An instructive table
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What exactly has been stimulated to this point??
I don't think much of the money has stimulated a thing.
People are saving their money and paying down debt. No jobs have been created...unemployment is up 3% since president Obama took over(not saying that is all his fault),,,,just saying it hasn't stemmed anything unless you want to pull a figure out of the sky and say this is where it could have been.
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Well, I wasn't necessarily dealing in absolutes either. I do know when the stimulus funds were allocated at the beginning of the year, it had not been determined where they would specifically be appropriated to. State assemblies had not yet convened to make these determinations. We could have held off for several months (at least we would have saved the $60bil to GM before it went in the toilet) and be in a similar situation that we are now. We could have started with sending $$ to manufacturing, infrastructure, and other GDP builders and that would have been economically (& politically, imo) more responsible than giving it to people who make their living playing with money.
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I did see where NY is supposed to get a $8 billion tunnel in from NJ....good for them I guess.
Not so good for me or you.
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Well, I think you're wrong. I don't think 100% of the stimulus was well-spent, or will be well spent, but you don't get to deal in absolutes in politics.
And for every economist that tells you that the stimulus was too big you can find another one, equally qualified, who worried about it being too small.
If Obama doesn't address the long-term budget problems we face once the economy has been stabilized (and you're right - it's still sliding, but I don't know anyone who thought it would have stopped sliding by now) and we begin to grow again I'll be with you. But for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, mostly because we needed stimulus, but also because I don't share any of these paranoid delusions that he's some sort of closet socialist who wants the government to run major corporations forever. These are temporary stabilization measures that he took on because he thought he had to, not because he wanted to.
For people who can't see that, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should ask themselves why, if he's such a closet socialist, why he didn't choose to nationalize the banks, even when many economists were suggesting doing just that?
Maybe they should ask themselves why, if he's such a closet socialist, why he didn't choose to nationalize the banks, even when many economists were suggesting doing just that?
An answer & a tie-in to the NWO thread: Because China owns them. I try not to think about that kind of thing. I'll check in with the book of Revelation every once in a while, but once you have kids, it can be a real bummer to think they will have to face that kind of thing. Same goes for the NWO crap.
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China doesn't own our banks, Leg.
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Yeah, that was supposed to be a joke. Just trying to point out I don't try and go down the road of believing or disbelieving things like that. Doesn't do any good.
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A few that dont give Obama much credit for the bright spots in the current economy:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/...k-under-mccain/
Summary:
If McCain were president, let's assume that we wouldn't have seen a stimulus package. Would the economy look much different? No.
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A few that dont give Obama much credit for the bright spots in the current economy:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/...k-under-mccain/
Summary:
If McCain were president, let's assume that we wouldn't have seen a stimulus package. Would the economy look much different? No.
A few that dont give Obama much credit for the bright spots in the current economy:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/...k-under-mccain/
Summary:
If McCain were president, let's assume that we wouldn't have seen a stimulus package. Would the economy look much different? No.
So does that mean we coulda NOT spent all that money and still be screwed?
Reminds me of the Franklin Ajaye bit about coming in last in a long distance race.
Yu gotta be thinking "Hell I coulda watched TV, drank beer and smoked cigarettes instead of trainiong and still came in last!"
WSS
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McCain probably would have insisted on tax cuts as stimulus, which is a brand of stimulus package.
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It's budget projections based on current law and certain growth assumptions. They're not 100% accurate and could change dramatically with changes to the budget or changes in how the economy performs. But that's why they're projections.
And they have to change.
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A lot of that is the aging population eating up more entitlement benefits.
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@inspecta said:
No shit, it's mind boggling how we went from a surplus to this kind of deficit in 9 years.My American history is a bit fuzzy, when did we become a "superpower"?
Was it with the industrial revolution?
The only reason I ask is that if this truly is the end of us as the big boy on the block we have had a relatively short run compared to other empires throughout history...
It doesn't look good for us, and it seems that our only hope for a comeback is that we develop the next "big thing" from a technical/engineering/science standpoint.
Post-WWII, Spec.
WWII marked the true end of the Industrial Revolution and ushered in the Modern Age.
All the old powers were either decimated/weakened which allowed to megaliths to move in: us and the Soviets.
Then the Cold War, blah blah blah, terrorism, blah blah blah.
Which makes me wonder:
How different would the economic picture be if we HADN'T invaded Iraq?
Anybody ever read "The 2% Solution"? It posited spending 2% of GDP on things like education, Social Security, etc. It suggested spending an "obscene" amount of $250 billion on ourselves to help fix things.
Seems so quaint now...sigh....
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Well after all the speculation on the economy and the World Largest ever "Stimulus/Pork/Spending bill" I would say that Obama and the Dems have really put the working tax paying class in jeopardy.
What has been the one thing the government has always went back to to stimulate the economy during a recession or depression?
Who are we going to war with next is what the question should be.
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Man, you're disturbed.
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I'll alert my Postal Inspector friends in LA and Wilmington.
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@inspecta said:
Yeah but we're already in the middle of a war right now. It didn't keep us out of this current mess.
Beacause in WW2 we took over the job as world manufacturing headquarters as Europe demolished itself.
We're handing that title to China.
And we lost a lot of workers and shrunk the unemployment lines.
And the drought ended.
But it sure as hell wasn't the new deal.
WSS
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not only that steve, we are also the only country that has the kahoonas to drop a atom bomb and burn everyone to hell. when we got finished with hiroshima the only thing left was the shadows of where people used to be.
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