Freddie fired

hoorta

@lodilobo said:

I questioned the decision to make Kitchens the HC, but thought it might work out. He might turn into a decent HC at some point, but he has a lot to learn and he doesn't appear to be a quick learner. He may not be the only problem with this team right now, but he is definitely the biggest problem. My choice would have been to keep Greg Williams as HC for a couple seasons at least, to see how things worked. Dorsey, obviously did not think Williams was the best choice. ...probably due to his abrasive personality. I guess they figured we've already seen enough arguing / fighting within. I hate to see another coaching change so quick, but what other choice do we have? He's killing the season.

Your POV may be that Freddie is the biggest problem, but forget it. He's Dorsey's hand picked HC. And he's going to get at least until the end of the season, regardless of how far south it goes.

It's never happened to my knowledge that a new HC has been fired after just eight games, and its not happening now.

Bob806

@hoorta said:

Your POV may be that Freddie is the biggest problem, but forget it. He's Dorsey's hand picked HC. And he's going to get at least until the end of the season, regardless of how far south it goes.

It's never happened to my knowledge that a new HC has been fired after just eight games, and its not happening now.

Yep, and it shouldn't happen.

He does have a lot to prove. But looking at the last 2 games in particular, the Browns played better overall, but shot themselves in the foot with penalties and ultimately turnovers.

The penalties, if not drastically reduced, could be Freddy's downfall.

Me- I'm sick of crappy football. But what's yet another "wait til next year" at this point? So effing used to it....

lodilobo

@hoorta said:

Your POV may be that Freddie is the biggest problem, but forget it. He's Dorsey's hand picked HC. And he's going to get at least until the end of the season, regardless of how far south it goes.

It's never happened to my knowledge that a new HC has been fired after just eight games, and its not happening now.

I don't want to see him get fired in mid season either. I really would like to keep him here for at least 3 seasons, hoping he will learn from his mistakes. I just haven't seen any indication that he will become an adequate HC, but it really is too soon, I guess. It's just a shame to waste all the talent with a coach who can't use it. I'm not so sure he was " hand picked" by Dorsey. Dorsey doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to stake his reputation on a RB coach becoming a good HC.

jiggins7919

Hardly anybody wants another mid-season coaching change, and we're going to avoid it this year. Starting with a beat down this weekend.

Freddie has been bad, I admit it, but it's time to get better. Even if we don't realize our full potential, we simply MUST end the second half of the season well.

hoorta

@jiggins7919 said:

Hardly anybody wants another mid-season coaching change, and we're going to avoid it this year. Starting with a beat down this weekend.

Freddie has been bad, I admit it, but it's time to get better. Even if we don't realize our full potential, we simply MUST end the second half of the season well.

6-3 gets us to .500, 7 -2 may be good enough to get in the playoffs. Underperforming? Sure, by some folks standards. The problem as I've said elsewhere is the "big names" we've brought in- and you know who they are, have yet to produce what their reputation coming in says they should be doing. That can't all be blamed on bad coaching.

jrb12711

There's no excuse to not win this weekend, period. We're better overall at every position group and as noted they're starting an inexperienced back-up.

I'm hoping we see that corner turned with Kitchens. It's fair to say despite his short comings that 4 of our 5 losses are against top 10 teams in the NFL (ESPN rankings are 1,2, 6, and 10). We have a lot of winnable games ahead.

jiggins7919

@hoorta said:

6-3 gets us to .500, 7 -2 may be good enough to get in the playoffs. Underperforming? Sure, by some folks standards. The problem as I've said elsewhere is the "big names" we've brought in- and you know who they are, have yet to produce what their reputation coming in says they should be doing. That can't all be blamed on bad coaching.

And that's just it, there's no WAY all of our team's follies can be blamed on coaching. I mean, our star RB had the freaking ball kicked out of his hands by our star LG and it rolled directly to the defense for a TD. That's not coaching. The part that IS coaching is difficult to identify, but many fans seem to be unhappy with the challenges, the clock management, the playcalling, and the personnel decisions. I get WHY the coaches want Calloway out there, but why isn't Higgins playing more? Higgins comes in and Baker immediately throws a beautiful DOWN THE FIELD dime to him, and Higgins catches it. Unfortunately we got screwed by a bad call, but they happen. The point is, Higgins came into the game, and Baker immediately found him. Twice in a row, basically.

So yes, the coach has to answer for a lot, and he doesn't do himself ANY favors with his press conferences. He sounds EXACTLY like Hue Jackson, and that's not a good thing at all. Gregg Williams had the best pressers I've seen for a Browns coach, but I guess they're going to be good when you actually get a few W's.

Bad coaching also can't account for OBJ leading our team in dropped passes. That's something I don't understand, and it HAS to get ironed out. Bad coaching can't account for our star RB fumbling 3 times in two games, when he didn't fumble ONCE all year as a rookie. Alas, Nick Chubb basically doomed our team in both games, and that's just how it goes sometimes. Chubb is my favorite player on the team, and he's an absolute BEAST. It breaks my heart that he fumbled three times because I can visually see how much it hurts him.

The Gipper

@canton-dawg said:

Denver is supposed to be starting their 2nd string QB Brandon Allen.

If someone has an early line on the game, please post it.

I think he is actually like 3rd string. Isn't Drew Lock 2d string...and he is hurt too?

Besides, if you got rid of Freddie, who would take over? Wilks? He was dumped after one year in AZ....and has his hands full getting this defense to play better. Monken? Is he any better/more experienced than Freddie?

I see no one on the list of coaches for this team with any kind of HC experience. At least last year we had Williams. In some other years we had guys like Al Saunders and the like to take over if necessary. And bringing someone in from the outside as an interim HC? NOT feasible imo.

Dutch Oven

I have a real problem with the idea that Freddie is getting fired during his first season as head coach.

But Dorsey has shown that he is not afraid to dump people who have not performed like he thought they would, or who are not a good fit for the Browns by trading away two of HIS 2018 draft picks in Corbett and Avery already.

Canton Dawg

@the-gipper said:

I think he is actually like 3rd string. Isn't Drew Lock 2d string...and he is hurt too?

Besides, if you got rid of Freddie, who would take over? Wilks? He was dumped after one year in AZ....and has his hands full getting this defense to play better. Monken? Is he any better/more experienced than Freddie?

I see no one on the list of coaches for this team with any kind of HC experience. At least last year we had Williams. In some other years we had guys like Al Saunders and the like to take over if necessary. And bringing someone in from the outside as an interim HC? NOT feasible imo.

I'm not a fan of firing a head coach midway through the season, it almost never works out well.

According to the Broncos depth chart, there's only 2 QB's listed on the 53 man roster. . .

https://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart

hoorta

@canton-dawg said:

I'm not a fan of firing a head coach midway through the season, it almost never works out well.

According to the Broncos depth chart, there's only 2 QB's listed on the 53 man roster. . .

https://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart

Wow, the Browns have no excuses if they can't shut down that sorry crew.

Only guy I've heard of that's playing is Lindsay.

medicineman

The way we been playing I don't see us beating anybody. 3 plays 3 turnovers? Also how many of or wr have caught a TD pass this season? 1 that is it. the other 4 have been to TE. OBJ has not shown any signs of greatness and Jarvis is like a shell of what he was last season. Callaway not the same player as a year ago and Higgins? Consider him GONE. Perriman was way better last year than any of the players we have now, Fells the TE we let go has put up decent numbers for a back up TE, Is Freddie to blame for the downfall? Maybe to some point but the players are not the same. They lost something in the offseason and need to find whatever that is and find it fast. we played 1 really good game and that was against the Ravens, The Jets game we should of won by more

The Gipper

@canton-dawg said:

I'm not a fan of firing a head coach midway through the season, it almost never works out well.

According to the Broncos depth chart, there's only 2 QB's listed on the 53 man roster. . .

https://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart

OK, I see that Drew Locke is actually on injured reserve. I did not hear about that.

And Flacco could end up on injured reserve with that herniated disk in his neck.....which could even jeopardize his career:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/broncos-qb-joe-flacco-has-herniated-disk-in-neck-season-possibly-career-in-jeopardy/ar-AAJvizJ

Rookie Brett Rypien is also on their PS....so he may have to be activated.

The Gipper

And check out Allen PFR site.........it shows that he apparently has not yet thrown a pass in the NFL.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleBr00.htm

Which, of course, means that he will give the Browns all kinds of trouble.

The Gipper

@hoorta said:

Wow, the Browns have no excuses if they can't shut down that sorry crew.

Only guy I've heard of that's playing is Lindsay.

Heuerman was a pretty darn good TE at Ohio State. So I at least have heard of him.

But, your point is taken.

stillmotion

@the-gipper said:

Heuerman was a pretty darn good TE at Ohio State. So I at least have heard of him.

But, your point is taken.

Sutton is damn good. But yeah, hopefully we bring our A-game and the O-Line does work.

DieHardBrownsFan

@medicineman said:

The way we been playing I don't see us beating anybody. 3 plays 3 turnovers? Also how many of or wr have caught a TD pass this season? 1 that is it. the other 4 have been to TE. OBJ has not shown any signs of greatness and Jarvis is like a shell of what he was last season. Callaway not the same player as a year ago and Higgins? Consider him GONE. Perriman was way better last year than any of the players we have now, Fells the TE we let go has put up decent numbers for a back up TE, Is Freddie to blame for the downfall? Maybe to some point but the players are not the same. They lost something in the offseason and need to find whatever that is and find it fast. we played 1 really good game and that was against the Ravens, The Jets game we should of won by more

Image result for person hanging themselves gif

Tour2ma

Freddie ain't going anywhere soon.

Orion

@dutch-oven said:

This team is a disorganized mess.

It falls on the head coach.

Yup.

Let's take a look at some things.

Baker: Last year Freddie took over and asked the offense what they liked in the playbook and what plays they ran well. He then had a whittled down playbook. - THIS year, Baker had Freddie's playbook to learn, and has more responsibility at the LOS. Not as easy as it was last year. More on his plate. Not much preseason game time. Virtually none with OBJ. - Regular season starts and his OL struggles (as some of us thought it might). That spooks a QB. Even when the OL play improves a little bit, it's still in your mind who you have playing the tackle positions....while your schedule puts you up against teams with strong defensive fronts. - Your timing with the receivers isn't spot on because it's a new playbook and you had virtually no preseason game time with them.

OBJ - New playbook, new team. Doesn't show up for anything that's voluntary. He & Landry do virtually nothing but ride bikes for most of OTA's and TC.

Now as the season starts, In no time flat, we lose Higgins and Njoku. And, of course, Callaway is suspended. That leaves Baker with Landry (the bike rider...but at least he has a little familiarity with) and OBJ (bike rider, who Baker has virtually NO familiarity with), and Ratley (who's always 'been' injured, so Baker has virtually no familiarity with).

......and oh BTW, go out and play some of the best teams in the league. AND, we're going to constantly put Baker behind the chains with 18 penalties one game, 13 in another, sprinkle in officiating...........etc.

-------------

Once I saw how good SanFran was playing, I had us pegged for 2-5 going into the Denver game. And that's what we are. - I also had the team pegged for 'coming together' during the back half of the schedule. Admittedly, with Freddie stating that the players have to fix the penalties themselves, it doesn't leave ya with the warm fuzzies. But it's a learning curve for Freddie too.

Let's see if the back half of the schedule cools off the 'hot mess'.

BaconHound

@westside-steve said:

Partially because established and winning head coaches might just possibly have another job already?

Plus it's usually a sucker's bet to think that picking an apple off a winning coaches tree, like Belichick, doesn't often work out. Like hiring Bill Wyman to play bass and wondering why your band isn't as good as the Rolling Stones.

Adam gase? Bruce Arians? Just for the record if we were not worried that Freddie would have gone elsewhere I'd have liked to see him stay at OC and keep Gregg Williams as head coach.

WSS

Mike McCarthy would've been a nice name to hear. Josh Mcdaniel would be a nice get. Or how about that Browns assistant that fans booed and claimed sucked, you know the guy who's undefeated in the Bay area. No one expects John Harbaugh to jump at the chance of coaching the Browns but Matt Patricia seems more competent than a guy who was only an offensive coordinator for 8 games at any level, ever.