Stay at #49 or trade down

ballpeen

@orion said:

So what does that mean to you? Cut him? Trade him for a flip of 7th round picks?

Maybe package Our 3rd and Duke to get back in to round 2.

@the-gipper said:

From Hilliard.

I doubt it. I don't know why so many think Duke a great player. If he was, he would have been playing more. Hilliard had 9 receptions last year on probably as many targets...I couldn't find that info. He will step in nicely.

ballpeen

Oh....people say why trade him when all we will get is a flip of 7th round picks. I think that says it right...he is a dime a dozen player. There are all kinds of journeymen backs out there who go from team to team and catch 40 balls.

The Gipper

@ballpeen said:

Maybe package Our 3rd and Duke to get back in to round 2.

I doubt it. I don't know why so many think Duke a great player. If he was, he would have been playing more. Hilliard had 9 receptions last year on probably as many targets...I couldn't find that info. He will step in nicely.

Duke was the best weapon this team had for a couple of years. Before Mayfield, before Chubb, before Calloway, before Landry. Perhaps that is why. Most of us do NOT believe his capability was diminished...only his utilization:

Rushing & Receiving

	Games	Rushing	Receiving	Total Yds
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Rush	Yds	TD	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
Career				64	10	299	1286	5	39	4.3	20.1	4.7	303	235	2170	9.2	8	52	3.7	33.9	77.6%		534	6.4719	3456	13	8	20
2015	22	CLE	rb	29	16	7	104	379	0	39	3.6	23.7	6.5	74	61	534	8.8	2	52	3.8	33.4	82.4%	7.2	165	5.5333	913	2	1	5
2016	23	CLE	rb	29	16	1	73	358	1	22	4.9	22.4	4.6	74	53	514	9.7	0	32	3.3	32.1	71.6%	6.9	126	6.9206	872	1	2	5
2017	24	CLE		29	16	0	82	348	4	19	4.2	21.8	5.1	93	74	693	9.4	3	41	4.6	43.3	79.6%	7.5	156	6.6731	1041	7	4	6
2018	25	CLE	rb	29	16	2	40	201	0	23	5.0	12.6	2.5	62	47	429	9.1	3	32	2.9	26.8	75.8%	6.9	87	7.2414	630	3	1	4

To be reduced from 165 touches to 87 would reduce any player's output. Yet note that his yards per touch increase quite a bit last year...even though he had fewer touches.

Orion

@ballpeen said:

..he is a dime a dozen player. There are all kinds of journeymen backs out there who go from team to team and catch 40 balls.

.....I believe in another thread I called it, "Rent - a - Running Back".

Duke is a smart football player who can catch, run & block.

I think Dorsey made a mistake when he answered the Karem Hunt question by answering, "No, singing Karem Hunt doesn't make Duke expendable yet." - I wish he wouldn't have said the word 'yet'.

Orion

- There will be NO TRADING UP INTO ROUND ONE -

I just OK'ed the switch of band rehearsal from Wednesday night to Thursday night!

gumby73

@orion said:

- There will be NO TRADING UP INTO ROUND ONE -

I just OK'ed the switch of band rehearsal from Wednesday night to Thursday night!

I've been rehearsing getting rid of those 6th & 7th round picks all week..My wife's birthday tickets to me, says Jimmy Buffett hits the Nashville stage at 8 pm Saturday night..Let's wrap this thing up by 6Pm Dorsey.. Come Monday..i might be alright

Gunz41

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another

htownbrown

@jcam222 said:

Stay at 49 or move up if the right player / value exists. This team is not in need of collecting lower round draft capitol with a trade down.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/20/cleveland-browns-2019-nfl-draft-prospect-grades/amp/

Exactly. The FO already hinted they had determined any players left around pick 17 had second round value. Why would you trade back into the first if you think that? Hard to imagine a top 15 pick to fall far enough to jump that high. Moving up in the second seems far more likely, but what do I know?

TexasAg1969

10 potential picks @ # 49

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/10-players-the-cleveland-browns-could-select-with-pick-no-49-in-the-2019-nfl-draft/95-f431955d-d8e0-43cf-a5eb-474719c93efd

Canton Mike

@gunz41 said:

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another

I bolded the statements that, to me, say it all. I don't think Duke is/was as good as some think. I think he's an average back & the alleged picks suggested in trade pretty much verify that.

Mike

Orion

@htownbrown said:

The FO already hinted they had determined any players left around pick 17 had second round value.

This is true. But IS IT true? Or was it pre-draft bullshit tossed out there by JD?

htownbrown

Idk, but most consider him a straight shooter. If he moves back into the first, a top 15 player on his board has probably fallen to the late 20s. Just doesn't seem likely to me.

hoorta

@texasag1969 said:

10 potential picks @ # 49

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/10-players-the-cleveland-browns-could-select-with-pick-no-49-in-the-2019-nfl-draft/95-f431955d-d8e0-43cf-a5eb-474719c93efd

LOL Ag, you may be an A&M homer, but I'm definitely a (note the bold) Benedictine homer. Yeah, my HS Alma Mater, and unless things have seriously changed around there, Layne is a high quality individual.

Enter Benedictine product Justin Layne, who is coming off a productive junior season at Michigan State in which he tallied 72 tackles, 2.5 of which came for a loss, 15 passes defended and 1 interception. At 6-foot-2 and 192 pounds, the second-team All-Big Ten selection is a bit rangier than Ward and could provide the Browns with more flexibility when it comes to defending opposing receivers.

BTW, third round pick from last year Jerome Baker went to the same HS by way of Ohio State.

hoorta

@orion said:

- There will be NO TRADING UP INTO ROUND ONE -

I just OK'ed the switch of band rehearsal from Wednesday night to Thursday night!

@gumby73 said:

I've been rehearsing getting rid of those 6th & 7th round picks all week..My wife's birthday tickets to me, says Jimmy Buffett hits the Nashville stage at 8 pm Saturday night..Let's wrap this thing up by 6Pm Dorsey.. Come Monday..i might be alright

Haven't you guys heard of the wonders of DVR? I'll probably start watching the first round sometime around 9:30, just to rip through all the commercials and other BS.

Gums, unless you're a total draft nerd, guys we take in the 6\7th round are going to be players you never heard of. Unless you really want to see who's going to take Mr. Irrelevant around 6PM Saturday, I'd say Buffett will be far more entertaining.

ballpeen

@gunz41 said:

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another

I was just talking about Duke as a sweetener. If such a move required something else, so be it.

TexasAg1969

@gunz41 said:

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another

I was already about to say the addition of Chubb & Baker made him less needed as a 3rd down back. Having said that I would give serious consideration to converting him to the slot. He's got what it takes to be a good one if he accepts the role.

Orion

@hoorta said:

Haven't you guys heard of the wonders of DVR?

I do not own a DVR. I have a DVD player/recorder but trying to figure out how to record something is a nightmare.

The Gipper

@hoorta said:

LOL Ag, you may be an A&M homer, but I'm definitely a (note the bold) Benedictine homer. Yeah, my HS Alma Mater, and unless things have seriously changed around there, Layne is a high quality individual.

Enter Benedictine product Justin Layne, who is coming off a productive junior season at Michigan State in which he tallied 72 tackles, 2.5 of which came for a loss, 15 passes defended and 1 interception. At 6-foot-2 and 192 pounds, the second-team All-Big Ten selection is a bit rangier than Ward and could provide the Browns with more flexibility when it comes to defending opposing receivers.

BTW, third round pick from last year Jerome Baker went to the same HS by way of Ohio State.

Yea...well....you went to the same high school as Chuck Noll......nuff said there. (and I was born in the same town as Bo Schembechler....so nuff said there also)

Gunz41

@ballpeen said:

I was just talking about Duke as a sweetener. If such a move required something else, so be it.

I understood your point. But it makes no sense when combined with your other statement. How is a "dime a dozen, worth a 7th rounder" become a 3rd round pick sweetener to move to 2nd?

You don't have to assign someone a value to see how that makes no sense. Nobody would be good with trading a 2nd round pick for a 3rd and 7th. Let's just use an example here for context. Are you cool with the Browns trading pick 49 for pick 65 and 248 (Arizona 3rd and 7th)? Or let's use this, you good with pick 49 for pick 65 and 174 (the top picks in 3rd and 6th).

People can have their own opinions on someone's value, and those can differ. If someone had the opinion that Duke had a 3rd round value, then they could make a case for a move up like that. But when you offer up an opinion that someone has very little value, you can't turn around and say he has good value to fit a narrative

choco

That's wasn't how I read it. All peen was saying, imo, that Duke can be extra fodder for a trade up, and as he later re-qualified, 'if it takes more, so be it'. That he did not offer a full eval of which additional picks he would offer doesn't mean only Duke was the additional compensation. Read the actual words, not what you think he typed.