolish......in any collection of that many teams and there many different 3 and 4 year cycles over that time(150+), you're going to have a few data points that don't fit in. Predicting that to continue is just foolish. That's why we are bound to get better and have some good times. Or at least not terrible times. What the duration of those times will be and whether they will be truly good times or just mediocre times is the key question....
I see sunshine pumpers using half-baked generalities and clichés more than anyone else.
Just by virtue of sucking so bad now for so many consecutive years(even the last couple) we've upgraded the roster based on how the nfl awards draft picks. So we'll get better.
I'm understandably frustrated by some of the recent draft picks....Kizer is a second round pick who absolutely blows. Corey Coleman was a #15 overall pick(NUMBER 15!!!) who quite frankly even when healthy doesn't look like anything close to a #15 overall wideout pick. The other wide receiver picks(admittedly lower) were obviously busts. Peppers was a shiny object name pick at the end of the first round that reeks of what bad organizations do. I'm not saying I could have done better, but then again I'm not paid to do it....they are, and you get judged by your results.
But we'll get better. Of that I'm near certain. The people who say we will continue to suck because "it's the browns" don't know what they are talking about.
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I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior.
Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior.
Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season
I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior.
Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season
The long suffering fans don't deserve 0-16, but Truck Stop Jimmy just might.... I honestly believe he cares- but is just clueless on how to build a winning football organization. Not only NFL- but he's got egg on his face in Tennessee on top of that coaching fiasco with the Vols. He apparently learned nothing from his stint as a minority owner of the Steelers.
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I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior.
Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season
I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior.
Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season
4 or 5 years?
where the F you been since the 70s....URANUS?
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Thanks, but speaking for myself, it's really not a "fan-driven" view... just more of a foresight thing.
Ehhhhh.... true phenomenon that is not universally applicable.
Fits best when outcomes are purely the product of random chance or at least common cause variation. I see it applied often in the stock market for example where in the macro on broad indices like the S&P 500 and Russell 2000, or even sector composites, there is some validity, but that validity decreases greatly as the move to individual companies is made and special causes emerge. You can get real broke real fast looking for poor performing companies to revert to their mean. Common cause variation is a tough case to make for the post-'99 Browns.
Blind faith is stupid. I, and the others members of the "sunshine squad" are not blind... and neither are good statisticians. They would be able to use reversion to the mean to predict future records and duration... within confidence limits of course. But then they would also start from the point of a sound statistical analysis and not half-baked, misapplied generalities.
Folks go with what they know...
your mistake is thinking that there is some 'special cause' or special case here with this organization. We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years. over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl, but betting on that to continue is foolish......in any collection of that many teams and there many different 3 and 4 year cycles over that time(150+), you're going to have a few data points that don't fit in. Predicting that to continue is just foolish. That's why we are bound to get better and have some good times. Or at least not terrible times. What the duration of those times will be and whether they will be truly good times or just mediocre times is the key question....
I see sunshine pumpers using half-baked generalities and clichés more than anyone else.
Just by virtue of sucking so bad now for so many consecutive years(even the last couple) we've upgraded the roster based on how the nfl awards draft picks. So we'll get better.
I'm understandably frustrated by some of the recent draft picks....Kizer is a second round pick who absolutely blows. Corey Coleman was a #15 overall pick(NUMBER 15!!!) who quite frankly even when healthy doesn't look like anything close to a #15 overall wideout pick. The other wide receiver picks(admittedly lower) were obviously busts. Peppers was a shiny object name pick at the end of the first round that reeks of what bad organizations do. I'm not saying I could have done better, but then again I'm not paid to do it....they are, and you get judged by your results.
But we'll get better. Of that I'm near certain. The people who say we will continue to suck because "it's the browns" don't know what they are talking about.
your mistake is thinking that there is some 'special cause' or special case here with this organization. We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years. over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl, but betting on that to continue is foolish......in any collection of that many teams and there many different 3 and 4 year cycles over that time(150+), you're going to have a few data points that don't fit in. Predicting that to continue is just foolish. That's why we are bound to get better and have some good times. Or at least not terrible times. What the duration of those times will be and whether they will be truly good times or just mediocre times is the key question....
I see sunshine pumpers using half-baked generalities and clichés more than anyone else.
Just by virtue of sucking so bad now for so many consecutive years(even the last couple) we've upgraded the roster based on how the nfl awards draft picks. So we'll get better.
I'm understandably frustrated by some of the recent draft picks....Kizer is a second round pick who absolutely blows. Corey Coleman was a #15 overall pick(NUMBER 15!!!) who quite frankly even when healthy doesn't look like anything close to a #15 overall wideout pick. The other wide receiver picks(admittedly lower) were obviously busts. Peppers was a shiny object name pick at the end of the first round that reeks of what bad organizations do. I'm not saying I could have done better, but then again I'm not paid to do it....they are, and you get judged by your results.
But we'll get better. Of that I'm near certain. The people who say we will continue to suck because "it's the browns" don't know what they are talking about.
sounds like to me with your fluctuations, cycles and data points that you belong on wall st and not telling everyone the browns will get better...christ....
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Thanks, but speaking for myself, it's really not a "fan-driven" view... just more of a foresight thing.
Ehhhhh.... true phenomenon that is not universally applicable.
Fits best when outcomes are purely the product of random chance or at least common cause variation. I see it applied often in the stock market for example where in the macro on broad indices like the S&P 500 and Russell 2000, or even sector composites, there is some validity, but that validity decreases greatly as the move to individual companies is made and special causes emerge. You can get real broke real fast looking for poor performing companies to revert to their mean. Common cause variation is a tough case to make for the post-'99 Browns.
Blind faith is stupid. I, and the others members of the "sunshine squad" are not blind... and neither are good statisticians. They would be able to use reversion to the mean to predict future records and duration... within confidence limits of course. But then they would also start from the point of a sound statistical analysis and not half-baked, misapplied generalities.
Folks go with what they know...
your mistake is thinking that there is some 'special cause' or special case here with this organization. We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years. over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl, but betting on that to continue is foolish......in any collection of that many teams and there many different 3 and 4 year cycles over that time(150+), you're going to have a few data points that don't fit in. Predicting that to continue is just foolish. That's why we are bound to get better and have some good times. Or at least not terrible times. What the duration of those times will be and whether they will be truly good times or just mediocre times is the key question....
I see sunshine pumpers using half-baked generalities and clichés more than anyone else.
Just by virtue of sucking so bad now for so many consecutive years(even the last couple) we've upgraded the roster based on how the nfl awards draft picks. So we'll get better.
I'm understandably frustrated by some of the recent draft picks....Kizer is a second round pick who absolutely blows. Corey Coleman was a #15 overall pick(NUMBER 15!!!) who quite frankly even when healthy doesn't look like anything close to a #15 overall wideout pick. The other wide receiver picks(admittedly lower) were obviously busts. Peppers was a shiny object name pick at the end of the first round that reeks of what bad organizations do. I'm not saying I could have done better, but then again I'm not paid to do it....they are, and you get judged by your results.
But we'll get better. Of that I'm near certain. The people who say we will continue to suck because "it's the browns" don't know what they are talking about.
We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years.
But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.
over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl...
Which is evidence of? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? A special cause...
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We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years.
But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.
over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl...
Which is evidence of? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? A special cause...
But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.
nonsense.....we've traded down a couple times(but not all the time), selected some guys in the first and second round that have yet to really shine(obviously garrett will...he was a no brainer pick), selected a few shiny object guys(peppers, a 2nd rd nd qb with a big arm), cut some vets to get real young(but kept some and signed britt). ...iow a lot of the stuff really crappy teams do when they bottom out..if you think thats revolutionary or different you haven't watched enough football. Thats what tons of nfl teams do. Every fan base/franchse when they have o get back on track thinks they are doing something different/outside the box. We'll get better though....its impossible not to. the question is how much better and for what duration....
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How the hell can you go 1-27.....
Here's how ya do it:
You take over a 3 or 4 win team that needs a QB badly.
Then you let four of your better players walk in free agency.
You follow that up by NOT drafting the QB that you so desperately need with your #2 overall pick. You instead trade that pick to a different team that needs a QB badly (making them one of the better teams in the league in one year's time).
Now, the NEXT year what you do is the exact same thing. Meanwhile, with the lesser picks that you got in trade you draft rookies to try and fill the holes that you created when you let four of your starters walk when you took over the 3 or 4 win team.
And finally, with the rest of your draft picks, you let the team lawyer make the final decisions on roster personnel.
.....that, and some bad clock management and game day decisions by your coach oughta' get you to that 1-27 goal.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years.
But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.
over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl...
Which is evidence of? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? A special cause...
Which is evidence of? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? A special cause...
not at all. It's evidence of a data point that is an outlier. But thats very different than being able to attribute that outlier to any special cause. In the absence of such, that's unlikely to continue over the next decade.
the browns aren't snakebitten. they arent destined to failure. They'll get better. How much better they will get depend on how well their draft picks work out. Not drafting the likes of kizer, coleman, peppers would help.
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How the hell can you go 1-27.....
Here's how ya do it:
You take over a 3 or 4 win team that needs a QB badly.
Then you let four of your better players walk in free agency.
You follow that up by NOT drafting the QB that you so desperately need with your #2 overall pick. You instead trade that pick to a different team that needs a QB badly (making them one of the better teams in the league in one year's time).
Now, the NEXT year what you do is the exact same thing. Meanwhile, with the lesser picks that you got in trade you draft rookies to try and fill the holes that you created when you let four of your starters walk when you took over the 3 or 4 win team.
And finally, with the rest of your draft picks, you let the team lawyer make the final decisions on roster personnel.
.....that, and some bad clock management and game day decisions by your coach oughta' get you to that 1-27 goal.
Here's how ya do it:
You take over a 3 or 4 win team that needs a QB badly.
Then you let four of your better players walk in free agency.
You follow that up by NOT drafting the QB that you so desperately need with your #2 overall pick. You instead trade that pick to a different team that needs a QB badly (making them one of the better teams in the league in one year's time).
Now, the NEXT year what you do is the exact same thing. Meanwhile, with the lesser picks that you got in trade you draft rookies to try and fill the holes that you created when you let four of your starters walk when you took over the 3 or 4 win team.
And finally, with the rest of your draft picks, you let the team lawyer make the final decisions on roster personnel.
.....that, and some bad clock management and game day decisions by your coach oughta' get you to that 1-27 goal.
Let's do better next time and 0-28 all the way.
Maybe "park" the franchise for a few years and start over, again?
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But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.
nonsense.....we've traded down a couple times(but not all the time), selected some guys in the first and second round that have yet to really shine(obviously garrett will...he was a no brainer pick), selected a few shiny object guys(peppers, a 2nd rd nd qb with a big arm), cut some vets to get real young(but kept some and signed britt). ...iow a lot of the stuff really crappy teams do when they bottom out..if you think thats revolutionary or different you haven't watched enough football. Thats what tons of nfl teams do. Every fan base/franchse when they have o get back on track thinks they are doing something different/outside the box. We'll get better though....its impossible not to. the question is how much better and for what duration....
nonsense.....we've traded down a couple times(but not all the time), selected some guys in the first and second round that have yet to really shine(obviously garrett will...he was a no brainer pick), selected a few shiny object guys(peppers, a 2nd rd nd qb with a big arm), cut some vets to get real young(but kept some and signed britt). ...iow a lot of the stuff really crappy teams do when they bottom out..if you think thats revolutionary or different you haven't watched enough football. Thats what tons of nfl teams do. Every fan base/franchse when they have o get back on track thinks they are doing something different/outside the box. We'll get better though....its impossible not to. the question is how much better and for what duration....
1. You can watch all the football you want, and it will not give you any better idea of how an FO works.
2. Name another team that has gone all in on a consensus process for player selection headed by a "non-football guy".
3. Again... if you are half the statistician you are pretending to be, then you can predict the how much better for how long.
not at all. It's evidence of a data point that is an outlier. But thats very different than being able to attribute that outlier to any special cause. In the absence of such, that's unlikely to continue over the next decade.
So an outlier is an... wait for it... outlier. Brilliant!
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Here's how ya do it:
You take over a 3 or 4 win team that needs a QB badly.
Then you let four of your better players walk in free agency.
You follow that up by NOT drafting the QB that you so desperately need with your #2 overall pick. You instead trade that pick to a different team that needs a QB badly (making them one of the better teams in the league in one year's time).
Now, the NEXT year what you do is the exact same thing. Meanwhile, with the lesser picks that you got in trade you draft rookies to try and fill the holes that you created when you let four of your starters walk when you took over the 3 or 4 win team.
And finally, with the rest of your draft picks, you let the team lawyer make the final decisions on roster personnel.
.....that, and some bad clock management and game day decisions by your coach oughta' get you to that 1-27 goal.
Let's do better next time and 0-28 all the way.
Maybe "park" the franchise for a few years and start over, again?
Let's do better next time and 0-28 all the way.
Maybe "park" the franchise for a few years and start over, again?
Well counting the last game last year and the first 13 this year, we are now halfway to 0-28.
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Well counting the last game last year and the first 13 this year, we are now halfway to 0-28.
Didn't you leave a comb or something In Spain that you need to go get?
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