The Truth about Myles/Rudolph
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Second, this kind of backs both of our sides in the debate. Even though it's not Pouncey, there's an African American Steeler pictured above with his back foot on the 10 yard line with Rudolph and Garrett about 1 yard away. There's also another Steeler even closer at the 9 yard line. Hard to believe neither one of them couldn't hear a heated racial slur. Can you see why I didn't feel like it was an appropriate place for the N-bomb; especially if it's from a QB counting on another race at several positions within his offense?
I absolutely can see where you are coming from and truthfully we will probably never know if he said a racial slur. I'm sold on the fact he said something racially charged but not that he definitely said the N-bomb (maybe boy with a a southern drawl or the shortened version of respon raccoon or could have been a few others). But again I can understand why you're not sold at all.
Side note those two players near Rudolph and Garrett are decastro and number 71 rt matt feiler. They are both white.
Third, you were correct in identifying the screen pass. Having said that, the blue line above is the pre-snap line of scrimmage (17 yard line on 3rd and 29). I see Pouncey attempting to hit Ogunjobi right at the 17 yard line, which means he didn't get downfield at all or very far away laterally if he's only at the hash mark engaging a DT. I'll give your side of the debate about him not being close enough to hear the slur the slight edge on this one. Plus, you out-researched my asss so good job by you.
Yeah I was way wrong on the fact that he got downfield. He's definitely right at the blue line of scrimmage lol.
Honestly I didn't realize how far back Mason dropped on the pass. I knew pouncey was a good ways away from where it all originated so I assumed rudolph dropped back 5 yards and pouncey ran up field 5 yards, but it was just Rudolph dropping back ten yards and pouncey dropping a couple steps at snap to sell the screen then taking those same two steps back forward
Fourth, while you make a good point about Garrett's composure OFF the field (in that incident) - for some reason backup QBs filling in for injured starters bring out another side/his inner-Suh. For example, he got flagged 2 or 3 times in that NY Jets game for dirty/unnecessary stuff to the extent people (outside of Cleveland fans) found reasons to question if he was a dirty player. Also to the extent the replays had nobody questioning the flags he earned. He ended 1 harmless QB's season who was actually helping us and hurting the Jets. Come to think of it, Rudolph was helping us more than he was helping the Steelers as well. I know we both wish the whole thing never happened.
You started going the direction I thought you would and one that I can't argue with the "OFF" field comment. I understand it takes a completely different mindset to play in a game in the national football league than the mindset he operates in during his every day life. So I could see not being able to control his reaction when in that different (nfl) mindset and a physical altercation happens versus being able to control his emotion with the fan physical altercation.
You went a completely different direction though that shocked me. I don't find Garrett's hits during the jets game dirty at all. They weren't even late. It was only a penalty cause he wasn't able to keep his full body weight from landing on the qb which is hard to do when you're mid air diving to hit the qb. While yes it is a penalty I didn't see it as dirty or have any Ill will behind the hits
I honestly didn't even know anyone considered those dirty. I know once the steeler fiasco happened people started trying to prove he is a dirty player and started citing those. I remember people saying he needs to start playing smarter and stopping the penalties because he was getting penalized a lot but don't remember anything being said about being dirty. During the jets game I remember the announcers asking blandino or whatever "ref" on there what Garrett was supposed to do on the first one. The ref couldn't tell them anything just that it is going to be a penalty. The one where he injured the guy the announcer made a point to show on the replay how Siemian foot got stuck in the ground underneath him. Even if Garrett had managed to turn off him or master levitation he still would have had the same injury cause his foot was stuck in the ground and the on time hit was causing him to fall on top of it. Extra weight or not. Again I understand it's a penalty but to me it's not dirty.
Hell Clay Matthew's had like 4 of those same penalties the first two weeks and I don't recall anyone calling him dirty or trying to make the point he is now.
You went a completely different direction though that shocked me. I don't find Garrett's hits during the jets game dirty at all. They weren't even late. It was only a penalty cause he wasn't able to keep his full body weight from landing on the qb which is hard to do when you're mid air diving to hit the qb. While yes it is a penalty I didn't see it as dirty or have any Ill will behind the hits
I honestly didn't even know anyone considered those dirty.
You're a Cleveland fan so of course nobody thinks he should have been penalized vrs the Jets or he's played any dirty football yet. The hit that really stood out was the 1 he ended their backup QB's season. If ANYONE did that exact same thing to our QB in a game - trust me when I tell you all the same Cleveland fans that were telling you it wasn't dirty would be telling you it is dirty. I promise. Didn't one of the commentators mention he wouldn't be surprised if there's a fine from the league after it? He was penalized 2-3 times that game - but that doesn't mean they were all dirty the way Refs baby QBs. The 1 that ended the guy's season was avoidable IMO. When they
Overall, I don't think MG is a dirty player. I just have 2 WTF moments with him that took place on prime-time TV that can lead people to think he is dirty; especially if they haven't watched him every week since he arrived here. I don't want people thinking this guy is the next Burfict because he isn't. He's just gotta exercise better judgement/self-control in the 2 situations a lot of eyes saw in the 2 Night Games we're talking about.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You went a completely different direction though that shocked me. I don't find Garrett's hits during the jets game dirty at all. They weren't even late. It was only a penalty cause he wasn't able to keep his full body weight from landing on the qb which is hard to do when you're mid air diving to hit the qb. While yes it is a penalty I didn't see it as dirty or have any Ill will behind the hits
I honestly didn't even know anyone considered those dirty.
You're a Cleveland fan so of course nobody thinks he should have been penalized vrs the Jets or he's played any dirty football yet. The hit that really stood out was the 1 he ended their backup QB's season. If ANYONE did that exact same thing to our QB in a game - trust me when I tell you all the same Cleveland fans that were telling you it wasn't dirty would be telling you it is dirty. I promise. Didn't one of the commentators mention he wouldn't be surprised if there's a fine from the league after it? He was penalized 2-3 times that game - but that doesn't mean they were all dirty the way Refs baby QBs. The 1 that ended the guy's season was avoidable IMO. When they
Overall, I don't think MG is a dirty player. I just have 2 WTF moments with him that took place on prime-time TV that can lead people to think he is dirty; especially if they haven't watched him every week since he arrived here. I don't want people thinking this guy is the next Burfict because he isn't. He's just gotta exercise better judgement/self-control in the 2 situations a lot of eyes saw in the 2 Night Games we're talking about.
You're a Cleveland fan so of course nobody thinks he should have been penalized vrs the Jets or he's played any dirty football yet. The hit that really stood out was the 1 he ended their backup QB's season. If ANYONE did that exact same thing to our QB in a game - trust me when I tell you all the same Cleveland fans that were telling you it wasn't dirty would be telling you it is dirty. I promise. Didn't one of the commentators mention he wouldn't be surprised if there's a fine from the league after it? He was penalized 2-3 times that game - but that doesn't mean they were all dirty the way Refs baby QBs. The 1 that ended the guy's season was avoidable IMO. When they
Overall, I don't think MG is a dirty player. I just have 2 WTF moments with him that took place on prime-time TV that can lead people to think he is dirty; especially if they haven't watched him every week since he arrived here. I don't want people thinking this guy is the next Burfict because he isn't. He's just gotta exercise better judgement/self-control in the 2 situations a lot of eyes saw in the 2 Night Games we're talking about.
He had 4 penalties that game (3 accepted). The 2 body weight on qb roughing, 1 accepted offside, 1 declined offside.
I personally wouldn't consider that a dirty hit no matter who was dishing out the hit and who was receiving the hit. I didn't think it was dirty when it was Anthony Barr taking out Aarom Rodgers for the year. I have absolutely no allegiance to that situation other than Rodgers was my fantasy QB that year.
It's absolutely a penalty by rule because they changed the word AND to OR in this rule “a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw [the passer] down AND land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight.” However not all penalties are dirty.
Again the reason Siemian got hurt was his left foot got stuck in the turf underneath him. If it were egregiously late I would call it a dirty hit. In my mind it's still a rule adjustment period. If he were to continue to do it I would call it dirty. I dont believe he hasn't done it since that week.
Interestingly enough the way he twisted mason and took him down lightly (didn't explode through the hit) in order to avoid the full body with penalty in the steelers game very well may have caused rudolph to react feeling it was late.
I took another screenshot the ball is still in Siemian's hand here and Garrett has already exploded off the outside of his left foot towards Siemian
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You went a completely different direction though that shocked me. I don't find Garrett's hits during the jets game dirty at all. They weren't even late. It was only a penalty cause he wasn't able to keep his full body weight from landing on the qb which is hard to do when you're mid air diving to hit the qb. While yes it is a penalty I didn't see it as dirty or have any Ill will behind the hits
I honestly didn't even know anyone considered those dirty.
You're a Cleveland fan so of course nobody thinks he should have been penalized vrs the Jets or he's played any dirty football yet. The hit that really stood out was the 1 he ended their backup QB's season. If ANYONE did that exact same thing to our QB in a game - trust me when I tell you all the same Cleveland fans that were telling you it wasn't dirty would be telling you it is dirty. I promise. Didn't one of the commentators mention he wouldn't be surprised if there's a fine from the league after it? He was penalized 2-3 times that game - but that doesn't mean they were all dirty the way Refs baby QBs. The 1 that ended the guy's season was avoidable IMO. When they
Overall, I don't think MG is a dirty player. I just have 2 WTF moments with him that took place on prime-time TV that can lead people to think he is dirty; especially if they haven't watched him every week since he arrived here. I don't want people thinking this guy is the next Burfict because he isn't. He's just gotta exercise better judgement/self-control in the 2 situations a lot of eyes saw in the 2 Night Games we're talking about.
Didn't one of the commentators mention he wouldn't be surprised if there's a fine from the league after it?
If it happened it was after the first one. I watched the following 5 plays after the 2nd one that resulted in the injury and nothing was said. The first one I only got to watch play and replay which only thing said during that was blandino saying "nothing wrong with the timing of the hit but they're going to get him for body weight on qb. It's a judgement call but supportable based on how their chests lined up." Then Booger said that was just a good hit in my day.
Again im not arguing it is not a penalty. It absolutely is based on the rule. I just don't think it's dirty unless you operate under the idea all penalties are dirty plays.
I looked it up and Garrett was fined for both hits. Here comes another example of my non-bias. Jamal Adams was also fined for his hit on Baker in that game which I don't think was a dirty play.
Now I don't know if the nfl only fines if they feel they are dirty plays or if they fine most all roughing the passer penalties. If the latter is the case then it's asinine and they should fine every player that gets a 15 yard penalty, but ultimately I'm ok with Garrett and Adams both getting fines if that's how they do it. However if fines are supposed to be for dirty plays I dont believe either player should have been given a fine.
Honestly I would have assumed they only fined for dirty plays but after decastro got fined for playing peacemaker and trying to break up a fight then nothing the NFL fines for would surprise me.
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Didn't one of the commentators mention he wouldn't be surprised if there's a fine from the league after it?
If it happened it was after the first one. I watched the following 5 plays after the 2nd one that resulted in the injury and nothing was said. The first one I only got to watch play and replay which only thing said during that was blandino saying "nothing wrong with the timing of the hit but they're going to get him for body weight on qb. It's a judgement call but supportable based on how their chests lined up." Then Booger said that was just a good hit in my day.
Again im not arguing it is not a penalty. It absolutely is based on the rule. I just don't think it's dirty unless you operate under the idea all penalties are dirty plays.
I looked it up and Garrett was fined for both hits. Here comes another example of my non-bias. Jamal Adams was also fined for his hit on Baker in that game which I don't think was a dirty play.
Now I don't know if the nfl only fines if they feel they are dirty plays or if they fine most all roughing the passer penalties. If the latter is the case then it's asinine and they should fine every player that gets a 15 yard penalty, but ultimately I'm ok with Garrett and Adams both getting fines if that's how they do it. However if fines are supposed to be for dirty plays I dont believe either player should have been given a fine.
Honestly I would have assumed they only fined for dirty plays but after decastro got fined for playing peacemaker and trying to break up a fight then nothing the NFL fines for would surprise me.
If it happened it was after the first one. I watched the following 5 plays after the 2nd one that resulted in the injury and nothing was said. The first one I only got to watch play and replay which only thing said during that was blandino saying "nothing wrong with the timing of the hit but they're going to get him for body weight on qb. It's a judgement call but supportable based on how their chests lined up." Then Booger said that was just a good hit in my day.
Again im not arguing it is not a penalty. It absolutely is based on the rule. I just don't think it's dirty unless you operate under the idea all penalties are dirty plays.
I agree with a lot of your points! That said, let's apply the physics of a 270 lb DE that can run about a 4.58 sprinting with about a 15 yard head of steam to the sideline where the QB released the ball prior to the hit and pounce. That's why that hit got him the $45 K fine. This video I attached below isn't great because it goes down field with the ball instead of zooming in on the hit. However, they do go back and show the hit focusing mostly on the leg breaking. While you are correct in saying/thinking it's hard to stop a full head of steam. If you are an athletic freak like Garrett is - you can hit and turn while doing so. I've seen guys exhibit this kind of body control. I saw someone with far less athletic ability do that to Aaron Rodgers 2-3 weeks ago so he landed on his side next to Rodgers trying to prevent a flag. He still got flagged and that was ridiculous.
When we played Seattle, they got 4 penalties in Wilson's go ahead drive late which I questioned a couple of those. If anything, I'm a homer that protests a lot of penalties against us. Classic example? Last year when Ben got outside of the pocket on 4th and goal from the 9 looking to run or throw (with the body weight of 260 lbs on a 6'6" frame) - Garrett tackled him like a ball carrier and got flagged. This gave Pitt 4 new downs and 1st and goal from the 5 instead of the FG they would have ended up with in a game that ended tied in regulation and OT. I definitely had a problem with the call and it cost a win over Pittsburgh IMO.
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Thing that I think has to be remembered is that the all MG's "roughing" penalties came in the first two weeks of the season when pass rushers were trying to figure what and where the lines were when it came to the QB.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thing that I think has to be remembered is that the all MG's "roughing" penalties came in the first two weeks of the season when pass rushers were trying to figure what and where the lines were when it came to the QB.
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Thing that I think has to be remembered is that the all MG's "roughing" penalties came in the first two weeks of the season when pass rushers were trying to figure what and where the lines were when it came to the QB.
Thing that I think has to be remembered is that the all MG's "roughing" penalties came in the first two weeks of the season when pass rushers were trying to figure what and where the lines were when it came to the QB.
i said something similar earlier and i was fairly certain he hadn't got a roughing the passer penalty since that jets week.
Again i truly think Garrett was trying to avoid one of those full body weight penalties when he hit Rudolph and that's actually what started the whole fiasco. Rudolph likely felt he took him to the ground late when really Garrett was just trying to take him down without landing on him.
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Thing that I think has to be remembered is that the all MG's "roughing" penalties came in the first two weeks of the season when pass rushers were trying to figure what and where the lines were when it came to the QB.
i said something similar earlier and i was fairly certain he hadn't got a roughing the passer penalty since that jets week.
Again i truly think Garrett was trying to avoid one of those full body weight penalties when he hit Rudolph and that's actually what started the whole fiasco. Rudolph likely felt he took him to the ground late when really Garrett was just trying to take him down without landing on him.
i said something similar earlier and i was fairly certain he hadn't got a roughing the passer penalty since that jets week.
Again i truly think Garrett was trying to avoid one of those full body weight penalties when he hit Rudolph and that's actually what started the whole fiasco. Rudolph likely felt he took him to the ground late when really Garrett was just trying to take him down without landing on him.
Exactly. Garrett didn't want that penalty for squishing the squealer qb, so he went out of his way to have him land on HIM.
and still sissy mason went on a hissy fit. An adopted sister-in -law said she heard the Browns-Squealers game was going to have a seasoned, veteran ref squad there, and some NFL officials may be there.
Way too late- you let it get out of hand by favoring the steelers all these years.
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Thing that I think has to be remembered is that the all MG's "roughing" penalties came in the first two weeks of the season when pass rushers were trying to figure what and where the lines were when it came to the QB.
i said something similar earlier and i was fairly certain he hadn't got a roughing the passer penalty since that jets week.
Again i truly think Garrett was trying to avoid one of those full body weight penalties when he hit Rudolph and that's actually what started the whole fiasco. Rudolph likely felt he took him to the ground late when really Garrett was just trying to take him down without landing on him.
Again i truly think Garrett was trying to avoid one of those full body weight penalties when he hit Rudolph and that's actually what started the whole fiasco. Rudolph likely felt he took him to the ground late when really Garrett was just trying to take him down without landing on him.
Yup... Could not have laid him more gently on the ground... kind of a slo-mo take down that I'm sure seemed late and later to Rudolph... with the irritation then magnified by Mason's "performance".
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i said something similar earlier and i was fairly certain he hadn't got a roughing the passer penalty since that jets week.
Again i truly think Garrett was trying to avoid one of those full body weight penalties when he hit Rudolph and that's actually what started the whole fiasco. Rudolph likely felt he took him to the ground late when really Garrett was just trying to take him down without landing on him.
Exactly. Garrett didn't want that penalty for squishing the squealer qb, so he went out of his way to have him land on HIM.
and still sissy mason went on a hissy fit. An adopted sister-in -law said she heard the Browns-Squealers game was going to have a seasoned, veteran ref squad there, and some NFL officials may be there.
Way too late- you let it get out of hand by favoring the steelers all these years.
Exactly. Garrett didn't want that penalty for squishing the squealer qb, so he went out of his way to have him land on HIM.
and still sissy mason went on a hissy fit. An adopted sister-in -law said she heard the Browns-Squealers game was going to have a seasoned, veteran ref squad there, and some NFL officials may be there.
Way too late- you let it get out of hand by favoring the Steelers all these years.
I have the over\under on ejections in the game at 2-1\2.
For sure the game will be very tightly officiated....
Been reported Cal.... The Browns- Steelers get Clay Martin's crew. Clay has 5 seasons of experience as a ref, and everyone else has at least 4 years on the job. FWIW, lives in Oklahoma and is a HS basketball coach. Doubtless the NFL Ref job pays a lot better.
Martin's 2019 NFL officiating crew consists of umpire Fred Bryan, down judge Jerod Phillips, line judge Gary Arthur, field judge Nate Jones, side judge Greg Gautreaux, back judge Greg Wilson, replay official Tom Sifferman, and replay assistant Gavin Anderson.
OTOH, as usual, the Patriots get multi SB ref Tony Corriente's crew. For future reference, there's a site Football zebras- that posts this stuff....
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Freddie owning it right now. Wearing the "Pittsburgh Started It" shirt. LOVE IT.
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