2018 QB Class

Ibleedbrown

@westside-steve said:

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/01/cleveland_browns_terrys_talkin_2.html

WSS

I think the one thing that popped out to me in the article was...

"Dorsey is not a big fan of analytics."

So how well is this guy going to work with the DePodesta's of the world?

Westside Steve

@ibleedbrown said:

I think the one thing that popped out to me in the article was...

"Dorsey is not a big fan of analytics."

So how well is this guy going to work with the DePodesta's of the world?

It depends. He will have to be very clear as to how much cream and or sugar he wants in his coffee when instructing mr. Depodesta.

WSS

The Gipper

@dutch-oven said:

I was kind of expecting a more concrete reason why you thought he needed to play in a dome, such as you think he has a mediocre arm, or that he has small hands (which would hinder a QB in poor weather, and to be able to get enough zip on the ball to throw spirals in wet or windy weather). Instead, your response was a bit vague... just seemed like "I don't like him so he must be a pussy who can't play in bad weather" type of answer.

The list of QBs who come from warm weather areas who thrived in the NFL in cold weather cities is an impressively long one. I also don't think he's the most "sturdy" of QBs, but I don't think weather has anything to do with it. His injury history/body build is the reason I still haven't gone all-in on him, even if I do think he's the best QB in this class, especially from Day 1.

List of warm weather QBs that went north and did well:

Tom Brady...from San Mateo Cal....to Michigan and New England

Brett Favre...from Southern Mississippi....to Green Bay

Peyton Manning...from New Orleans/Tenn...to Indy (though, yes, that was a dome)

Bart Starr...from Alabama to Green Bay

Eli Manning...from New Orleans/Ole Miss to New York

Carson Palmer...from So Cal to Cincinnati

Fran Tarkenton...from Georgia to Minnesota...before they had a dome!

Aaron Rodgers....from San Francisco Bay to Green Bay

Jim Kelly....sort of.....while from Western Pa....went to school in Miami.....then played in Houston...to Buffalo

Y.A. Tittle...from LSU to New York

Brian Sipe....from San Diego to Cleveland.

Tour2ma

@ghoolie1fan said:

Not true Mathew Stafford was a big arm inaccurate qb coming out of college. Similar to Allen. Stafford had accuracy problems his first 6 years he didn't complete 60%. The last 3 years he's been around 66% a year. A QB can be coached to be more accurate. They're very similar players except Allen is more mobile and Staffords arm is a little stronger.

True as far as your analysis goes, but one thing Stafford did do in college that Allen did not was show progress.

Allen's successive two years as starter were 56.0 and 56.3% completion. Stafford's were 52.7, 55.7 and 61.4%. Stafford demonstrated the capacity to improve... geometrically.

Not sure about your mobility comparison. I don't remember what Matt was like at UGA, but he's been pretty nifty in Detroit. His Combine 40 was close to Allen's currently listed times. Matt's 3-cone time was a very respectable 7.06. As far as I know Josh hasn't run one, but will I presume in a few weeks.

@boo-fagley said:

you love spliting peas.

I'll take that as a concession for my math over whatever you were doing.

That said... I do make a mean split pea soup.

Tour2ma

@boo-fagley said:

Rosen is a nobody who thinks that he walks on water. Fans waiting in line for hours to perform fellatio like Tour.

So.... your bag is officially empty?

boo fagley

@tour2ma said:

So.... your bag is officially empty?

Nope, calling out man - boy love.

Rosen will be a bust. Just watch.

hoorta

@ghoolie1fan said:

Not true Mathew Stafford was a big arm inaccurate qb coming out of college. Similar to Allen. Stafford had accuracy problems his first 6 years he didn't complete 60%. The last 3 years he's been around 66% a year. A QB can be coached to be more accurate. They're very similar players except Allen is more mobile and Staffords arm is a little stronger.

Note Ghoolie thumper. We're not gonna wait 6 years for improvement out of our QBOTF.

tiamat63

@boo-fagley said:

Nope, calling out man - boy love.

Rosen will be a bust. Just watch.

Willing to stake a wager vs... say, Allen?

SD_Tom

Isn't Rosen about the same size as Tom Brady?

@boo-fagley said:

Well stated.

Rosen is a nobody who thinks that he walks on water. Fans waiting in line for hours to perform fellatio like Tour. Rosen will be another no balls excuse maker like Andy Luck just watch. Always needing that next piece of the puzzle to deliver. A Bust.

You don't become the first true frosh to start at UCLA by being a "nobody". I think he set the school record for most passes in a row without an INT.

The A&M game was a great example of starting off horribly, and then they pulled off an amazing comeback. I remember that one, cuz I flipped off the game and had to turn back on when I saw the ticker. You don't pull off a comeback like that without having some toughness.... and getting your team to believe you can win.

Rosen looked more poised in his college debut than most QB's look after 3 seasons. he's a legit QB. LOL and it's fitting for that team, his very 1st pass was a perfect ball, deep throw for a sure TD even while the WR was covered, right in WR's hands....and dropped.

That kinda summed up most of his career there. Lots of drops in all the game film. At least he's used to it!

nickers

@tour2ma said:

Damn... had not thought of Hal in forever. Yes... used to love his reads.

Then there was Dan "The Sock" Coughlin... the 60's/70's version of Tony Grossi.

Imma guess "hot tub"... Let me know if I win.

Your talking about the same portly man who was on TV8 Sports , correct?. That Dan Coughlin?

Tour2ma

No idea, nickers.... hadn't seen him in decades, but he wrote a column for The PD back when I was in HS... so he my well be dead now.

The Gipper

@nickers said:

Your talking about the same portly man who was on TV8 Sports , correct?. That Dan Coughlin?

Coughlin is still around. I just saw him in a feature a couple of weeks ago. I never thought he was much good....and based on recent viewing...that has not changed.

Orion

Sam Darnold -

- Good size. Has kind of a long, looping throwing motion....but he does it really fast so it's not as big of a deal as it could be (unless you're a DE with a nice long wing-span). I'm not thinking that QB Mechanics School would have much of an effect on his motion. He's done growed up with it

and it'll be there when the bullets start flying.

Josh Rosen -

- Tall but skinny. Has a nice tight throwing motion. Gets it out quickly. Has had a couple of concussions. Looks like he could be easily broken if dropped. He would probably prefer we don't draft him. (get in the lengthy line pal)

Josh Allen -

- Pretty good size. Pretty good throwing motion. Not as fast getting the ball out as Rosen but ok. Didn't really have to fight the heavy-weight contenders to get to the title fight. Completion percentage follows him like a dark cloud.

Baker Mayfield -

- The runt of the litter. Reminds me of Manziel (but doesn't live to run as much). Makes off balance throws (sometimes when he doesn't have to). Knows how to avoid the rush and get out where LB'ers feel like they're in nowhere land. (at what maturity level is his head at though?) - I have to say here that there was one game that Manziel played for us where I actually enjoyed watching the Browns offense. Although Pettine wanted him to stay in the pocket and get killed, he used his internal clock properly and got out of the crumbling pocket and into open space where you could just 'feel' the defense $hittin' their pants. - Then again, I enjoyed watching Kosar too.

Obviously, the fate of these guys depend on what happens in free agency. (perhaps a couple of 'em will be sending a letter to Cousins telling him how nice the colors orange & brown look together)

IMO, they all throw the ball well enough to play NFL football. But it might be a difficult decision deciding who will deliver the MOST value in terms of talent, longevity, leadership and professionalism. I'd support any choice with the warning that Mayfield's maturity level will have to be researched THOROUGHLY...because we ARE the team that suffered the Manziel thing. (Billy)

SD_Tom

Darnold and Rosen have played head to head. Rosen was obviously and clearly better as a QB. He sits in the pocket better, he's more accurate, and is more polished.

I highly suggest watching that game film and make your own decision. Dorsey seemed to choose very well last year with Mahomes and Hunt, so that's a good sign for the Browns. I don't even care who they get #1, as long as he turns out to be THE GUY. It's been too damn long, and we're all sick of trading down, or drafting QB's at #22, or whatever. Get the best guy and take a shot for once.

Side note- didn't Kerry Collins have a similar throwing motion to Darnold?

Orion

@sd_tom said:

It's been too damn long, and we're all sick of trading down

Absolutely.

A couple of years ago I was almost giddy because I knew that we would get one of the two best QB's in the draft and FINALLY man the position. Well, we didn't. So even though there are 4 to choose from...and THIS time we're under new management...I'm still once shot and twice shy.

hoorta

@orion said:

Absolutely.

A couple of years ago I was almost giddy because I knew that we would get one of the two best QB's in the draft and FINALLY man the position. Well, we didn't. So even though there are 4 to choose from...and THIS time we're under new management...I'm still once shot and twice shy.

Don't worry. If Smith vetoed a trade to the Browns, you really think Cousins is coming here, regardless of how much loot we throw at him?

syd

@sd_tom said:

Darnold and Rosen have played head to head. Rosen was obviously and clearly better as a QB. He sits in the pocket better, he's more accurate, and is more polished.

I highly suggest watching that game film and make your own decision. Dorsey seemed to choose very well last year with Mahomes and Hunt, so that's a good sign for the Browns. I don't even care who they get #1, as long as he turns out to be THE GUY. It's been too damn long, and we're all sick of trading down, or drafting QB's at #22, or whatever. Get the best guy and take a shot for once.

Side note- didn't Kerry Collins have a similar throwing motion to Darnold?

wtf are your passive aggressive remarks about Donald all about on the Alex Smith thread you said that Donald did not want to be here(which was a Shmucking lie) and now comparing him to Collins ? where do you pull this Sheet from ?

SD_Tom

@syd said:

wtf are your passive aggressive remarks about Donald all about on the Alex Smith thread you said that Donald did not want to be here(which was a Shmucking lie) and now comparing him to Collins ? where do you pull this Sheet from ?

I asked if his long throwing motion (which is supposedly a con on his scouting report... just like leadership/attitude is con on Rosen's report) was similar to Kerry Collins. Only reason I remember Collins, is I remember a buddy of mine hated him with a passion for that exact reason. He's PSU fan, and me being a Buckeyes fan, we sued to talk Sheet about each school's draft picks.

Not once did I compare him to Collins as a player, so don't put words in my mouth.

SD_Tom

Good listen.
https://soundcloud.com/user-465540614

Joe Marino likes Rosen the best, Mayfield second best.

TexasAg1969

@sd_tom said:

Good listen.
https://soundcloud.com/user-465540614

Joe Marino likes Rosen the best, Mayfield second best.

Never mind I found it.

Also a good talk on who to take @ #4.