Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland
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Development under construction around MetLife stadium NY/NH
Development under construction around MetLife stadium NY/NH
Good pics, puts things in perspective.
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Oh, Gipper...
You're the only one here who thinks any of your arguments are reasonable.
Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
I rest my case.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Dallas. Tons of surrounding parking (for both stadiums)....tons of hotel/restaurants/commercial surrounding it.
Dallas. Tons of surrounding parking (for both stadiums)....tons of hotel/restaurants/commercial surrounding it.
You're missing a stadium.
Rangers are building a new, retractable roof home, Globe Life Field.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
I rest my case.
I rest my case.
And you lose your case, because: A. You didn't present any sort of a case to begin with. Snarky drive-by remarks do not a case make. B. You made no argument on either side of this stadium issue thing. You clearly have nothing to contribute. You certainly provided nothing to the discussion that Dutch and I were having. You have to score points to win. When your point score is exactly -0-....you can't win a thing. C. Your best option is to simply declare that you are bankrupt with no assets at your disposal.
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Dallas. Tons of surrounding parking (for both stadiums)....tons of hotel/restaurants/commercial surrounding it.
You're missing a stadium.
Rangers are building a new, retractable roof home, Globe Life Field.
You're missing a stadium.
Rangers are building a new, retractable roof home, Globe Life Field.
What is that in the upper right hand corner, labeled "Globe Life Park in Arlington"? Is that the "old" stadium (that isn't very old)? This was the best aerial view I could find that encompassed the entire area. If you have a more recent depiction of what is going on there, by all means, show us.
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Oh, Gipper...
You're the only one here who thinks any of your arguments are reasonable.
Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
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I would love to see the plans for the OTHER ideas they had for the stadium, because the rumor was that the one they picked was basically the most generic one.
In part true. We'll use a cookie cutter plan because the architectural guys already had something similar, and it cuts down on costs. BUT, the plan also was to keep the "feel" of the old stadium as much as possible, resulting in my major gripe about the place. The inadequate room behind the stands relative to any "modern" stadium. If you've ever been to Ford Field, Lucas Oil, or Paul Brown you know what I'm talking about.
If you couldn't figure out that was sarcasm, I honestly feel bad for you.
Jesus Christ, I would have paid money to see you in court. That had to be hilarious.
Sorry Dutch your sarcasm comes through very poorly the majority of the time. Gipper isn't the only one who doesn't see it.
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Ooh pictures!
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I rest my case.
And you lose your case, because: A. You didn't present any sort of a case to begin with. Snarky drive-by remarks do not a case make. B. You made no argument on either side of this stadium issue thing. You clearly have nothing to contribute. You certainly provided nothing to the discussion that Dutch and I were having. You have to score points to win. When your point score is exactly -0-....you can't win a thing. C. Your best option is to simply declare that you are bankrupt with no assets at your disposal.
And you lose your case, because: A. You didn't present any sort of a case to begin with. Snarky drive-by remarks do not a case make. B. You made no argument on either side of this stadium issue thing. You clearly have nothing to contribute. You certainly provided nothing to the discussion that Dutch and I were having. You have to score points to win. When your point score is exactly -0-....you can't win a thing. C. Your best option is to simply declare that you are bankrupt with no assets at your disposal.
Sorry... no directed verdicts in this court. Shall we let the BrownsBoard jury decide?
A&B... Been there... done that, Gip. Waste of time. Took you off "Ignore" as I think now I can limit when and how much I engage.
What is that in the upper right hand corner, labeled "Globe Life Park in Arlington"? Is that the "old" stadium (that isn't very old)? This was the best aerial view I could find that encompassed the entire area. If you have a more recent depiction of what is going on there, by all means, show us.
Yes... built in '94. Beautiful stadium... I've seen a couple games there. When wind blows ground level openings funnel air low into the stadium and lower seats are comfortable even on a hot, Irving afternoon. Problem is if there's no wind, then you roast. So here comes the roofed newbie.
No...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Minnesota Vikings
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Indianapolis Colts
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Atlanta Falcons
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Can we all agree that the Atlanta Falcons built one hideous stadium? ?
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Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
Don't obfuscate, as you're wont to do. Both me and Gip are totally aware you can build a modern stadium inside the city limits. However- that's no longer the paradigm of many of the billionaire owners out to maximize their profits. A couple hotels and a mall that you have complete financial control over next to your stadium? CA-CHING!!!!
We've also said other than Burke Airport, Highland Golf Course, and maybe a potential site in the Flats- that's about it in Cleveland. Unless you want to tear up entire neighborhoods to build a new stadium.
@dutch-oven said:
Looks like plenty of room to develop right around that stadium. but other than Minneapolis- and I've already said once- no problems building a Dome where the average December\ January temperatures can run 5-10 degrees during a game, or well below zero.
But Centurylink and Lucas Oil are already 10 or more years old- that's about 1\2 of their life expectancy on the owners greed-o-meter. You can say tearing down First Energy is a possibility- but go look at the aerial views. It's landlocked by train tracks and a freeway to the south, docks to the west, Great Lakes Science Center and the Rock HOF to the east. I doubt you could develop much- even if the stadium wasn't there. Of course, you could dump a cubic mile or so of landfill into the Lake, and build it out North as far as you like, assuming you wouldn't run afoul of the EPA.
For sure- whatever Haslam decides he wants- he's going to get. The Browns are far too valuable an asset to NE Ohio to let them move anywhere else. The Modell move taught the area a lesson that won't ever be forgotten.
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You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
Don't obfuscate, as you're wont to do. Both me and Gip are totally aware you can build a modern stadium inside the city limits. However- that's no longer the paradigm of many of the billionaire owners out to maximize their profits. A couple hotels and a mall that you have complete financial control over next to your stadium? CA-CHING!!!!
We've also said other than Burke Airport, Highland Golf Course, and maybe a potential site in the Flats- that's about it in Cleveland. Unless you want to tear up entire neighborhoods to build a new stadium.
@dutch-oven said:
Looks like plenty of room to develop right around that stadium. but other than Minneapolis- and I've already said once- no problems building a Dome where the average December\ January temperatures can run 5-10 degrees during a game, or well below zero.
But Centurylink and Lucas Oil are already 10 or more years old- that's about 1\2 of their life expectancy on the owners greed-o-meter. You can say tearing down First Energy is a possibility- but go look at the aerial views. It's landlocked by train tracks and a freeway to the south, docks to the west, Great Lakes Science Center and the Rock HOF to the east. I doubt you could develop much- even if the stadium wasn't there. Of course, you could dump a cubic mile or so of landfill into the Lake, and build it out North as far as you like, assuming you wouldn't run afoul of the EPA.
For sure- whatever Haslam decides he wants- he's going to get. The Browns are far too valuable an asset to NE Ohio to let them move anywhere else. The Modell move taught the area a lesson that won't ever be forgotten.
Both me and Gip are totally aware
Desperate times call for desperate measures, I suppose.
Doesn't get any more desperate than one hitching their debating wagon to ol' "Muddy Waters" Gipper… ?
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Surprised you even saw that comment.
Who among us here has won court cases with reasonable arguments? If you take off your bridal veil of prejudice, You clearly would see that my arguments are perfectly reasonable on this matter, because, in reality, from my experience, the best argument is that in which the full force of the facts are on your side. And the full force of the facts ARE on my side on this: Many of the NFL owners are going full guns on the mega-development model for their stadiums...they are going fully into wanting largely private/public partnership funded facilities that can put them into the category as "project developers" as it does "NFL team owners". And, as I said, where they have not done that, those owners were still far more willing to slurp from the public money trough than their brethren who had more foresight into the future.
You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
It wasn't as simple as that stupid. I never said that they don't count....I said what they did didn't matter for the future of the NFL ....that that was NOT the wave of the future or the model that the NFL is really wanting to follow going forward. That they do in fact want these megaplexes. Sorry if the subtleties of the language get missed by you.
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And you lose your case, because: A. You didn't present any sort of a case to begin with. Snarky drive-by remarks do not a case make. B. You made no argument on either side of this stadium issue thing. You clearly have nothing to contribute. You certainly provided nothing to the discussion that Dutch and I were having. You have to score points to win. When your point score is exactly -0-....you can't win a thing. C. Your best option is to simply declare that you are bankrupt with no assets at your disposal.
Sorry... no directed verdicts in this court. Shall we let the BrownsBoard jury decide?
A&B... Been there... done that, Gip. Waste of time. Took you off "Ignore" as I think now I can limit when and how much I engage.
What is that in the upper right hand corner, labeled "Globe Life Park in Arlington"? Is that the "old" stadium (that isn't very old)? This was the best aerial view I could find that encompassed the entire area. If you have a more recent depiction of what is going on there, by all means, show us.
Yes... built in '94. Beautiful stadium... I've seen a couple games there. When wind blows ground level openings funnel air low into the stadium and lower seats are comfortable even on a hot, Irving afternoon. Problem is if there's no wind, then you roast. So here comes the roofed newbie.
No...
Sorry... no directed verdicts in this court. Shall we let the BrownsBoard jury decide?
Then you know nothing about judges and juries. If you bring a case, then you have to make a case. If you don't make a case, then the judge can and will direct a verdict, and it will never make it to a jury.
A&B... Been there... done that, Gip. Waste of time. Took you off "Ignore" as I think now I can limit when and how much I engage.
Been there, done that? Other than that photo of the "Megaplex" surrounding AT&T...what did you been done there and did? Nada.
Yes... built in '94. Beautiful stadium... I've seen a couple games there. When wind blows ground level openings funnel air low into the stadium and lower seats are comfortable even on a hot, Irving afternoon. Problem is if there's no wind, then you roast. So here comes the roofed newbie.
I have not seen renditions of it.
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You: NFL teams demand 300 acres outside the city limits so they can build megaplexes
Me: Here's a list of NFL teams that have recently built stadiums in their respective downtowns, or just outside their respective downtowns, with nowhere near that much land.
You: THOSE TEAMS DON'T COUNT!
Don't obfuscate, as you're wont to do. Both me and Gip are totally aware you can build a modern stadium inside the city limits. However- that's no longer the paradigm of many of the billionaire owners out to maximize their profits. A couple hotels and a mall that you have complete financial control over next to your stadium? CA-CHING!!!!
We've also said other than Burke Airport, Highland Golf Course, and maybe a potential site in the Flats- that's about it in Cleveland. Unless you want to tear up entire neighborhoods to build a new stadium.
@dutch-oven said:
Looks like plenty of room to develop right around that stadium. but other than Minneapolis- and I've already said once- no problems building a Dome where the average December\ January temperatures can run 5-10 degrees during a game, or well below zero.
But Centurylink and Lucas Oil are already 10 or more years old- that's about 1\2 of their life expectancy on the owners greed-o-meter. You can say tearing down First Energy is a possibility- but go look at the aerial views. It's landlocked by train tracks and a freeway to the south, docks to the west, Great Lakes Science Center and the Rock HOF to the east. I doubt you could develop much- even if the stadium wasn't there. Of course, you could dump a cubic mile or so of landfill into the Lake, and build it out North as far as you like, assuming you wouldn't run afoul of the EPA.
For sure- whatever Haslam decides he wants- he's going to get. The Browns are far too valuable an asset to NE Ohio to let them move anywhere else. The Modell move taught the area a lesson that won't ever be forgotten.
Don't obfuscate, as you're wont to do. Both me and Gip are totally aware you can build a modern stadium inside the city limits. However- that's no longer the paradigm of many of the billionaire owners out to maximize their profits. A couple hotels and a mall that you have complete financial control over next to your stadium? CA-CHING!!!!
We've also said other than Burke Airport, Highland Golf Course, and maybe a potential site in the Flats- that's about it in Cleveland. Unless you want to tear up entire neighborhoods to build a new stadium.
Looks like plenty of room to develop right around that stadium. but other than Minneapolis- and I've already said once- no problems building a Dome where the average December\ January temperatures can run 5-10 degrees during a game, or well below zero.
But Centurylink and Lucas Oil are already 10 or more years old- that's about 1\2 of their life expectancy on the owners greed-o-meter. You can say tearing down First Energy is a possibility- but go look at the aerial views. It's landlocked by train tracks and a freeway to the south, docks to the west, Great Lakes Science Center and the Rock HOF to the east. I doubt you could develop much- even if the stadium wasn't there. Of course, you could dump a cubic mile or so of landfill into the Lake, and build it out North as far as you like, assuming you wouldn't run afoul of the EPA.
For sure- whatever Haslam decides he wants- he's going to get. The Browns are far too valuable an asset to NE Ohio to let them move anywhere else. The Modell move taught the area a lesson that won't ever be forgotten.
Precisely.
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Desperate times call for desperate measures, I suppose.
Doesn't get any more desperate than one hitching their debating wagon to ol' "Muddy Waters" Gipper… ?
He hitches his wagon to me because he recognizes that I am right on just about everything I am saying. And I know that you actually recognize that I am right about every thing I am saying, you just want to be contrarian about it. Or, you are like those guys at the turn of the 20th century who turned up their noses at those horseless carriage contraptions and said they would never be the wave of transportations future.
I mean...you CAN actually ride a horse between Akron and Cleveland along Bridal Trails that are in the Cuyahoga Valley, but you are, now, today, better of riding a motor vehicle on Interstate I-77 to get there. You can still build a stadium on a small downtown footprint of like 25 acres, if you want to still oil your saddle in your stall.
A few of the things you mention have been that...maybe. Although as H pointed out....seems like plenty of room to build around the Minnesota dome...and I know from being there that development can be had heading from there toward the river. Maybe not 200-300 acres, but there is a corridor there leading to the University.
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