Jonathan Paul Manziel
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If you look at how the play develops, you can see Mack's just throwing a casual arm out there to help, but is straight away looking in to the next level.
What the assignment was we of course can't say - maybe Tour, who's looked at every running play we've made this season - can tell us if this is something out of the ordinary, but it's impossible to say for certain either way.
Discount? AS in only a 2nd rounder?
If you look at how the play develops, you can see Mack's just throwing a casual arm out there to help, but is straight away looking in to the next level.
What the assignment was we of course can't say - maybe Tour, who's looked at every running play we've made this season - can tell us if this is something out of the ordinary, but it's impossible to say for certain either way.
Why do I feel like the Browns OL equivalent of Life cereal Mikey?
Like I said repeatedly when I was grading, there was often a single failure... this is a great case.
Look at Erving... his set is not bad here. He's not too high. Waist bend is a bit much, but that yields rips not getting bulled on your ass... and while Heyward is damn good, he's not that much of a beast, and Erving is not that weak. Check Erving's stance and while a bit wide... whoa... there it is!
Look closely and you will see that Mack stepped on Cam's right foot... Cam was in the process of setting in a passpro look to escort Heyward's inside rush harmlessly to the inside. Erving's wide feet contributed, but Mack's were as wide or wider.
This draw was supposed to go between Cam and Joe T. and then to the left from there. Mack's set up, looking to seal off the inside, after he released says the later. The free rusher outside Joe T. and the unaccounted for Safety at top right (Allen #20) takeaway the Off tackle left and RG paths respectively.
So Mack can stay on the double team, but Allen will fill... not to mention the LB Greco overruns after releasing. In Greco's defense he is anticipating the LB pursuing to the left.
My guess is that Mack's chip was designed to sell the pass look and invite Heyward to fight the double-team. If Heyward does so, then his inside path is more assured, but instead he has a Clowney moment thanks to a stepped on foot.
Had the foot not been stepped upon? Not sure Joe sustained his block long enough for Crow to get cleanly by without Joe holding. Joe's rusher shaded inside just enough... probably because of the outside blitz.
As for why the draw? My guess is down and distance.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
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And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
& if you voted in the poll it's about nine to one Farmer is the culprit.
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I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
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LOL Tom. If they shit-can Pettine the day after the season is over- believe me I won't get upset. We'll see if Ray the Farmer gets shown the door too. As was said, the Browns are shit because they've pretty much drafted like shit for the last 5 years. Since they took Haden and Ward in 2010, it's been a freaking disaster. We passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt to take Phil Taylor- who's out of football. EDIT: forgot to mention the double busts Richardson & Wee-done. Next we take Barky Mingo, who's yet to live up to his draft status. 2014, we decide to take Justin Gilbert instead of Odell Beckham, and get our current Pipsqueak QB. I still have faint hope Manziel won't be total crap. I say you can't grade a player after just one year, but it's not like Sheldon and Erving are setting the league on fire. For your enjoyment, you can watch Erving getting knocked flat on his ass. Hey Joe T didn't get beat on that play.
I think some Internet wag put it- "The Browns are a couple of years away from being a couple of years away."
BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ya.
Um...I think I need a hug.
Um...I think I need a hug.
You could say based on statistical odds, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board should hit 25% getting a great player in the first round, and a pretty good one another 20% of the time.Well, that is more evidence of the stupidity of JJ.....he would have to pay more since he announced that he wants him.
Not only that Gip- IIRC, it could be construed as tampering.
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Um...I think I need a hug.
You could say based on statistical odds, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board should hit 25% getting a great player in the first round, and a pretty good one another 20% of the time.Well, that is more evidence of the stupidity of JJ.....he would have to pay more since he announced that he wants him.
Not only that Gip- IIRC, it could be construed as tampering.
You could say based on statistical odds, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board should hit 25% getting a great player in the first round, and a pretty good one another 20% of the time.Not only that Gip- IIRC, it could be construed as tampering.
Maybe we can get a draft pick out of them.....and not even give up JFF!
Can a team lose a draft pick for violating the tampering rule? And if they do can that pick be given to the team that owned the player they tampered with?
That should be the rule......it would sure put a complete end to any tampering, wouldn't it.
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I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
Agreed......there are a million articles on it and some are pretty interesting....one of the ones I read had bunch of players(not Browns) laughing and talking about how easy practices have become....like its a joke...
It was supposed to diminish injuries, but some studies are showing an increase in certain injuries like muscle strains, ligament damage, etc......and they are implying its due to less "full speed" training.....(can you say hamstring?)...anyway...it is what it is and its showing up in a lot of ways.....
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And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
& if you voted in the poll it's about nine to one Farmer is the culprit.
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Manzgina sucks at the most can be a backup QB. Even that is pushing it. We need to draft a QB who is tall and can see over the line and can take a hit or two.
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Manziel did OK - given the opponent and venue. He didn't have much help, but did make some poor reads and decisions - also threw high and behind on some of the longer throws.
We have two more games yet though, so let's see what happens after that. If he beats Pittsburgh in Cleveland in January then I'll be feeling better about him.
The main thing the premature circle jerkers after last week that said the team was way more energized and better and running game was opened up by Manziel learned something though. That is, not every team is the 2015 49ers.
Manziel did OK - given the opponent and venue. He didn't have much help, but did make some poor reads and decisions - also threw high and behind on some of the longer throws.
We have two more games yet though, so let's see what happens after that. If he beats Pittsburgh in Cleveland in January then I'll be feeling better about him.
The main thing the premature circle jerkers after last week that said the team was way more energized and better and running game was opened up by Manziel learned something though. That is, not every team is the 2015 49ers.
yeah well, he ain't beating the steelers all by himself. that would mean he'd have to rush for about 240 yds and 3 td's by his lonesome just to keep the game somewhat close.That offense over there in pennsylvania may end up being the best ever when all said and done and if they get a defense to come close to their offense look out. And by the way, their d is starting to gel a little already. They are just somewhat inconsistant but if they keep improving, they may end up in the superbowl. I don't think the pats can completely stop them. Bbedward, our defense stinks so bad, that johnny doesn't stand a chance to win this game.
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Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
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And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
need to watch what you ask for...i totally remember joe thomas saying " I think we finally got this thing turned around" during shurmers 3rd season. Hmmmmm, how did that work out???
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Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
fucking trent dilfer won a superbowl with the proper support, so anything is possible that is if we get the support we need...
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And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
need to watch what you ask for...i totally remember joe thomas saying " I think we finally got this thing turned around" during shurmers 3rd season. Hmmmmm, how did that work out???
-
And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
need to watch what you ask for...i totally remember joe thomas saying " I think we finally got this thing turned around" during shurmers 3rd season. Hmmmmm, how did that work out???
-
I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
Excellent stuff Mud & Gip. The lost art of a wrap tackle (except Keugley) has been replaced by submarine hits to only try to blow up a player to hit the highlight reel. When Miami fired Philman & brought in Johnson & he put them straight into Oklahoma Drills at practice, Thought NFL Network was going to have a coronary & turn Johnson into the league. I would take Johnson at our practice daily. Did Butkus ever get a veteran day off of practice
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some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
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Discount? AS in only a 2nd rounder?
If you look at how the play develops, you can see Mack's just throwing a casual arm out there to help, but is straight away looking in to the next level.
What the assignment was we of course can't say - maybe Tour, who's looked at every running play we've made this season - can tell us if this is something out of the ordinary, but it's impossible to say for certain either way.
Why do I feel like the Browns OL equivalent of Life cereal Mikey?
Like I said repeatedly when I was grading, there was often a single failure... this is a great case.
Look at Erving... his set is not bad here. He's not too high. Waist bend is a bit much, but that yields rips not getting bulled on your ass... and while Heyward is damn good, he's not that much of a beast, and Erving is not that weak. Check Erving's stance and while a bit wide... whoa... there it is!
Look closely and you will see that Mack stepped on Cam's right foot... Cam was in the process of setting in a passpro look to escort Heyward's inside rush harmlessly to the inside. Erving's wide feet contributed, but Mack's were as wide or wider.
This draw was supposed to go between Cam and Joe T. and then to the left from there. Mack's set up, looking to seal off the inside, after he released says the later. The free rusher outside Joe T. and the unaccounted for Safety at top right (Allen #20) takeaway the Off tackle left and RG paths respectively.
So Mack can stay on the double team, but Allen will fill... not to mention the LB Greco overruns after releasing. In Greco's defense he is anticipating the LB pursuing to the left.
My guess is that Mack's chip was designed to sell the pass look and invite Heyward to fight the double-team. If Heyward does so, then his inside path is more assured, but instead he has a Clowney moment thanks to a stepped on foot.
Had the foot not been stepped upon? Not sure Joe sustained his block long enough for Crow to get cleanly by without Joe holding. Joe's rusher shaded inside just enough... probably because of the outside blitz.
As for why the draw? My guess is down and distance.
Discount? AS in only a 2nd rounder?
Why do I feel like the Browns OL equivalent of Life cereal Mikey?
Like I said repeatedly when I was grading, there was often a single failure... this is a great case.
Look at Erving... his set is not bad here. He's not too high. Waist bend is a bit much, but that yields rips not getting bulled on your ass... and while Heyward is damn good, he's not that much of a beast, and Erving is not that weak. Check Erving's stance and while a bit wide... whoa... there it is!
Look closely and you will see that Mack stepped on Cam's right foot... Cam was in the process of setting in a passpro look to escort Heyward's inside rush harmlessly to the inside. Erving's wide feet contributed, but Mack's were as wide or wider.
This draw was supposed to go between Cam and Joe T. and then to the left from there. Mack's set up, looking to seal off the inside, after he released says the later. The free rusher outside Joe T. and the unaccounted for Safety at top right (Allen #20) takeaway the Off tackle left and RG paths respectively.
So Mack can stay on the double team, but Allen will fill... not to mention the LB Greco overruns after releasing. In Greco's defense he is anticipating the LB pursuing to the left.
My guess is that Mack's chip was designed to sell the pass look and invite Heyward to fight the double-team. If Heyward does so, then his inside path is more assured, but instead he has a Clowney moment thanks to a stepped on foot.
Had the foot not been stepped upon? Not sure Joe sustained his block long enough for Crow to get cleanly by without Joe holding. Joe's rusher shaded inside just enough... probably because of the outside blitz.
As for why the draw? My guess is down and distance.
Good insight there Tour. I actually still like the erving pick in the draft. They know Mack is gone and have made plans to replace him.
It seems like they taking a route they makes the pick look like shit in the now but will really pan out in the long run. Learning all the positions besides your speciality may help in his development as a elite Center and eventual replacement to a probowler. I would bet he improves the most outta all of 2015 draftees.
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some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
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Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
fucking trent dilfer won a superbowl with the proper support, so anything is possible that is if we get the support we need...
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