Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland
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They should put golf courses on cemeteries with a lot of open holes for graves or balls. Then I might be tempted to play.?
You are a sicko. Instead of sand traps a 6' deep hole and a ladder ?
You are a sicko. Instead of sand traps a 6' deep hole and a ladder ?
Just in case I brain the caddie with the thrown club if I miss a putt into a hole that big.?
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Just in case I brain the caddie with the thrown club if I miss a putt into a hole that big.?
Who uses a caddy anymore, unless you are a pro? Are there any golf courses around any more that even have caddies to carry your clubs for you? When I did play golf (in the 80s/90s), I never used a caddy, nor do I recall every playing at a course that offered the use of one. Even the private club I belonged to once upon a time.
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Not sure if they still do, but last time I was at Westwood CC in Rocky River, they still had caddies
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
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We have to face facts. The days of stadiums, unless they are iconic, don't last 60 years anymore. Even if iconic they get torn down. Old Tiger stadium...Yankee stadium was as iconic as it gets.
Stadiums these days have a 30 year shelf life if they were built on the cheap like ours.. Ours, which is far from iconic, is what, 21-22 years old? It's time to start thinking about it. From planning to development takes 5 years.
If you build a really nice development, you might be able to go 50 years,
1) We have to face facts. The days of stadiums, unless they are iconic, don't last 60 years anymore. Even if iconic they get torn down. Old Tiger stadium...Yankee stadium was as iconic as it gets.
2) Stadiums these days have a 30 year shelf life if they were built on the cheap like ours.. Ours, which is far from iconic, is what, 21-22 years old? It's time to start thinking about it. From planning to development takes 5 years.
3) If you build a really nice development, you might be able to go 50 years,
1) & 2) In most cases yes 'Peen- but not in every case!!! In baseball you have Fenway and Wrigley- both over 100 years old. 5 MLB stadiums in total over 50 years old. Soldier Field was built back in the 20s, before it was renovated. I already gave my 0.02 Arrowhead opened in 1972, and MHO is it's good for at least another 20 years.
3) I'll comment further on Gipper's post..
Just another thought on the Rodney Dangerfield's Caddyshack joke about the golf courses and cemeteries being a waste of good real estate they many years ago were located on the outskirts of towns away from everything.
What has happened over time is the cities, towns have grown out and around them particularly the golf courses which would make them the preferred location for a new stadium. Plus they would have the acreage needed for the stadium and adjacent buildings along with some parking. Might be cheaper than buying and demolishing blocks of housing.
Oh and I can't imagine what would be involved in relocating a cemetery, kind of like a bad zombie movie.
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Some of them (cemeteries) - you can't. For those who have never been- one of the most amazing cemeteries I've ever visited is smack in the middle of downtown Boston, surrounded by skyscrapers. The Granary Burying Ground. History? The final resting place of Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and Paul Revere among others. We have our own in Cleveland the Eire Street Cemetery.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
You and Ballpeen besides myself get it. You want a development like Kraft's Patriot Place. Hotel on site, maybe a movie megaplex, a bunch of restaurants & shops, and a king sized team shop.
HIghland Park golf course.....off I-271. Could look at that at that. Near the posh side of town: Beachwood, Shaker Hts. Pepper Pike etc.
Yup, saw that too Gip.
Regarding a racetrack- how about Northfield Park? Would the NFL tolerate a Casino on site? I can't tell whats just north of the racetrack though.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
We're just saying that model is going out of style if the owner wants to maximize his profit potential. Latest example is Kronke's SoFi stadium built away from LA on an old racetrack.
Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland. There's really no option in downtown Cleveland short of demolishing an entire neighborhood. We've already said it- find us a suitable location near downtown that's 1,500' X 1,500' that you can clear out, oh and have adequate traffic access to.
That link Gipper posted did have a very suitable location- Burke Lakefront Airport. But as the article pointed out, there's tons of government red tape involved to close a working airport.
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1) We have to face facts. The days of stadiums, unless they are iconic, don't last 60 years anymore. Even if iconic they get torn down. Old Tiger stadium...Yankee stadium was as iconic as it gets.
2) Stadiums these days have a 30 year shelf life if they were built on the cheap like ours.. Ours, which is far from iconic, is what, 21-22 years old? It's time to start thinking about it. From planning to development takes 5 years.
3) If you build a really nice development, you might be able to go 50 years,
1) & 2) In most cases yes 'Peen- but not in every case!!! In baseball you have Fenway and Wrigley- both over 100 years old. 5 MLB stadiums in total over 50 years old. Soldier Field was built back in the 20s, before it was renovated. I already gave my 0.02 Arrowhead opened in 1972, and MHO is it's good for at least another 20 years.
3) I'll comment further on Gipper's post..
Just another thought on the Rodney Dangerfield's Caddyshack joke about the golf courses and cemeteries being a waste of good real estate they many years ago were located on the outskirts of towns away from everything.
What has happened over time is the cities, towns have grown out and around them particularly the golf courses which would make them the preferred location for a new stadium. Plus they would have the acreage needed for the stadium and adjacent buildings along with some parking. Might be cheaper than buying and demolishing blocks of housing.
Oh and I can't imagine what would be involved in relocating a cemetery, kind of like a bad zombie movie.
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Some of them (cemeteries) - you can't. For those who have never been- one of the most amazing cemeteries I've ever visited is smack in the middle of downtown Boston, surrounded by skyscrapers. The Granary Burying Ground. History? The final resting place of Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and Paul Revere among others. We have our own in Cleveland the Eire Street Cemetery.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
You and Ballpeen besides myself get it. You want a development like Kraft's Patriot Place. Hotel on site, maybe a movie megaplex, a bunch of restaurants & shops, and a king sized team shop.
HIghland Park golf course.....off I-271. Could look at that at that. Near the posh side of town: Beachwood, Shaker Hts. Pepper Pike etc.
Yup, saw that too Gip.
Regarding a racetrack- how about Northfield Park? Would the NFL tolerate a Casino on site? I can't tell whats just north of the racetrack though.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
We're just saying that model is going out of style if the owner wants to maximize his profit potential. Latest example is Kronke's SoFi stadium built away from LA on an old racetrack.
Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland. There's really no option in downtown Cleveland short of demolishing an entire neighborhood. We've already said it- find us a suitable location near downtown that's 1,500' X 1,500' that you can clear out, oh and have adequate traffic access to.
That link Gipper posted did have a very suitable location- Burke Lakefront Airport. But as the article pointed out, there's tons of government red tape involved to close a working airport.
Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland.
Why did the Indianapolis Colts HAVE to build downtown?
What do you mean there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland?
The NFL model according to you and Gipper is to have 300 acres in the middle of nowhere with the exception of all the teams that have done exactly the opposite of that, two of those teams being the Vikings and Falcons, who opened their downtown, or near downtown domed stadiums in 2016 and 2017 respectively. .
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Not sure if they still do, but last time I was at Westwood CC in Rocky River, they still had caddies
Not sure if they still do, but last time I was at Westwood CC in Rocky River, they still had caddies
I hired caddies at Glen Eagles (Scotland) and Carnoustie. Well worth the splurge...
On this side of the pond used a caddy one time when I played Kirtland Country Club. My companies' President was a member. Really nice layout and very challenging.
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Just in case I brain the caddie with the thrown club if I miss a putt into a hole that big.?
Who uses a caddy anymore, unless you are a pro? Are there any golf courses around any more that even have caddies to carry your clubs for you? When I did play golf (in the 80s/90s), I never used a caddy, nor do I recall every playing at a course that offered the use of one. Even the private club I belonged to once upon a time.
Who uses a caddy anymore, unless you are a pro? Are there any golf courses around any more that even have caddies to carry your clubs for you? When I did play golf (in the 80s/90s), I never used a caddy, nor do I recall every playing at a course that offered the use of one. Even the private club I belonged to once upon a time.
We have a course in Ooltewah, just north of town where using a caddy is mandatory. The Honors Course. It's a little steep for my blood to be a member...$35,000 to join. Never asked my friends about the monthly. One did let out he was buying lunch because he was behind on his $4500 a year club dining fee. Each member has to spend $4500 a year in the dining room. Not just buying beers and things in the mens lounge. They maintain a good chef and staff. If they don't spend it, they get a bill for the unused portion. I do have several friends who are members so I get to play out there maybe 10 times a year. The recommended minimum tip to the caddy is $80 per bag.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I agree. To make it viable as a development for a owner financed deal, you are looking at 80 or so. You have to understand that is you move out to a somewhat remote location, you will need parking spots available.
And that is what they want. I read that Jerry charges $100 just to park at Cowboys games. And I think they get like 15,000 cars there. That is $1,500,000 in his pocket before you walk in the door to the stadium.
And that is what they want. I read that Jerry charges $100 just to park at Cowboys games. And I think they get like 15,000 cars there. That is $1,500,000 in his pocket before you walk in the door to the stadium.
I was just reading a Cowboys message board at it said $30-$60, though I am not sure it was in a premium lot next to the stadium. Some said if you can walk a mile or two it wasn't bad.
My wife doesn't like to walk far. When she comes I don't park in the flats for $15...I think it went up to that this past season. Just up top, at least early in the season I paid $50. It dropped to $40 later in the season. It had been $30 for years.
I read somewhere the Cowboys were getting $100 for the Superbowl...well, why not? Parking is probably relative to ticket prices. If you can really afford a ticket to the Superbowl, you can fork over another $100 to park the car.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
Not only that, if they financed the deal and has little to no public money involved, owners aren't stupid people. They are mega good at business.
They aren't going to risk several billion if there isn't a payback that makes sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Just in case I brain the caddie with the thrown club if I miss a putt into a hole that big.?
Who uses a caddy anymore, unless you are a pro? Are there any golf courses around any more that even have caddies to carry your clubs for you? When I did play golf (in the 80s/90s), I never used a caddy, nor do I recall every playing at a course that offered the use of one. Even the private club I belonged to once upon a time.
Who uses a caddy anymore, unless you are a pro? Are there any golf courses around any more that even have caddies to carry your clubs for you? When I did play golf (in the 80s/90s), I never used a caddy, nor do I recall every playing at a course that offered the use of one. Even the private club I belonged to once upon a time.
Trumpy does.
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1) We have to face facts. The days of stadiums, unless they are iconic, don't last 60 years anymore. Even if iconic they get torn down. Old Tiger stadium...Yankee stadium was as iconic as it gets.
2) Stadiums these days have a 30 year shelf life if they were built on the cheap like ours.. Ours, which is far from iconic, is what, 21-22 years old? It's time to start thinking about it. From planning to development takes 5 years.
3) If you build a really nice development, you might be able to go 50 years,
1) & 2) In most cases yes 'Peen- but not in every case!!! In baseball you have Fenway and Wrigley- both over 100 years old. 5 MLB stadiums in total over 50 years old. Soldier Field was built back in the 20s, before it was renovated. I already gave my 0.02 Arrowhead opened in 1972, and MHO is it's good for at least another 20 years.
3) I'll comment further on Gipper's post..
Just another thought on the Rodney Dangerfield's Caddyshack joke about the golf courses and cemeteries being a waste of good real estate they many years ago were located on the outskirts of towns away from everything.
What has happened over time is the cities, towns have grown out and around them particularly the golf courses which would make them the preferred location for a new stadium. Plus they would have the acreage needed for the stadium and adjacent buildings along with some parking. Might be cheaper than buying and demolishing blocks of housing.
Oh and I can't imagine what would be involved in relocating a cemetery, kind of like a bad zombie movie.
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Some of them (cemeteries) - you can't. For those who have never been- one of the most amazing cemeteries I've ever visited is smack in the middle of downtown Boston, surrounded by skyscrapers. The Granary Burying Ground. History? The final resting place of Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and Paul Revere among others. We have our own in Cleveland the Eire Street Cemetery.
How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
You and Ballpeen besides myself get it. You want a development like Kraft's Patriot Place. Hotel on site, maybe a movie megaplex, a bunch of restaurants & shops, and a king sized team shop.
HIghland Park golf course.....off I-271. Could look at that at that. Near the posh side of town: Beachwood, Shaker Hts. Pepper Pike etc.
Yup, saw that too Gip.
Regarding a racetrack- how about Northfield Park? Would the NFL tolerate a Casino on site? I can't tell whats just north of the racetrack though.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
We're just saying that model is going out of style if the owner wants to maximize his profit potential. Latest example is Kronke's SoFi stadium built away from LA on an old racetrack.
Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland. There's really no option in downtown Cleveland short of demolishing an entire neighborhood. We've already said it- find us a suitable location near downtown that's 1,500' X 1,500' that you can clear out, oh and have adequate traffic access to.
That link Gipper posted did have a very suitable location- Burke Lakefront Airport. But as the article pointed out, there's tons of government red tape involved to close a working airport.
1) & 2) In most cases yes 'Peen- but not in every case!!! In baseball you have Fenway and Wrigley- both over 100 years old. 5 MLB stadiums in total over 50 years old. Soldier Field was built back in the 20s, before it was renovated. I already gave my 0.02 Arrowhead opened in 1972, and MHO is it's good for at least another 20 years.
3) I'll comment further on Gipper's post..
Some of them (cemeteries) - you can't. For those who have never been- one of the most amazing cemeteries I've ever visited is smack in the middle of downtown Boston, surrounded by skyscrapers. The Granary Burying Ground. History? The final resting place of Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and Paul Revere among others. We have our own in Cleveland the Eire Street Cemetery.
You and Ballpeen besides myself get it. You want a development like Kraft's Patriot Place. Hotel on site, maybe a movie megaplex, a bunch of restaurants & shops, and a king sized team shop.
Yup, saw that too Gip.
Regarding a racetrack- how about Northfield Park? Would the NFL tolerate a Casino on site? I can't tell whats just north of the racetrack though.
We're just saying that model is going out of style if the owner wants to maximize his profit potential. Latest example is Kronke's SoFi stadium built away from LA on an old racetrack.
Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland. There's really no option in downtown Cleveland short of demolishing an entire neighborhood. We've already said it- find us a suitable location near downtown that's 1,500' X 1,500' that you can clear out, oh and have adequate traffic access to.
That link Gipper posted did have a very suitable location- Burke Lakefront Airport. But as the article pointed out, there's tons of government red tape involved to close a working airport.
I did say except for iconic places. I have been to both Wrigley and Fenway. I wouldn't want to see them torn down. The reality is besides the history, they aren't good places to see a ball game. Even by the corner bags you are looking left or right. The further out the lines you get, the further left or right you are looking. The seats all face straight as built along the foul lines.
I attended a Browns game in Chicago. Courtney returned a fumble for a TD. We won the game, until we didn't in a OT pick 6 by Couch. Ols Solider was a great place, but then I had 2 seats on the 50, I think 14 rows off the field. Even there you couldn't see above the players heads on the sideline plays to your side. You know, a true bowl. Seats go from pretty close but pretty low to not so high but a mile away.
I don't mind staying where we are if we can get a retractable on the thing. As has been said, I don't think the footprint is large enough and getting the HVAC system would be almost impossible. You have to be able to cool it down in the summers for concerts and such, and you have to be able to heat it up once the temps start to look like 40's, or rain in any season..
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Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
Not only that, if they financed the deal and has little to no public money involved, owners aren't stupid people. They are mega good at business.
They aren't going to risk several billion if there isn't a payback that makes sense.
Not only that, if they financed the deal and has little to no public money involved, owners aren't stupid people. They are mega good at business.
They aren't going to risk several billion if there isn't a payback that makes sense.
I believe over half of the Vikings dome was paid by the owner.
Here's the deal: Some teams have built megaplexes outside the city they are named for, some have built new stadiums smack dab in the heart of their respective cities.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. The Browns could very well build a new (most likely domed) stadium inside the city limits, near or in downtown, or they could build outside the city... but I think that if the Haslams continuing owning the Browns, First Energy Stadium will not get another 20 years.
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Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland.
Why did the Indianapolis Colts HAVE to build downtown?
What do you mean there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland?
The NFL model according to you and Gipper is to have 300 acres in the middle of nowhere with the exception of all the teams that have done exactly the opposite of that, two of those teams being the Vikings and Falcons, who opened their downtown, or near downtown domed stadiums in 2016 and 2017 respectively. .
1) Why did the Indianapolis Colts HAVE to build downtown?
2) What do you mean there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland?
The NFL model according to you and Gipper is to have 300 acres in the middle of nowhere with the exception of all the teams that have done exactly the opposite of that, two of those teams being the Vikings and Falcons, who opened their downtown, or near downtown domed stadiums in 2016 and 2017 respectively. .
1) Because that's what the Colts wanted, and Irsay kicked in $100 million to sweeten the pot. In the 10 years since Lucas Oil was built the price ($720 million) of a new domed stadium has more than doubled- and along with it the requisite extortion of the paying public.
2) Are you just being dense? Other than they're all "downtown"? Any similarities end there. I'll leave it at that.
3) That "model" is what Kroenke is doing in LA, FYI. Following what Jones and Kraft have done to maximize their profits. I'm not saying we literally have to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses. Haslam isn't going anywhere for several years- until he's nearing the end of his lease anyway, so all this talk is way premature.
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I agree. To make it viable as a development for a owner financed deal, you are looking at 80 or so. You have to understand that is you move out to a somewhat remote location, you will need parking spots available.
And that is what they want. I read that Jerry charges $100 just to park at Cowboys games. And I think they get like 15,000 cars there. That is $1,500,000 in his pocket before you walk in the door to the stadium.
And that is what they want. I read that Jerry charges $100 just to park at Cowboys games. And I think they get like 15,000 cars there. That is $1,500,000 in his pocket before you walk in the door to the stadium.
As Ballpeen pointed out- I should have emphasized- the $100 parking was just for the Super Bowl. Regular season parking is considerably cheaper. Regarding actually getting a legit Super Bowl ticket at face value it's going to set you back a lot. For SB LV the original ticket price range was $950- $5,000.
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1) Why did the Indianapolis Colts HAVE to build downtown?
2) What do you mean there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland?
The NFL model according to you and Gipper is to have 300 acres in the middle of nowhere with the exception of all the teams that have done exactly the opposite of that, two of those teams being the Vikings and Falcons, who opened their downtown, or near downtown domed stadiums in 2016 and 2017 respectively. .
1) Because that's what the Colts wanted, and Irsay kicked in $100 million to sweeten the pot. In the 10 years since Lucas Oil was built the price ($720 million) of a new domed stadium has more than doubled- and along with it the requisite extortion of the paying public.
2) Are you just being dense? Other than they're all "downtown"? Any similarities end there. I'll leave it at that.
3) That "model" is what Kroenke is doing in LA, FYI. Following what Jones and Kraft have done to maximize their profits. I'm not saying we literally have to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses. Haslam isn't going anywhere for several years- until he's nearing the end of his lease anyway, so all this talk is way premature.
1) Because that's what the Colts wanted, and Irsay kicked in $100 million to sweeten the pot. In the 10 years since Lucas Oil was built the price ($720 million) of a new domed stadium has more than doubled- and along with it the requisite extortion of the paying public.
2) Are you just being dense? Other than they're all "downtown"? Any similarities end there. I'll leave it at that.
3) That "model" is what Kroenke is doing in LA, FYI. Following what Jones and Kraft have done to maximize their profits. I'm not saying we literally have to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses. Haslam isn't going anywhere for several years- until he's nearing the end of his lease anyway, so all this talk is way premature.
1. So the "model" is what Kroenke is doing, but numerous teams have recently done the total opposite.
2. Atlanta's downtown is so great, so much better than Cleveland's, that the Braves flew the coop and built their new stadium nowhere near it. They actually abandoned the great downtown of Atlanta, that Cleveland can't compare to.
3. See #1.
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Not only that, if they financed the deal and has little to no public money involved, owners aren't stupid people. They are mega good at business.
They aren't going to risk several billion if there isn't a payback that makes sense.
I believe over half of the Vikings dome was paid by the owner.
Here's the deal: Some teams have built megaplexes outside the city they are named for, some have built new stadiums smack dab in the heart of their respective cities.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. The Browns could very well build a new (most likely domed) stadium inside the city limits, near or in downtown, or they could build outside the city... but I think that if the Haslams continuing owning the Browns, First Energy Stadium will not get another 20 years.
I believe over half of the Vikings dome was paid by the owner.
Here's the deal: Some teams have built megaplexes outside the city they are named for, some have built new stadiums smack dab in the heart of their respective cities.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. The Browns could very well build a new (most likely domed) stadium inside the city limits, near or in downtown, or they could build outside the city... but I think that if the Haslams continuing owning the Browns, First Energy Stadium will not get another 20 years.
Hopefully- this link has what needs to be said at the present time. The Haslam's are thinking about it. Nothing needs to be decided for around 5 years, as the lease on First Energy is until 2029. LOL, and I might be dead by then.....
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How many acres does the entire Gateway complex take up, Gip? How many acres does Lucas Oil in Indianapolis take up? Seattle's CenturyLink? Detroit's Ford Field?
The answer is: I don't know, and it does not matter. If you have been reading the point is not how much ground those stadium's take up....but how much ground does the league and these owners WANT for their operations? They now want to follow the model set by the Cowboys, Patriots, 49ers, the LA teams, and others.....they want those like 300 acres so they can build a stadium, hotels, shops, parking etc. etc. so that they can garner big, big revenue from all that. They want to become real estate magnates, not just NFL team owners.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
Yeah, it does matter. It matters because apparently the owners of the Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons all built new stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside it, for nothing resembling your 300 acres or 200 acres.
No, it doesn't matter a cabbage fart what those guys did....IF the Haslam's and the league were to get what they want.
Now...IF there were to be a new stadium, could they settle for something less than what they want? Sure. They could look at scaling thing down, because they can't get what they want. But it has nothing to do with what these other teams do. The "other" teams that are the models for what NFL owners likely will want in the future are the ones I previously mentioned....Cowboys/Pats/LA etc......the ones with a lot of developable land.
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Indy HAD to build downtown. And please get real, there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland.
Why did the Indianapolis Colts HAVE to build downtown?
What do you mean there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland?
The NFL model according to you and Gipper is to have 300 acres in the middle of nowhere with the exception of all the teams that have done exactly the opposite of that, two of those teams being the Vikings and Falcons, who opened their downtown, or near downtown domed stadiums in 2016 and 2017 respectively. .
Why did the Indianapolis Colts HAVE to build downtown?
What do you mean there's no comparison between downtown Atlanta and Chicago to Cleveland?
The NFL model according to you and Gipper is to have 300 acres in the middle of nowhere with the exception of all the teams that have done exactly the opposite of that, two of those teams being the Vikings and Falcons, who opened their downtown, or near downtown domed stadiums in 2016 and 2017 respectively. .
Well...here is the reason: those facilities where highly subsidized by the local governments....who want the economic boost to their downtowns that the stadiums there give them.
But, the ones we are talking about are the privately funded ones, again, like those several that have been mentioned. Those 200-300 acres to develop means that those teams do not have to rely on government subsidies much at all, as they can develop those grounds and make them profit centers that help pay for the private financing of the stadiums.
I suppose if the Halsam's wanted vast government subsidies, they would have to "settle" for a smaller footprint, but they would have to give up on the idea of doing all the development they would likely want to do.
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