Calfox's annual first pre-combine stupid mock draft
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1 patty cake session from Chase Young doesn't change my opinion that he is not the ideal #2 overall pick for the Washington Redskins in lieu of the best LT right now. I'm not going to re-type what I already wrote. If he played for Michigan - this wouldn't even be a debate.
Anyway, as we see in the picture #37 will give a quick chip (if necessary) prior to heading out to the flats for his QB. Meanwhile #76 at LG looks like his left foot is getting tangled up with the LT's foot to the extent he's about to trip and fall down. This is a double team set up for either side of Tackle that Young is only going to play patty cake with. Keep in mind what the picture is showing you. Center blocking NT, RG locked up on DT and RT locked up edge rusher. Young looks like the only defender lined up left of Center.
When I watch guys like Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Nick Bosa and JJ Watt at the NFL level - they all have shown they could collapse an entire side of a protection, which ain't happening in your picture. These guys all had a power and leverage that made them more than a beat someone with speed only type. White was 320 lbs and rumored to run 4.7 forties back when that was unheard of to go with his unparalleled strength and power. All of them have faced what you see in the picture above and whipped it's asss with a blend of superior leverage, ideal power/strength and quicks....
JJ ain't 'collapsing" a triple team either. I know, I've seen it thrown his way and I'm sure a few of our resident Texan-living fans here have as well.
Either way, he's BPA for the skins BUT - I do agree with you, they would be much better suited to address their porous Oline. Especially given their investment into a promising young Haskins.
JJ ain't 'collapsing" a triple team either. I know, I've seen it thrown his way and I'm sure a few of our resident Texan-living fans here have as well.
Either way, he's BPA for the skins BUT - I do agree with you, they would be much better suited to address their porous Oline. Especially given their investment into a promising young Haskins.
There is no triple team in your picture. It's a pass protection scheme where there's only 1 pass rusher (Chase) pictured to the left of Center. In fact, can you even see any other defenders on that side? If so, your buddy Flugel needs new contact lenses. Considering it's only a 3 step drop from QB - my guess is the WB/FB in formation is more to bait/leverage Young toward the OG so the QB has an additional option to pass to the WB in uncontested space if he's not comfortable throwing to the Receiver running over the middle in the picture.
It's not a triple team when only 1 blocker engages a DL with a wing-back lined up to the left/outside and behind the LT (still 1 yard behind the LT's left foot in the picture) meaning the chip isn't even required if Young chooses the inside path. The LG is actually planting his left forearm into the back of his teammate playing LT while I see his left foot right behind the LT's right foot. If I had to guess, this isn't a cup protection seeing where the RG and RT are in the picture. It looks more like a Reach (on the right side of Center) and Hinge (on the left side) pass pro. If 3 guys ever block 1 guy at once, someone needs an id ten t form which looks like this if we use all caps and a digit. ID10T. Again, only the LT has engaged Young in your picture so we're going to disagree about a triple team.
I can assure you JJ Watt rarely ever gets stopped by RBs trying to chip him. He's also beaten a ton of double teams from Guard-Tackle tandems upfront prior to running right through RBs on the way to countless sacks/QB hurries. Like I already showed, the last 3 opponents of Young's college career combined to hold him to 0 sacks. The year before, 7 opponents were able to do this. I don't see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith here. All that being the case, coupled with Washington's current situation I already covered - the pick of the litter at LT is Washington's BPA at #2.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
If it looks like a triple team, and walks like a triple team, and quacks like a triple team.....well....
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JJ ain't 'collapsing" a triple team either. I know, I've seen it thrown his way and I'm sure a few of our resident Texan-living fans here have as well.
Either way, he's BPA for the skins BUT - I do agree with you, they would be much better suited to address their porous Oline. Especially given their investment into a promising young Haskins.
There is no triple team in your picture. It's a pass protection scheme where there's only 1 pass rusher (Chase) pictured to the left of Center. In fact, can you even see any other defenders on that side? If so, your buddy Flugel needs new contact lenses. Considering it's only a 3 step drop from QB - my guess is the WB/FB in formation is more to bait/leverage Young toward the OG so the QB has an additional option to pass to the WB in uncontested space if he's not comfortable throwing to the Receiver running over the middle in the picture.
It's not a triple team when only 1 blocker engages a DL with a wing-back lined up to the left/outside and behind the LT (still 1 yard behind the LT's left foot in the picture) meaning the chip isn't even required if Young chooses the inside path. The LG is actually planting his left forearm into the back of his teammate playing LT while I see his left foot right behind the LT's right foot. If I had to guess, this isn't a cup protection seeing where the RG and RT are in the picture. It looks more like a Reach (on the right side of Center) and Hinge (on the left side) pass pro. If 3 guys ever block 1 guy at once, someone needs an id ten t form which looks like this if we use all caps and a digit. ID10T. Again, only the LT has engaged Young in your picture so we're going to disagree about a triple team.
I can assure you JJ Watt rarely ever gets stopped by RBs trying to chip him. He's also beaten a ton of double teams from Guard-Tackle tandems upfront prior to running right through RBs on the way to countless sacks/QB hurries. Like I already showed, the last 3 opponents of Young's college career combined to hold him to 0 sacks. The year before, 7 opponents were able to do this. I don't see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith here. All that being the case, coupled with Washington's current situation I already covered - the pick of the litter at LT is Washington's BPA at #2.
There is no triple team in your picture.
Scooby Doo says, "Rhere's rot?"
From his look and lean the Badger's LG clearly has only one assignment here... be ready for any inside move from Chase. Ditto the RB to the outside. Plus while Biadesz is on great shape in his assignment, the same can't be said for either on the right side... although I've no idea what's going on at RG (spin move?).
Add it up and it says triple team to me...
That said...
I see WSH trading down. Both MIA and OAK... errr... LV have multiple 1sts to offer and interest in a QB... an interest they share with CAR and LAC. WSH can trade down and still get a quality OT and at least one more stater.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
JJ ain't 'collapsing" a triple team either. I know, I've seen it thrown his way and I'm sure a few of our resident Texan-living fans here have as well.
Either way, he's BPA for the skins BUT - I do agree with you, they would be much better suited to address their porous Oline. Especially given their investment into a promising young Haskins.
There is no triple team in your picture. It's a pass protection scheme where there's only 1 pass rusher (Chase) pictured to the left of Center. In fact, can you even see any other defenders on that side? If so, your buddy Flugel needs new contact lenses. Considering it's only a 3 step drop from QB - my guess is the WB/FB in formation is more to bait/leverage Young toward the OG so the QB has an additional option to pass to the WB in uncontested space if he's not comfortable throwing to the Receiver running over the middle in the picture.
It's not a triple team when only 1 blocker engages a DL with a wing-back lined up to the left/outside and behind the LT (still 1 yard behind the LT's left foot in the picture) meaning the chip isn't even required if Young chooses the inside path. The LG is actually planting his left forearm into the back of his teammate playing LT while I see his left foot right behind the LT's right foot. If I had to guess, this isn't a cup protection seeing where the RG and RT are in the picture. It looks more like a Reach (on the right side of Center) and Hinge (on the left side) pass pro. If 3 guys ever block 1 guy at once, someone needs an id ten t form which looks like this if we use all caps and a digit. ID10T. Again, only the LT has engaged Young in your picture so we're going to disagree about a triple team.
I can assure you JJ Watt rarely ever gets stopped by RBs trying to chip him. He's also beaten a ton of double teams from Guard-Tackle tandems upfront prior to running right through RBs on the way to countless sacks/QB hurries. Like I already showed, the last 3 opponents of Young's college career combined to hold him to 0 sacks. The year before, 7 opponents were able to do this. I don't see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith here. All that being the case, coupled with Washington's current situation I already covered - the pick of the litter at LT is Washington's BPA at #2.
There is no triple team in your picture. It's a pass protection scheme where there's only 1 pass rusher (Chase) pictured to the left of Center. In fact, can you even see any other defenders on that side? If so, your buddy Flugel needs new contact lenses. Considering it's only a 3 step drop from QB - my guess is the WB/FB in formation is more to bait/leverage Young toward the OG so the QB has an additional option to pass to the WB in uncontested space if he's not comfortable throwing to the Receiver running over the middle in the picture.
It's not a triple team when only 1 blocker engages a DL with a wing-back lined up to the left/outside and behind the LT (still 1 yard behind the LT's left foot in the picture) meaning the chip isn't even required if Young chooses the inside path. The LG is actually planting his left forearm into the back of his teammate playing LT while I see his left foot right behind the LT's right foot. If I had to guess, this isn't a cup protection seeing where the RG and RT are in the picture. It looks more like a Reach (on the right side of Center) and Hinge (on the left side) pass pro. If 3 guys ever block 1 guy at once, someone needs an id ten t form which looks like this if we use all caps and a digit. ID10T. Again, only the LT has engaged Young in your picture so we're going to disagree about a triple team.
I can assure you JJ Watt rarely ever gets stopped by RBs trying to chip him. He's also beaten a ton of double teams from Guard-Tackle tandems upfront prior to running right through RBs on the way to countless sacks/QB hurries. Like I already showed, the last 3 opponents of Young's college career combined to hold him to 0 sacks. The year before, 7 opponents were able to do this. I don't see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith here. All that being the case, coupled with Washington's current situation I already covered - the pick of the litter at LT is Washington's BPA at #2.
No, it's very much a triple team. The nose was shaded 1i pre-snap and the tackle oversteps to prevent Chase from taking the edge easily... you know, kind of like what he did to the tune of 4 sacks against them just 6 games prior. That is mostly because tOSU runs an over front (3 tech to the strength) The guard isn't and never even so much looked for any additional pressure up the middle or some type of delay and the FB is on a chip and release. Depends on call vs pressure usually. Wisky is a team that likes to keep their backs in for pass pro even against dogs go.
Hell, I was feeling great and did some leg work for you. Check out the clip below and the time stamps.
@ 10 seconds
- 3 step drop - immediate double team
@ 28 seconds
- 3/5 step drop - guard shades his way, tackle almost false starts just to get into his drop too hurried to not get beat to the edge. Generates the pressure that leads to an errant throw.
@ 55 seconds- play action with a grip and rip sight adjustment 3 step if not there. singled up again on quick drops.
@ 1:10
- 5 step drop, balls gone at the top of drop. possible throw away? singled up
@ 1:27
- singled on the edge from a 2 pt wins inside with power and forces the pressure
@ 2:10
- speed and power to the inside but Wisky has a little HB screen setup so everyone is released. Singled up for the sake of scheme again.
@ 2:23- 3 step drop, ball out offense. Taking no chances on 3rd down with honest 5 and 7 step drops like before.
@ 2:28- Designed rollout away from Chase. Please note where the eyes of the backside guard and tackle are.
@ 2:57
- 4th down and would you notice they ran that jet away from Chase...?
@ 3:07- misdirection sweep ran towards Young's side. He sniffs it out, takes away the perimeter and forces the ball carrier inside to awaiting pursuit.
@ 3:19- 3 step drop to the far hash. Guard can't help inside because he's dealing with pressure from LB. Check out where his eyes went first though and he was almost fucked picking up the backer.
@ 3:25
- TE chip as Weakside Edge. Designed T-E stunt that Cone does a good job getting out of. Another double being thrown his way.
@ 4:19
- No TE chip, 3 step drop to the boundary slant.
1/3 of the way in you'll see a theme. Ball out of hand offense. Chase is doubled almost always and when he isn't there have been zero throws
so far off a deeper drop. No 7 step shots and even the 5 step drops are shady.@ 4:44
- Singled up again. 3 step drop. Beats the tackle around the edge and almost gets the ball but it leaves Cone's hand literally a half second before
his arm arrives and makes contact with the QB's shoulder. Either way, that's a pressure registered.@ 5:40
- another sweep ran to the boundary. AWAY from Young.
@ 5:51
- playing as a 'closed' end. Please note where the eyes of the backside tackle and guard are, how their stance and heads are. Hell, WATCH THE CENTER.
He literally lets Devon Hamilton completely go to the front side guard in favor of getting ready for an inside move from Young.I was going to type out the entire film but at this point I would hope you would see what I'm attempting to convey. Wisconsin altered their entire offensive gameplan to deal with Chase and Chase Young only. They weren't worried about throwing at a pair of 1st round corners, they just didn't want to give up 4 sacks and a handful of TFL's to a single player again. Even a good portion of those split zones they ran didn't go his way. The kid is a force, it's that simple.
But to essentially call what you see here pattycake is absurd. He didn't have to register a sack to make a difference. He drew numbers that allowed a great deal of 1 on 1 blocking for the rest of the line. They just weren't ready to capitalize on it being that, well, they're not all #2 overall picks. Young was routinely doubled and on rare occasion, got a late eyed triple team thrown his way combined with forcing the Badgers to go away from what they love - play action, deeper drops and forcing the ball vertically setup by their running game.
That is the respect paid when you are that great of a player.
To cap this off, I still rather agree with you. I think the Skins' might be better off going with a trade down or addressing their incredibly porous Oline. The defense is solid enough, they need some offensive firepower to backup their young QB and WR combo.
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There is no triple team in your picture.
Scooby Doo says, "Rhere's rot?"
From his look and lean the Badger's LG clearly has only one assignment here... be ready for any inside move from Chase. Ditto the RB to the outside. Plus while Biadesz is on great shape in his assignment, the same can't be said for either on the right side... although I've no idea what's going on at RG (spin move?).
Add it up and it says triple team to me...
That said...
I see WSH trading down. Both MIA and OAK... errr... LV have multiple 1sts to offer and interest in a QB... an interest they share with CAR and LAC. WSH can trade down and still get a quality OT and at least one more stater.
Scooby Doo says, "Rhere's rot?"
From his look and lean the Badger's LG clearly has only one assignment here... be ready for any inside move from Chase. Ditto the RB to the outside. Plus while Biadesz is on great shape in his assignment, the same can't be said for either on the right side... although I've no idea what's going on at RG (spin move?).
Add it up and it says triple team to me...
Thanks for your insights so I'll reply to you and Tia together here. What you said above is exactly what I already said. If he goes inside - there's a double team with the LG (and that WB/RB heads off to the flat or short hook zone). If he goes outside, there's a chip from the WB/RB. So far, we're on the same page...
2 ifs don't add up to a triple team though - they make a pass pro scheme aimed at protecting areas/gaps/QB 1-2 yards behind the LOS with the QB in a 3 step drop/quick throw. Consequently, there's only 1 Badger pictured having immediate contact with Young and it sure looks like Young is the one initiating that contact.
If this was a true double team, the Inside Guy is supposed to be the post man (LG) and the outside guy (LT) is the drive man; but it's a PASS play - so we see 3 guys hinging off the blindside of QB 1-2 yards behind the line of scrimmage in a pass pro... The 1st steps of LG and Wing back are both toward the LT sealing off area/space in between. What we don't know is if a 2nd or 3rd blocker is ever even engaged in contact. Let's not make this sound like all 3 guys flew off the ball as a designated point of attack to try to remove and pulverize Young in a running game. Above all, 3 step drops are quick passes so we're looking at a pass pro scheme instead of 3 guys blocking Young. I'd be interested in seeing the rest of that play; because there's some interesting stuff taking place with the right foot of LT and left foot of LG.
I made a point that Young didn't have any sacks in his last 3 games (Michigan, Wisconsin in the Big 10 Championship, and Clemson) and there were 7 games in 2018 where he didn't have any. On a board full of Ohio State fans (including myself), my questioning if Young deserves to be the #2 overall pick in this draft (especially for the Redskins for the reasons I mentioned earlier in the thread) was going to be challenged and unpopular. I like your point about about Washington trading down.
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There is no triple team in your picture. It's a pass protection scheme where there's only 1 pass rusher (Chase) pictured to the left of Center. In fact, can you even see any other defenders on that side? If so, your buddy Flugel needs new contact lenses. Considering it's only a 3 step drop from QB - my guess is the WB/FB in formation is more to bait/leverage Young toward the OG so the QB has an additional option to pass to the WB in uncontested space if he's not comfortable throwing to the Receiver running over the middle in the picture.
It's not a triple team when only 1 blocker engages a DL with a wing-back lined up to the left/outside and behind the LT (still 1 yard behind the LT's left foot in the picture) meaning the chip isn't even required if Young chooses the inside path. The LG is actually planting his left forearm into the back of his teammate playing LT while I see his left foot right behind the LT's right foot. If I had to guess, this isn't a cup protection seeing where the RG and RT are in the picture. It looks more like a Reach (on the right side of Center) and Hinge (on the left side) pass pro. If 3 guys ever block 1 guy at once, someone needs an id ten t form which looks like this if we use all caps and a digit. ID10T. Again, only the LT has engaged Young in your picture so we're going to disagree about a triple team.
I can assure you JJ Watt rarely ever gets stopped by RBs trying to chip him. He's also beaten a ton of double teams from Guard-Tackle tandems upfront prior to running right through RBs on the way to countless sacks/QB hurries. Like I already showed, the last 3 opponents of Young's college career combined to hold him to 0 sacks. The year before, 7 opponents were able to do this. I don't see the next Reggie White or Bruce Smith here. All that being the case, coupled with Washington's current situation I already covered - the pick of the litter at LT is Washington's BPA at #2.
No, it's very much a triple team. The nose was shaded 1i pre-snap and the tackle oversteps to prevent Chase from taking the edge easily... you know, kind of like what he did to the tune of 4 sacks against them just 6 games prior. That is mostly because tOSU runs an over front (3 tech to the strength) The guard isn't and never even so much looked for any additional pressure up the middle or some type of delay and the FB is on a chip and release. Depends on call vs pressure usually. Wisky is a team that likes to keep their backs in for pass pro even against dogs go.
Hell, I was feeling great and did some leg work for you. Check out the clip below and the time stamps.
@ 10 seconds
- 3 step drop - immediate double team
@ 28 seconds
- 3/5 step drop - guard shades his way, tackle almost false starts just to get into his drop too hurried to not get beat to the edge. Generates the pressure that leads to an errant throw.
@ 55 seconds- play action with a grip and rip sight adjustment 3 step if not there. singled up again on quick drops.
@ 1:10
- 5 step drop, balls gone at the top of drop. possible throw away? singled up
@ 1:27
- singled on the edge from a 2 pt wins inside with power and forces the pressure
@ 2:10
- speed and power to the inside but Wisky has a little HB screen setup so everyone is released. Singled up for the sake of scheme again.
@ 2:23- 3 step drop, ball out offense. Taking no chances on 3rd down with honest 5 and 7 step drops like before.
@ 2:28- Designed rollout away from Chase. Please note where the eyes of the backside guard and tackle are.
@ 2:57
- 4th down and would you notice they ran that jet away from Chase...?
@ 3:07- misdirection sweep ran towards Young's side. He sniffs it out, takes away the perimeter and forces the ball carrier inside to awaiting pursuit.
@ 3:19- 3 step drop to the far hash. Guard can't help inside because he's dealing with pressure from LB. Check out where his eyes went first though and he was almost fucked picking up the backer.
@ 3:25
- TE chip as Weakside Edge. Designed T-E stunt that Cone does a good job getting out of. Another double being thrown his way.
@ 4:19
- No TE chip, 3 step drop to the boundary slant.
1/3 of the way in you'll see a theme. Ball out of hand offense. Chase is doubled almost always and when he isn't there have been zero throws
so far off a deeper drop. No 7 step shots and even the 5 step drops are shady.@ 4:44
- Singled up again. 3 step drop. Beats the tackle around the edge and almost gets the ball but it leaves Cone's hand literally a half second before
his arm arrives and makes contact with the QB's shoulder. Either way, that's a pressure registered.@ 5:40
- another sweep ran to the boundary. AWAY from Young.
@ 5:51
- playing as a 'closed' end. Please note where the eyes of the backside tackle and guard are, how their stance and heads are. Hell, WATCH THE CENTER.
He literally lets Devon Hamilton completely go to the front side guard in favor of getting ready for an inside move from Young.I was going to type out the entire film but at this point I would hope you would see what I'm attempting to convey. Wisconsin altered their entire offensive gameplan to deal with Chase and Chase Young only. They weren't worried about throwing at a pair of 1st round corners, they just didn't want to give up 4 sacks and a handful of TFL's to a single player again. Even a good portion of those split zones they ran didn't go his way. The kid is a force, it's that simple.
But to essentially call what you see here pattycake is absurd. He didn't have to register a sack to make a difference. He drew numbers that allowed a great deal of 1 on 1 blocking for the rest of the line. They just weren't ready to capitalize on it being that, well, they're not all #2 overall picks. Young was routinely doubled and on rare occasion, got a late eyed triple team thrown his way combined with forcing the Badgers to go away from what they love - play action, deeper drops and forcing the ball vertically setup by their running game.
That is the respect paid when you are that great of a player.
To cap this off, I still rather agree with you. I think the Skins' might be better off going with a trade down or addressing their incredibly porous Oline. The defense is solid enough, they need some offensive firepower to backup their young QB and WR combo.
@ 10 seconds
- 3 step drop - immediate double team
The kid is a force, it's that simple.
But to essentially call what you see here pattycake is absurd. He didn't have to register a sack to make a difference. He drew numbers that allowed a great deal of 1 on 1 blocking for the rest of the line. They just weren't ready to capitalize on it being that, well, they're not all #2 overall picks. Young was routinely doubled and on rare occasion, got a late eyed triple team thrown his way combined with forcing the Badgers to go away from what they love - play action, deeper drops and forcing the ball vertically setup by their running game.
That is the respect paid when you are that great of a player.
To cap this off, I still rather agree with you. I think the Skins' might be better off going with a trade down or addressing their incredibly porous Oline. The defense is solid enough, they need some offensive firepower to backup their young QB and WR combo.
Thanks Tia! I agree teams had to game plan for him and he is a force. No argument. You did a really good job explaining your pov and backing it with video here so I'll forgive that picture you shared...
Where I will argue is how great I see him being in at the next level, which takes us back to the context of my post before you replied to. He's great at this level but I'll stop shy of putting up at the #2 overall even if he's great at the Underwear Olympics this week. For example, in the 1st 2 minutes of your video, Wisconsin wasn't afraid to run at him or his side of the field at all. And when they did so they did it with success without needing double teams. Ohio State lined him up on both sides of the formation, so yes there was a WB/FB lined up to help with pass pro when he took an outside charge on the RT in the play you mentioned at 10 sec.
I'm not nearly as confident as you are that he will be the same type of force Nick Bosa is against the run at the next level to justify the #2 overall slot/talent. I think his pass rush skills make him deserving of an elite round 1 spot but not up as high as #2 IMO. That said, he's going to have to get used to getting chipped and seeing those 3 step drop quickie passes that keep some QBs hassle-free at the next level. The question I have is how well does he defend the run especially when it comes right at him. We shall see...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
If it looks like a triple team, and walks like a triple team, and quacks like a triple team.....well....
If it looks like a triple team, and walks like a triple team, and quacks like a triple team.....well....
Thanks for the AFLAC commercial.
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@ 10 seconds
- 3 step drop - immediate double team
The kid is a force, it's that simple.
But to essentially call what you see here pattycake is absurd. He didn't have to register a sack to make a difference. He drew numbers that allowed a great deal of 1 on 1 blocking for the rest of the line. They just weren't ready to capitalize on it being that, well, they're not all #2 overall picks. Young was routinely doubled and on rare occasion, got a late eyed triple team thrown his way combined with forcing the Badgers to go away from what they love - play action, deeper drops and forcing the ball vertically setup by their running game.
That is the respect paid when you are that great of a player.
To cap this off, I still rather agree with you. I think the Skins' might be better off going with a trade down or addressing their incredibly porous Oline. The defense is solid enough, they need some offensive firepower to backup their young QB and WR combo.
Thanks Tia! I agree teams had to game plan for him and he is a force. No argument. You did a really good job explaining your pov and backing it with video here so I'll forgive that picture you shared...
Where I will argue is how great I see him being in at the next level, which takes us back to the context of my post before you replied to. He's great at this level but I'll stop shy of putting up at the #2 overall even if he's great at the Underwear Olympics this week. For example, in the 1st 2 minutes of your video, Wisconsin wasn't afraid to run at him or his side of the field at all. And when they did so they did it with success without needing double teams. Ohio State lined him up on both sides of the formation, so yes there was a WB/FB lined up to help with pass pro when he took an outside charge on the RT in the play you mentioned at 10 sec.
I'm not nearly as confident as you are that he will be the same type of force Nick Bosa is against the run at the next level to justify the #2 overall slot/talent. I think his pass rush skills make him deserving of an elite round 1 spot but not up as high as #2 IMO. That said, he's going to have to get used to getting chipped and seeing those 3 step drop quickie passes that keep some QBs hassle-free at the next level. The question I have is how well does he defend the run especially when it comes right at him. We shall see...
Thanks Tia! I agree teams had to game plan for him and he is a force. No argument. You did a really good job explaining your pov and backing it with video here so I'll forgive that picture you shared...
Where I will argue is how great I see him being in at the next level, which takes us back to the context of my post before you replied to. He's great at this level but I'll stop shy of putting up at the #2 overall even if he's great at the Underwear Olympics this week. For example, in the 1st 2 minutes of your video, Wisconsin wasn't afraid to run at him or his side of the field at all. And when they did so they did it with success without needing double teams. Ohio State lined him up on both sides of the formation, so yes there was a WB/FB lined up to help with pass pro when he took an outside charge on the RT in the play you mentioned at 10 sec.
I'm not nearly as confident as you are that he will be the same type of force Nick Bosa is against the run at the next level to justify the #2 overall slot/talent. I think his pass rush skills make him deserving of an elite round 1 spot but not up as high as #2 IMO. That said, he's going to have to get used to getting chipped and seeing those 3 step drop quickie passes that keep some QBs hassle-free at the next level. The question I have is how well does he defend the run especially when it comes right at him. We shall see...
I don't necessarily disagree with his defense of the run vs someone like Nick. Baby Bosa was/is great, much like Joey. Not so much because they're the "elite" athletes, but more to do with their technical prowess, strength, hand/feet/eye sync and shear motor. Both of them don't have the first step and length of Chase and they never will. So to that end you are correct. But they hold up better against the run for their own very distinct reasons that Chase doesn't necessarily have or has developed at this point.
As for Wisconsin running at him.... sure. They went his way on a few split zones and flashed a TE at him as well. Mostly because he's the weakside edge in an over front. He's on the field to be your primary pass rusher and the very nature of such a system and his alignment is designed to take advantage of speed. Speed to have the 3tech at strength, speed to shut down perimeter runs to that side, and speed off the backside edge that will frustrate pass pro and generally calls for additional attention. But open side runs do work when your backers don't fill and run force as consistently as they should. As a result, Chase can be put in some questionable spots or worse, he can put himself in a questionable spot by getting upfield too fast. It would do him well to work on keeping blockers at length, then stacking to shed. Which he did a few times, but not enough that I nor you would consider dominant in that aspect.
It's an admitted part of his game he needs to work on and coaches will make sure he does just that at the NFL. But he'll be drafted so high for one reason only - he's a screamer off the edge and those will always be at a premium in the NFL.
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Thanks Tia! I agree teams had to game plan for him and he is a force. No argument. You did a really good job explaining your pov and backing it with video here so I'll forgive that picture you shared...
Where I will argue is how great I see him being in at the next level, which takes us back to the context of my post before you replied to. He's great at this level but I'll stop shy of putting up at the #2 overall even if he's great at the Underwear Olympics this week. For example, in the 1st 2 minutes of your video, Wisconsin wasn't afraid to run at him or his side of the field at all. And when they did so they did it with success without needing double teams. Ohio State lined him up on both sides of the formation, so yes there was a WB/FB lined up to help with pass pro when he took an outside charge on the RT in the play you mentioned at 10 sec.
I'm not nearly as confident as you are that he will be the same type of force Nick Bosa is against the run at the next level to justify the #2 overall slot/talent. I think his pass rush skills make him deserving of an elite round 1 spot but not up as high as #2 IMO. That said, he's going to have to get used to getting chipped and seeing those 3 step drop quickie passes that keep some QBs hassle-free at the next level. The question I have is how well does he defend the run especially when it comes right at him. We shall see...
I don't necessarily disagree with his defense of the run vs someone like Nick. Baby Bosa was/is great, much like Joey. Not so much because they're the "elite" athletes, but more to do with their technical prowess, strength, hand/feet/eye sync and shear motor. Both of them don't have the first step and length of Chase and they never will. So to that end you are correct. But they hold up better against the run for their own very distinct reasons that Chase doesn't necessarily have or has developed at this point.
As for Wisconsin running at him.... sure. They went his way on a few split zones and flashed a TE at him as well. Mostly because he's the weakside edge in an over front. He's on the field to be your primary pass rusher and the very nature of such a system and his alignment is designed to take advantage of speed. Speed to have the 3tech at strength, speed to shut down perimeter runs to that side, and speed off the backside edge that will frustrate pass pro and generally calls for additional attention. But open side runs do work when your backers don't fill and run force as consistently as they should. As a result, Chase can be put in some questionable spots or worse, he can put himself in a questionable spot by getting upfield too fast. It would do him well to work on keeping blockers at length, then stacking to shed. Which he did a few times, but not enough that I nor you would consider dominant in that aspect.
It's an admitted part of his game he needs to work on and coaches will make sure he does just that at the NFL. But he'll be drafted so high for one reason only - he's a screamer off the edge and those will always be at a premium in the NFL.
It's an admitted part of his game he needs to work on and coaches will make sure he does just that at the NFL. But he'll be drafted so high for one reason only - he's a screamer off the edge and those will always be at a premium in the NFL.
How does Chase Young compare to Myles Garrett when he was entering the draft?
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Chase Young was singled up for half a season and teams paid dearly. In that time he was singled up most of those teams made a conscious effort to do three step drop ball out. The second half he was doubled and tripled...pockets were rolling away...again ball out quickly. Teams got an idea for a second to double him and run right at him, which he either made the play or stood the tackle up and the back is going East and west right away. Your best containment against him was a 3 and 10 type give up draw where he gets caught getting up field on a pass rush to get the QB.
Having religiously watched OSU for the past 20-25 years we haven’t had a defender demand that kind of respect EVER. Not Joey...Not Nick...maybe Big Daddy Wilkinson a little in the 90s.
Chase Young should be the first overall pick. The Bengals will probably go QB if they stay and I can’t fault them. But the Redskins are outta of their dang minds if they take one of these “good” tackle prospects ahead of Young.
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It's an admitted part of his game he needs to work on and coaches will make sure he does just that at the NFL. But he'll be drafted so high for one reason only - he's a screamer off the edge and those will always be at a premium in the NFL.
How does Chase Young compare to Myles Garrett when he was entering the draft?
How does Chase Young compare to Myles Garrett when he was entering the draft?
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
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How does Chase Young compare to Myles Garrett when he was entering the draft?
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
Agree.?
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How does Chase Young compare to Myles Garrett when he was entering the draft?
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
Pretty much the same take here...
I think the biggest difference is Chase coverts speed to power better. Plus he has more "hand skills"... is a better technician than Myles was going into the draft.
Myles' bend was and is superior. Coming out of TAMU he was essentially a one-trick pony... but what a trick...
Burst? Very hard call to make... I'll wait for the Combine.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
Pretty much the same take here...
I think the biggest difference is Chase coverts speed to power better. Plus he has more "hand skills"... is a better technician than Myles was going into the draft.
Myles' bend was and is superior. Coming out of TAMU he was essentially a one-trick pony... but what a trick...
Burst? Very hard call to make... I'll wait for the Combine.
Pretty much the same take here...
I think the biggest difference is Chase coverts speed to power better. Plus he has more "hand skills"... is a better technician than Myles was going into the draft.
Myles' bend was and is superior. Coming out of TAMU he was essentially a one-trick pony... but what a trick...
Burst? Very hard call to make... I'll wait for the Combine.
Huge credit to Larry Johnson. That man is a legend of a D-line coach. The amount of names he has put into the league..... lordy.
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How does Chase Young compare to Myles Garrett when he was entering the draft?
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
In other words, your buddy Flugel put his foot in his mouth again - which would have been fine if it didn't have a brand new Nike sneaker on it.
Having said that, I'd like to thank Tony Grossi for reminding me there's always someone ready and willing to be dumber.
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IMHO - physical dimensions won't be far off. Though I think that Chase's first step might be just a hair faster. Which should show up on the 10 & 20 yard split. And I think he has a stronger inside rip. But Myles seems to dip and bend around the edge just a notch better. He's a large guy that is naturally great at minimizing the contact area for tackles to land a punch like few human beings on Earth. Chase isn't quite to that level but that isn't to say he's poor at turning the corner either. We're talking about subtle differences at very high levels.
Both can get upfield too fast and take themselves out of a play. Myles did a better job the 1st half of this season playing with more discipline. I trust Chase will have it coached into him as well.
I mean, if it wasn't for Burrow - Chase would be going #1 overall. So there's that to consider as well.
In other words, your buddy Flugel put his foot in his mouth again - which would have been fine if it didn't have a brand new Nike sneaker on it.
Having said that, I'd like to thank Tony Grossi for reminding me there's always someone ready and willing to be dumber.
In other words, your buddy Flugel put his foot in his mouth again - which would have been fine if it didn't have a brand new Nike sneaker on it.
Having said that, I'd like to thank Tony Grossi for reminding me there's always someone ready and willing to be dumber.
Given the bulk of where Nike is manufactured, might be best to go get tested homie.
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In other words, your buddy Flugel put his foot in his mouth again - which would have been fine if it didn't have a brand new Nike sneaker on it.
Having said that, I'd like to thank Tony Grossi for reminding me there's always someone ready and willing to be dumber.
Given the bulk of where Nike is manufactured, might be best to go get tested homie.
Given the bulk of where Nike is manufactured, might be best to go get tested homie.
They make those in San Fran? (not that there's anything wrong with that).?
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They make those in San Fran? (not that there's anything wrong with that).?
Wuhan, China. Home of the Mexicanbeervirus.
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They make those in San Fran? (not that there's anything wrong with that).?
Yeah but they have a Chinatown. Close enough for my comfort.
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They make those in San Fran? (not that there's anything wrong with that).?
Yeah but they have a Chinatown. Close enough for my comfort.
Yeah but they have a Chinatown. Close enough for my comfort.
Cleveland has a Chinatown too. Though actually they call it Asia Town, as, I assume it takes in others besides Chinese: Vietnamese, Philipinos etc.
East of downtown along St. Clair.
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