Jonathan Paul Manziel
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You still don't answer the hypothetical what if McCown plays well and stays healthy hypothetical, Flugs.
Also, every time you mention Johnny should still be in college I get a good ten minutes of depression.
You still don't answer the hypothetical what if McCown plays well and stays healthy hypothetical, Flugs.
Also, every time you mention Johnny should still be in college I get a good ten minutes of depression.
Fair enough. It's like what you saw when Tannehill was a senior. You knew his time remaining there was ticking down while he gave you the best chance to win so it was easy for your 12th man to ride that out and have fun. That was also helpful to the learning curve of Manziel. Win-win.
This isn't any different, we want our starting QB playing well so we ride that out until it changes. We're all pretty aware of McCown's overall timeline considering Chicago pulled him out of retirement 2-3 years ago; so Pettine feels his experience should be invaluable to Manziel. I agree.
A front window showing the road ahead is always way bigger than a rear-view showing the road behind. Right now, we're staying on the road and sticking with the right path to get where we want to be. If we start looking like the Griswalds - then we'll see Manziel earlier than planned.
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Good analogy to A&M and reminder of JM's "youth"... (sorry, war)
I'll add that in addition to any season trend, individual game situations, blow outs or getting blown out, can yield field time as well. Hoping for more games like the former, but rare is the season that doesn't produce at least one of the latter.
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It isn't EVEN CLOSE. Carr & Bridgewater are light years away from Manziel. Both we could have taken.
The Raiders nailed a corner stone defensive player (Mack) and QB (Carr) in that draft. It could had been us.....
But NOOOOoooo...we are all about selling tickets and taking advice from street bums on who to draft.
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Almost everybody here wanted Bortles or Manziel. Some Garrapolo.
90% of everybody was very critical of PoG's love for Derek Carr. Just goes to show most here wouldn't be very good GMs.
But, Manziel is too early to judge still. It's not like we can call him a bust yet.
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Almost everybody here wanted Bortles or Manziel. Some Garrapolo.
90% of everybody was very critical of PoG's love for Derek Carr. Just goes to show most here wouldn't be very good GMs.
But, Manziel is too early to judge still. It's not like we can call him a bust yet.
Almost everybody here wanted Bortles or Manziel. Some Garrapolo.
90% of everybody was very critical of PoG's love for Derek Carr. Just goes to show most here wouldn't be very good GMs.
But, Manziel is too early to judge still. It's not like we can call him a bust yet.
agreed....there definitely was NOT a consensus #1 out of the top 4 or 5......people were all over the place and, obviously, no one knew which would rise and which would fail.....a complete crap shoot....
Personally, I was torn between picking Teddy and Bortles.....and was against drafting JFF or Carr.....so I feel like I was 50/50 on both sides.....Garrapolo was more of an intriguing curiosity, though I dont think many had him at the top....
And, yes, too early to make any long term judgements on any of them.....for me, it's three years before declaring anyone a player, a bust or a star.....
My prediction is there are no "stars" in this group.....a few will have solid careers, but none will be HOF type players....
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Almost everybody here wanted Bortles or Manziel. Some Garrapolo.
90% of everybody was very critical of PoG's love for Derek Carr. Just goes to show most here wouldn't be very good GMs.
But, Manziel is too early to judge still. It's not like we can call him a bust yet.
Almost everybody here wanted Bortles or Manziel. Some Garrapolo.
90% of everybody was very critical of PoG's love for Derek Carr. Just goes to show most here wouldn't be very good GMs.
But, Manziel is too early to judge still. It's not like we can call him a bust yet.
One bad call on one prospect is enough to call someone a bad GM? I guess all 32 teams in the NFL have bad GM's then, since everyone passed on Carr at least once.
I was very critical of Derek Carr, I'll be the first to admit. Some of it may have been residual fears from his brother, but most of it had to do with his pass distribution in college and the style of offense he was asked to run. I never for a second doubted his physical ability, I believe I even said he was likely the most physically gifted prospect in a long time.
It wasn't whether or not he was able to physically make the throws, it was whether or not he was able to make the necessary reads, adjust blocking and know when to eat the ball. And I have to give him credit, he seems to be coming along very nicely and I hope he has a fantastic career.
With that said, I believe this is a case for optimism on our parts, because Manziel was in the same boat. Nobody ever questioned whether or not he could make the throws or evade defenders, it was whether or not he could adapt to the professional game. I don't know how much influence Flip had in Carr's development, but it is funny to notice that both Carr and Manziel have progressed in those aspects whereas many others have failed.
Flip might not be a good OC, the jury is still out on that. But he SEEMS to be a great positional coach and APPEARS to be adept at grooming raw talent, which is always a good sign. If you have a QB coach who's able to groom raw physical talent, you are miles ahead of your competition. In fact, I'd venture to say that finding a positional coach who is able to do that is the absolute most important aspect for a team in a situation like ours.
Personally, I think Aaron Rodgers is the ultimate example of "grooming a QB". I especially like this little blurb about his development:
After the Packers' losing season of Rodgers' rookie year, head coach Mike Sherman was fired and replaced by current head coach Mike McCarthy.[47][48] Rodgers was then placed in McCarthy's "Quarterback school" for six hours a day several times a week.[49] This focused on working on Rodgers' motor skills such as hand-eye coordination, finger dexterity, and mechanics.[45] McCarthy also worked on Rodgers' release point, moving it from right beside the ear hole of his helmet to further below it, to give him a smoother release.[38] Rodgers was also instructed to lower his body fat ratio from 15 percent to 12 percent.[45] Rodgers was resistant to the changes at first but later commented that he thought they were for the better.[49] During practice in 11-on-11 drills, Rodgers completed 62.7% of his passes with seven interceptions, and McCarthy commented that "He's getting better" and that "You're looking at a guy who's going to mature. He's got athletic ability that people still haven't seen."
agreed....there definitely was NOT a consensus #1 out of the top 4 or 5......people were all over the place and, obviously, no one knew which would rise and which would fail.....a complete crap shoot....
Personally, I was torn between picking Teddy and Bortles.....and was against drafting JFF or Carr.....so I feel like I was 50/50 on both sides.....Garrapolo was more of an intriguing curiosity, though I dont think many had him at the top....
And, yes, too early to make any long term judgements on any of them.....for me, it's three years before declaring anyone a player, a bust or a star.....
My prediction is there are no "stars" in this group.....a few will have solid careers, but none will be HOF type players....
My hierarchy was...
- Bortles
- Bortles
- Bortles
- Manziel
- Carr
- Teddy
...if I recall correctly.
Today, I'd put Carr at the top, but I still think Bortles will be a fantastic NFL QB. Always have hope.
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Yep. I drank the Johnny football kool-aid but I like Derek Carr, Blake Bortles and Jimmy Garoppolo OK too.
WSS
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Haven't even sipped Kool-Aid in years...
In 2014 I was a gun-to-my-head Bortles guy, and I grew to like him, but was not overboard for any 2014 QBs. I did like McCarron as a sleeper... a lot.
I bought the system argument for Carr (ditto for Mariotta). While as twice burned I may be more resistant to buying that argument again, I don't have the skill set to see through all systems and see who has the talent with certainty. Carr's arm talent was easy to see. Mariotta's had some question attached.
Manziel... system-less and undisciplined simply held no appeal for me.
In 2015 Jameis was easy to like on the field. Bryce Petty was my sleeper candidate, so I'm not completely adverse to "system" QBs... at least if they are not very expensive.
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So, this is kind of a fun battle. Carr is the QB who could have been, while Manziel is the QB who might just be.
There were many here that were absolutely in love with Carr...I was not one of those people. He absolutely blew me away last year, but it seems like he's coming down a bit this year.Carr won 2014 hands down, but their 2015's are a little closer. As it stands now, Carr has the upper hand ever so slightly, mostly due to the fact the Oakland has been airing the ball out over the last two games (30 att. per game vs. Johnny's 20 att. per game).
Honestly, people are shitting over missing out on Bridgewater, but Carr is physically the quintessential QB and we wouldn't have had to trade up to get him. I was anti-Carr, but he's showing that he might be a pretty good NFL QB. After last week, I have high hopes for Manziel as well, but I'll temper them for a few more weeks.
Regardless, it's kind of cool to see the stats between the two laid out visually.
As a side note, I've been using this tool for my daily fantasy leagues. There's some holes in it for sure, but it's a decent little tool to help with roster decisions. It's also free as shit.
So, this is kind of a fun battle. Carr is the QB who could have been, while Manziel is the QB who might just be.
There were many here that were absolutely in love with Carr...I was not one of those people. He absolutely blew me away last year, but it seems like he's coming down a bit this year.Carr won 2014 hands down, but their 2015's are a little closer. As it stands now, Carr has the upper hand ever so slightly, mostly due to the fact the Oakland has been airing the ball out over the last two games (30 att. per game vs. Johnny's 20 att. per game).
Honestly, people are shitting over missing out on Bridgewater, but Carr is physically the quintessential QB and we wouldn't have had to trade up to get him. I was anti-Carr, but he's showing that he might be a pretty good NFL QB. After last week, I have high hopes for Manziel as well, but I'll temper them for a few more weeks.
Regardless, it's kind of cool to see the stats between the two laid out visually.
As a side note, I've been using this tool for my daily fantasy leagues. There's some holes in it for sure, but it's a decent little tool to help with roster decisions. It's also free as shit.
I think adding Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree is already paying off big time for Derek Carr.
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So, this is kind of a fun battle. Carr is the QB who could have been, while Manziel is the QB who might just be.
There were many here that were absolutely in love with Carr...I was not one of those people. He absolutely blew me away last year, but it seems like he's coming down a bit this year.Carr won 2014 hands down, but their 2015's are a little closer. As it stands now, Carr has the upper hand ever so slightly, mostly due to the fact the Oakland has been airing the ball out over the last two games (30 att. per game vs. Johnny's 20 att. per game).
Honestly, people are shitting over missing out on Bridgewater, but Carr is physically the quintessential QB and we wouldn't have had to trade up to get him. I was anti-Carr, but he's showing that he might be a pretty good NFL QB. After last week, I have high hopes for Manziel as well, but I'll temper them for a few more weeks.
Regardless, it's kind of cool to see the stats between the two laid out visually.
As a side note, I've been using this tool for my daily fantasy leagues. There's some holes in it for sure, but it's a decent little tool to help with roster decisions. It's also free as shit.
I think adding Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree is already paying off big time for Derek Carr.
I think adding Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree is already paying off big time for Derek Carr.
Shut your mouth, quality WRs do nothing to enhance a QBs effectiveness, oh wait wrong answer sorry, our WRs are as good as any other teams out there.
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Shut your mouth, quality WRs do nothing to enhance a QBs effectiveness, oh wait wrong answer sorry, our WRs are as good as any other teams out there.
Thank you Dr. Farmer.
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Shut your mouth, quality WRs do nothing to enhance a QBs effectiveness, oh wait wrong answer sorry, our WRs are as good as any other teams out there.
LOL! I've learned over the years right answers (as well as wrong answers) have an expiration date. Stay tuned...
I still haven't forgot your comment about why your dad didn't get a Father's Day Card.
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Yeah, not saying Amari Cooper makes Mccown Aaron Rodgers but at some point you hope the Browns will have a solid QB. At that point it would be nice to have a game changer on the roster.
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As we already saw with an offense carried by Adrian Peterson, you can even be Christie Ponder and be the starting QB of a playoff team in Minnesota. This year's beneficiary at QB in Minnesota is looking to be T. Bridgewater with an unparalleled 2 TD passes in 4 games. He's currently on pace to sport more TD passes than Manziel by week 7 or 8, which is a great accomplishment considering how many more starts that will require... I'm surprised the Bridgewater fan club stopped showing up to tell us what we're missing out on every week. It's going to be really impressive the day he passes our backup QB. I'm sure we'll see the Bridgewater fan club in here in full force to remind us what we're missing. Stay tuned...
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I love good sarcasm... and this was primo stuff.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I love good sarcasm... and this was primo stuff.
LOL! The Bridgewater Bunch disappeared faster than Houdini's Rabbits.
The QB impressing me the most from the 2014 draft class is Derek Carr. I guess the ideas to put Cooper and Crabtree outside deserve just as much praise.
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Raiders OL came together unexpectedly fast this year.. PFF rated them 5th best in the league. That's the biggest factor behind Carr's dominance.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Pretty solid.
Unsympathetic is right.
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MAsterdawg will come thru slamming that opinion saying Bridgewater And
Watkins aRE THE BROWNS'S 2 BIGGEST MISSES.
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Raiders OL came together unexpectedly fast this year.. PFF rated them 5th best in the league. That's the biggest factor behind Carr's dominance.
Raiders OL came together unexpectedly fast this year.. PFF rated them 5th best in the league. That's the biggest factor behind Carr's dominance.
I agree about the line but not with your unwillingness to exhale in defense of your shiney hood ornament thesis (which can be true in some situations but not this one). And you know that more than you're willing to to admit here.
Oakland brought in a FA Center Rodney Hudson from KC ranked #3 at his position by PFF in 2014. LT Donald Penn was ranked #7 by PFF in 2014 and they have a 6-3 230 lb RB that can also jet. Meatball on spaghetti, it's easier to run the ball when secondaries have to respect Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree downfield. Last year against Oakland we could make adjustments to stop the run so that meant Derek Carr would have to beat our corners with WRs they prioritized replacing this last offseason.
If talent at WR didn't matter - Peyton Manning would have selected TN instead of Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker especially with Elway's assurances they would also go after Wes Welker. Did he? As much as I'd like to join you in celebrating a team that was struggling with first round draft picks kicked Julio Jones off their door step for the next Gerrard Warren (plus the swing and miss in the next round 1) - I can't. The irony here is Jones (from the same college as Cooper) had a work ethic that anyone who studied him up needed to know about (just like Cooper). There was nothing advertising a brat that will show up feeling entitled. Today, Phil Taylor is working just as hard on that couch as he did for us - the difference is nobody is willing to pay him this time. Meanwhile, defenses needing to pay attention to Julio Jones today have made it easy for Atlanta to run the ball down their esophagus. Guess who's dictating where he wants the Safety in the gridiron chess match? The OC (Shanny) with Julio Jones on the perimeter. It's a passing era so my guess is no matter how good your line is - if you can't threaten any opponents with throwing TD passes to WRs especially in the red zone - defenses can prioritize stopping your running game. Then you're best case scenario becomes playing for FGs - and what if your kicker is Billy Cundiff? You better believe we got a great big UH-OH on our hands.
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