Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
Yup... and how much time and energy do we want our next HC to spend answering JM questions?
And frisky, JFF never did show in the NFL... just JFM...
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This is pretty early as of yet, but I can sense myself becoming more "all in" on Goff at 2.
It'd be cool to think we could grab Bosa there and someone like Wentz with the second pick... But I fear waiting too long and ending up compromising in a bad way AGAIN at the QB position. I'm liking Goff more than Mariota or Winston last season. I think it'd be a win.
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Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit.
I just see nothing wrong with a QB prospect sitting for a while... especially if it's a case of the rookie playing well, but the Vet simply playing better.
And let's be clear that was not the situation the past two years.
Great follow-up post... Disagree with your concluding paragraph, but really well done.
Prepare for a terrible written, long winded rebuttal that details how Johnny fucked over Pettine and poor Pettine deserves another chance, too.
Out of respect for jiggins really well-written post, then I'll even keep my response to you short-winded...
He did.
He did.
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He really brought this franchise down.....yes.....even lower than before...(and he proves that was even possible)...
At least....finally......all the Johnny loving apologists have stopped defending his nonsense.....amazed it took 52 fuck ups over 16 months for them to realize the truth.....
And too bad Pettine had to take all the abuse for "baby sitting" and being so mean to Johnny....(and it was a LOT of abuse)...most of those shitheads are quietly elsewhere now....haven't seen one say "wow...I was wrong".....not yet, at least...(Johnny and his boys all seem to have the same lack of class, maturity, etc)
But I think we are finally there.....Johnny IS a fuck up extraordinaire and there is no longer any debate about it...
So....hopefully there will no longer be any debates 'about him'......could we be so lucky?.......
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
LMAO... I seen backhanded complements before, but not like that one...
Thanks.... I needed that...
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Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
Johnny is our best bet at backup and with more experience will be an acceptable starter maybe even very good.Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
And BB Shaw isn't cheaper we pay Johnny the same whether we cut him or keep him.
And he sucks and Davis sucks.
Here's my concern, and yes I have one.
If he's really trying to get out of here he won't play well if we force him to stay. Look at everybody's lover rg3.
If the new coach is able to communicate with him, I asked him straight up if you wants to be here and be the starters or go elsewhere. If he wants to be somewhere else I trade him for what I can get to wherever he wants to be or anywhere that will pick up his salary. Try not to get emotional about it boys.
WSS
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This is pretty early as of yet, but I can sense myself becoming more "all in" on Goff at 2.
It'd be cool to think we could grab Bosa there and someone like Wentz with the second pick... But I fear waiting too long and ending up compromising in a bad way AGAIN at the QB position. I'm liking Goff more than Mariota or Winston last season. I think it'd be a win.
This is pretty early as of yet, but I can sense myself becoming more "all in" on Goff at 2.
It'd be cool to think we could grab Bosa there and someone like Wentz with the second pick... But I fear waiting too long and ending up compromising in a bad way AGAIN at the QB position. I'm liking Goff more than Mariota or Winston last season. I think it'd be a win.
I'd be more inclined to go all in on Goff if:
1) McCown didn't look as good as he did this year
2) there weren't so many QB's in this draft
3) there weren't some seemingly solid prospects in the next few years
4) Bosa wasn't in this draft
I really like Rosen, his passes are as effortless as Goff's, he's just as athletic, he has just as much poise, and he's only a freshman. With this trajectory and excluding any sort of injury, he's going to likely be the top QB...and maybe top overall pick... in whatever draft he comes out.
Not that I don't like Goff, he could possibly be the next Aaron Rodgers (I see more Flacco, though). He's very impressive and I've always been a proponent of "if he's your guy, get him."
But I think Rosen is THE guy, and I wouldn't be opposed to letting it ride with McCown for two years, taking a guy in the second or third as a project, and getting some immediate impact playmakers at other positions.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
well...ok.
i'm tagging you in now Steve, ur just in time.
parting words...just think, we could go from having like 30 starting QBs in the past 15yrs to being so loaded at the position even our 3rd stringer was a 1st rd pick. !!
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
Zombo said:
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
Farve maybe?
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The only thing more embarrassing than getting rid of JM in the next few months is keeping him on the team. He'll be nothing but a national joke again and a distraction to the team. If he farts in a public restroom media members will be asking players how they feel about it. The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself.
You cut him now to end the circus or cut him after June 1st to spread his money out. In the off chance a team is willing to trade any draft pick for him you jump on it. You do not allow him to fill a roster spot for any player that's willing to put in the time or effort.
The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself.
Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
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The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself.
Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
Moron coulda stayed at A&M for another 2 or 3 years to get the party outta himself. But he knew the "Legend" was more than likely gonna digress with the really good talent leaving for the NFL.
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Johnny is our best bet at backup and with more experience will be an acceptable starter maybe even very good.Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
And BB Shaw isn't cheaper we pay Johnny the same whether we cut him or keep him.
And he sucks and Davis sucks.
Here's my concern, and yes I have one.
If he's really trying to get out of here he won't play well if we force him to stay. Look at everybody's lover rg3.
If the new coach is able to communicate with him, I asked him straight up if you wants to be here and be the starters or go elsewhere. If he wants to be somewhere else I trade him for what I can get to wherever he wants to be or anywhere that will pick up his salary. Try not to get emotional about it boys.
WSS
Johnny is our best bet at backup and with more experience will be an acceptable starter maybe even very good.
*If we draft a QB 2nd JM will be 3rd option at best I think it's a non issue since he'll be released.
Here's my concern, and yes I have one.
If he's really trying to get out of here he won't play well if we force him to stay. Look at everybody's lover rg3.
*If he's the guy like you and others believe shouldn't he act professional. If he's forced to stay wouldn't he want to treat it like an audition and be the best he can? Why would you be worried now? I mean if he was so good before when he didn't put the work in or flat out give a fuck. All demonstrated by 2 years worth of his exploits. We're now worried he'll fuck up yet again and not be professional.
Glad to see you coming around
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The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself.
Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
Talking about pro only I don't fault him for what happened at A&M
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Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
Moron coulda stayed at A&M for another 2 or 3 years to get the party outta himself. But he knew the "Legend" was more than likely gonna digress with the really good talent leaving for the NFL.
Moron coulda stayed at A&M for another 2 or 3 years to get the party outta himself. But he knew the "Legend" was more than likely gonna digress with the really good talent leaving for the NFL.
Now that is a true oxymoron. If he is a moron then he would not have taken advantage of the Legend when he did. He'd have stayed and lost his selling power with too much partying.
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This is pretty early as of yet, but I can sense myself becoming more "all in" on Goff at 2.
It'd be cool to think we could grab Bosa there and someone like Wentz with the second pick... But I fear waiting too long and ending up compromising in a bad way AGAIN at the QB position. I'm liking Goff more than Mariota or Winston last season. I think it'd be a win.
I'd be more inclined to go all in on Goff if:
1) McCown didn't look as good as he did this year
2) there weren't so many QB's in this draft
3) there weren't some seemingly solid prospects in the next few years
4) Bosa wasn't in this draft
I really like Rosen, his passes are as effortless as Goff's, he's just as athletic, he has just as much poise, and he's only a freshman. With this trajectory and excluding any sort of injury, he's going to likely be the top QB...and maybe top overall pick... in whatever draft he comes out.
Not that I don't like Goff, he could possibly be the next Aaron Rodgers (I see more Flacco, though). He's very impressive and I've always been a proponent of "if he's your guy, get him."
But I think Rosen is THE guy, and I wouldn't be opposed to letting it ride with McCown for two years, taking a guy in the second or third as a project, and getting some immediate impact playmakers at other positions.
I'd be more inclined to go all in on Goff if:
1) McCown didn't look as good as he did this year
2) there weren't so many QB's in this draft
3) there weren't some seemingly solid prospects in the next few years
4) Bosa wasn't in this draft
I really like Rosen, his passes are as effortless as Goff's, he's just as athletic, he has just as much poise, and he's only a freshman. With this trajectory and excluding any sort of injury, he's going to likely be the top QB...and maybe top overall pick... in whatever draft he comes out.
Not that I don't like Goff, he could possibly be the next Aaron Rodgers (I see more Flacco, though). He's very impressive and I've always been a proponent of "if he's your guy, get him."
But I think Rosen is THE guy, and I wouldn't be opposed to letting it ride with McCown for two years, taking a guy in the second or third as a project, and getting some immediate impact playmakers at other positions.
Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
Having McCown around makes me more inclined to go all in on Goff. Josh is the perfect benchmark for a rookie to start. If he needs a little work roll with Josh. If it's even close roll with the future being comfortable to have the league's best backup/mentor.
As far as Rosen. I like his play on the field but hottubing with 8s and 9s reminds me of other cocky Qb Busts. To bad someone ruined perception for the kid.
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Man! I just wish that I had saved a 6pack of Billy Beer I got in 77
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I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
And I agree with you Mike. I have heard Carter talk about the shock of being dropped. For JM as a person we can only hope that would do it. Unlike some I still maintain he could be a very good QB sober and with the right team/coach.
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I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
And I agree with you Mike. I have heard Carter talk about the shock of being dropped. For JM as a person we can only hope that would do it. Unlike some I still maintain he could be a very good QB sober and with the right team/coach.
And I agree with you Mike. I have heard Carter talk about the shock of being dropped. For JM as a person we can only hope that would do it. Unlike some I still maintain he could be a very good QB sober and with the right team/coach.
Ag,
Carter has said many times that getting cut was the best thing that ever happened to him. I'm not saying that Johnny could also be a Hall of Famer like Carter, but I do agree with you that, given the right situation, he could rebound & be very good.
Mike
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I'd be more inclined to go all in on Goff if:
1) McCown didn't look as good as he did this year
2) there weren't so many QB's in this draft
3) there weren't some seemingly solid prospects in the next few years
4) Bosa wasn't in this draft
I really like Rosen, his passes are as effortless as Goff's, he's just as athletic, he has just as much poise, and he's only a freshman. With this trajectory and excluding any sort of injury, he's going to likely be the top QB...and maybe top overall pick... in whatever draft he comes out.
Not that I don't like Goff, he could possibly be the next Aaron Rodgers (I see more Flacco, though). He's very impressive and I've always been a proponent of "if he's your guy, get him."
But I think Rosen is THE guy, and I wouldn't be opposed to letting it ride with McCown for two years, taking a guy in the second or third as a project, and getting some immediate impact playmakers at other positions.
Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
1) This is also true. Hoping that McCown will make it through two years is not a smart idea.Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
2) Potential-wise? I think Wentz, Cook (and, to some extent Jones) possess the same potential - in that they have exhibited they are more than able to make any and all NFL throws. Goff is further along in his progression and is less of a risk (much less, in relation to Jones), but this isn't a draft that lacks in QB talent, by any means. It's probably no 1983 class, but in terms of QB depth, this class is better than plenty that we've seen. Don't forget that three, maybe four of these guys were hyped as first round talent, even #1 overall talent, at some point within the last 12 months.
I believe that there are three guys in this draft who will likely be starter level QB's for many years to come.
3) If he fails, I'm worried it will be the final nail in the coffin for the Browns attempting to draft a first round QB.
4) Bosa disappearing is still Bosa taking in two blockers, which is always a good thing. If Bosa commanded a double team every single play and only recorded 5 sacks a year, that would still be worth it, IMO. As long as we have a DC who can capitalize on that.
Which reminds me, is O'Neil really still around?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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