Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland
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So, go find a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland. You can't.
Since you don't want a domed stadium, you are muddying the waters of this conversation to say that it is impossible to find anywhere in the city limits of a city that has lost well over half its population since 1950 by now saying that you would need a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
Since you don't want a domed stadium, you are muddying the waters of this conversation to say that it is impossible to find anywhere in the city limits of a city that has lost well over half its population since 1950 by now saying that you would need a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The City of Cleveland has poured quite a bit of $$ into downtown under the Frank Jackson regime. They've been ultra criticized for this, as the neighborhoods have been ignored, safety forces budgets slashed, snow plows under-maintained, etc.
So pardon the pun, but it's truly a "political football" that he (Jackson) will want to avoid. If Haslam wants a new home in time, he may turn to the Cuyahoga County Council instead.
I believe the Browns are locked into Berea through 2039. So there's plenty of time....
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I used to hate indoor football back when it was my dad's era of being a fan. Unfortunately, since it's become a passing league - here's what's been won in the Great Lakes regions while Cleveland never makes post seasons any more:
1 SB Championship in Chicago - although 85 was way before they made rules babying/favoring passers.
2 SB Championships in GB compared to how many they won in the 60s. The 1 SB they won with Aaron Rodgers as a Wild Card team that had to win 3 road games (inclusive of beating Atlanta in a dome) before beating the Cutler-less Bears in Chicago for the NFC Championship.
0 SBs in Detroit or as Lumberg used to call it "Detroilet"
0 Superbowls in Cleveland after being the last team to win the NFL Championship in 1964 before the name of it was changed to Superbowl the next year. If I'm off by a year Gipper will let me know...
0 Superbowl Ws for Minnesota
0 Superbowl Ws in Buffalo
0 Superbowl Ws for Cincy even though they're not on a Great Lake per say
Interesting... Like I've said before, I prefer cold weather football outdoors.
But I also understand that the city of Cleveland is possibly missing out on a lot of events - events that for example cold weather cities like Indianapolis or Minneapolis get - because they don't have a retractable dome football stadium.
Plus, it's about time Cleveland does something with their lakefront.
Interesting... Like I've said before, I prefer cold weather football outdoors.
But I also understand that the city of Cleveland is possibly missing out on a lot of events - events that for example cold weather cities like Indianapolis or Minneapolis get - because they don't have a retractable dome football stadium.
Plus, it's about time Cleveland does something with their lakefront.
I think the same. Question being if would they open the roof during cold (playoffs?) games...
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Another view from Terminal Tower:
Another view from Terminal Tower:
I remember Cleveland from the 50s and 60s when my aunt and uncle lived in Parma and many visits some by train up to Cleveland to watch the Indians. I always thought that it was a chopped up "busy" city by the lake but I was younger.
Cleveland was also based around industry and the rails that serviced them then add in the freeway network and the words "greenfield site" don't exactly pop up. Unless you bulldoze a few big neighborhoods for a stadium and parking a true Cleveland site might be very hard to do.
Cleveland in the 50s and 60s was one busy place !
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Another view from Terminal Tower:
I remember Cleveland from the 50s and 60s when my aunt and uncle lived in Parma and many visits some by train up to Cleveland to watch the Indians. I always thought that it was a chopped up "busy" city by the lake but I was younger.
Cleveland was also based around industry and the rails that serviced them then add in the freeway network and the words "greenfield site" don't exactly pop up. Unless you bulldoze a few big neighborhoods for a stadium and parking a true Cleveland site might be very hard to do.
Cleveland in the 50s and 60s was one busy place !
I remember Cleveland from the 50s and 60s when my aunt and uncle lived in Parma and many visits some by train up to Cleveland to watch the Indians. I always thought that it was a chopped up "busy" city by the lake but I was younger.
Cleveland was also based around industry and the rails that serviced them then add in the freeway network and the words "greenfield site" don't exactly pop up. Unless you bulldoze a few big neighborhoods for a stadium and parking a true Cleveland site might be very hard to do.
Cleveland in the 50s and 60s was one busy place !
Exactly. And where are you going to do that? In what they call Asia town?
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i know I love to golf when I have 4/5 hours on a weekend which is rare these days
Golf is only good if you have a bonus set aside for longest club throw after burning worms or nailing fish.???️
???
Golf is only good if you have a bonus set aside for longest club throw after burning worms or nailing fish.???️
???
I've never verified it, but I'm pretty sure I still hold the University of Dayton tennis team record for a racquet toss. Over two courts and a 20' tall pine tree. Needless to say I was more than slightly honked off. Little surprise my favorite tennis pro was John McEnroe. Besides being a leftie like me, we shared the same attitude, and even preferred the same racquet- a Wilson ProStaff.
Golf? Yeah, I wrapped a few clubs around trees. It's why I quit golf.
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Golf is only good if you have a bonus set aside for longest club throw after burning worms or nailing fish.???️
???
I've never verified it, but I'm pretty sure I still hold the University of Dayton tennis team record for a racquet toss. Over two courts and a 20' tall pine tree. Needless to say I was more than slightly honked off. Little surprise my favorite tennis pro was John McEnroe. Besides being a leftie like me, we shared the same attitude, and even preferred the same racquet- a Wilson ProStaff.
Golf? Yeah, I wrapped a few clubs around trees. It's why I quit golf.
I've never verified it, but I'm pretty sure I still hold the University of Dayton tennis team record for a racquet toss. Over two courts and a 20' tall pine tree. Needless to say I was more than slightly honked off. Little surprise my favorite tennis pro was John McEnroe. Besides being a leftie like me, we shared the same attitude, and even preferred the same racquet- a Wilson ProStaff.
Golf? Yeah, I wrapped a few clubs around trees. It's why I quit golf.
Interesting. I play with a Wilson Pro-Staff Lite racquetball racquet. Fortunately it has a sting that wraps around my wrist and I'm too cheap to risk breaking it by slamming a wall.?
EDIT: BTW the most frustrating thing that can happen to you in golf is a ball rollout from the cup whereas the greatest thing that can happen to you in RB is a ball rollout from the corners. LOL!?
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What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Almost always great weather. Big money, if you’re good and all the places they play are the top courses in the world
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Just saw on Cleveland.com. Some people want to put a outlet mall in the Muni lot.
LMAO
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Just saw on Cleveland.com. Some people want to put a outlet mall in the Muni lot.
LMAO
Just saw on Cleveland.com. Some people want to put a outlet mall in the Muni lot.
Sounds like free parking and a warm place to gather in December...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Almost always great weather. Big money, if you’re good and all the places they play are the top courses in the world
That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Almost always great weather. Big money, if you’re good and all the places they play are the top courses in the world
And you can play at an older age and not walk away from it crippled
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That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Almost always great weather. Big money, if you’re good and all the places they play are the top courses in the world
And you can play at an older age and not walk away from it crippled
And you can play at an older age and not walk away from it crippled
Plus there is an over 50 tour. Even easier courses on tropical islands.
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Just saw on Cleveland.com. Some people want to put a outlet mall in the Muni lot.
Sounds like free parking and a warm place to gather in December...
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I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Almost always great weather. Big money, if you’re good and all the places they play are the top courses in the world
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Just f'n shoot me. Hate that game. I like the one I'm still playing nearing 73 where a mishit can be the best shot of the day.?
This looks like a highlight on the rare occasions I tried this game in my 30's. They aren't tossing their clubs enough though.?
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So, go find a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland. You can't.
Since you don't want a domed stadium, you are muddying the waters of this conversation to say that it is impossible to find anywhere in the city limits of a city that has lost well over half its population since 1950 by now saying that you would need a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
Since you don't want a domed stadium, you are muddying the waters of this conversation to say that it is impossible to find anywhere in the city limits of a city that has lost well over half its population since 1950 by now saying that you would need a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
Gipper's cell phone has been invaded by crickets. We're sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
I love golfing. If I could be any pro athlete it would be golf, hands down.
Almost always great weather. Big money, if you’re good and all the places they play are the top courses in the world
That’s because the game is too hard and It takes way to long for them to be away from their phones
That or the millennials that would most likely take up golf are too busy paying off student loans that they most likely will be paying off until they die, and don't have tons of "fun" money to chase around a little white ball with a stick.
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Since you don't want a domed stadium, you are muddying the waters of this conversation to say that it is impossible to find anywhere in the city limits of a city that has lost well over half its population since 1950 by now saying that you would need a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
Gipper's cell phone has been invaded by crickets. We're sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.
Gipper's cell phone has been invaded by crickets. We're sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.
From what I have gathered - and anyone who can confirm or refute this please do - the ENTIRE Gateway complex takes up 27 acres.
That includes baseball park that originally sat 43,000, a 20,000 seat arena, a parking deck and all the land in-between.
But somehow the Browns would have to have 300 acres near or in downtown Cleveland?
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Is the Akron Zoo all that viable? It's a pretty good parcel ..50 acres. I am sure you could buy up 20 more. I don't like evoking immanent domain laws, but I am sure Akron would like the business and would do what is best over the long haul.
Medina county has several locations. Avon in Lorain country is pretty wide open in spots. The Atlanta Braves have a beautiful complex north of Atlanta.
That is the script teams want to follow. Own the land, lease to those wanting to be near by. Sure Mr. Marriott, I can land lease you 5 acres for 20 years with 5 year options after that to build a beautiful hotel. That is how you pay for the thing as a private development. A owner isn't going to simply build a stadium unless he or she has a way to make money on the deal. You guys aren't children or stupid. None of you are going to build a house that you aren't going to get your money plus some back. At least knowingly. They want it to be a gathering spot above the 8 crappy home gams a year. Make it the place people want to go year round.
Akron isn't the best example....Avon in Lorain county is where I would look. I see lots of land on 90 just past the Westlake line.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Is the Akron Zoo all that viable? It's a pretty good parcel ..50 acres. I am sure you could buy up 20 more. I don't like evoking immanent domain laws, but I am sure Akron would like the business and would do what is best over the long haul.
Medina county has several locations. Avon in Lorain country is pretty wide open in spots. The Atlanta Braves have a beautiful complex north of Atlanta.
That is the script teams want to follow. Own the land, lease to those wanting to be near by. Sure Mr. Marriott, I can land lease you 5 acres for 20 years with 5 year options after that to build a beautiful hotel. That is how you pay for the thing as a private development. A owner isn't going to simply build a stadium unless he or she has a way to make money on the deal. You guys aren't children or stupid. None of you are going to build a house that you aren't going to get your money plus some back. At least knowingly. They want it to be a gathering spot above the 8 crappy home gams a year. Make it the place people want to go year round.
Akron isn't the best example....Avon in Lorain county is where I would look. I see lots of land on 90 just past the Westlake line.
Akron isn't the best example....Avon in Lorain county is where I would look. I see lots of land on 90 just past the Westlake line.
Lorain County? Yikes.
At least the Cavs were smart enough to put their arena in the middle of nowhere centrally located between Cleveland and Akron.
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Gipper's cell phone has been invaded by crickets. We're sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.
From what I have gathered - and anyone who can confirm or refute this please do - the ENTIRE Gateway complex takes up 27 acres.
That includes baseball park that originally sat 43,000, a 20,000 seat arena, a parking deck and all the land in-between.
But somehow the Browns would have to have 300 acres near or in downtown Cleveland?
From what I have gathered - and anyone who can confirm or refute this please do - the ENTIRE Gateway complex takes up 27 acres.
That includes baseball park that originally sat 43,000, a 20,000 seat arena, a parking deck and all the land in-between.
But somehow the Browns would have to have 300 acres near or in downtown Cleveland?
I agree. To make it viable as a development for a owner financed deal, you are looking at 80 or so. You have to understand that is you move out to a somewhat remote location, you will need parking spots available.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Lorain County? Yikes.
At least the Cavs were smart enough to put their arena in the middle of nowhere centrally located between Cleveland and Akron.
Why? Avon Lake is Lorain county. That is maybe a 15-20 drive from downtown on I90
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